Linda, I just want to note that you've become quite adept at naming some of these issues and recommending helpful solutions. Maybe not many reading this know what you mean by "energy loops" or "making them brittle," but I surely do, and have suffered much from these, at times. Your counsel is very good.

It seems there is a blessing coming out of that struggle you've been through!

Phil

I wanted to focus on something you said, which, from my own, very similar experiences, has had a powerful effect in my life.
You wrote a few posts ago:
Although some great Christian meditation teachers claim it really doesn't matter what 'mantra' we use in meditation, I do believe that the name 'Jesus' has a lot of power. When the disciples worked miracles they always said 'In the Name of Jesus be healed'. If that name did not have power, the disciples would not have found it necessary to use the Name of Jesus each time.
In the time of the original church (i.e., group of believers) the name of Christ alone was enough to empower them to perform apostolic ministry (there is a specific description of an apostle as very "power" oriented Christian). Yet, we use the name Jesus, spelled and pronounced that way. I may be getting into semantics, but, from my own experience, the original Hebrew name of Jesus, Yahshua, I've found significantly different results from my prayer life.

Also, with regards to the area of kundalini and the holy spirit, the supernatural is a very clear, verbal line to draw the difference between the action of the Holy Spirit and the natural workings of the Kundalini energies. In practical, spiritual warfare, however, the lines are much harder to see.

Linda wrote later,

I have to say that I had incredibly unimpleasant aftereffects after using certain mantras that had been recommended to me - another reason I decided to follow CHristianity exclusively.

From a linguistic/theological point of view, every word does contain within a certain spiritual power. Christ was the logos, the word of God. To repeat various words, whatever they are, focuses one's mind on that immaterial concept or mental reality. I agree with Linda, especially when I consider that every Christian truth has a similar falsehood to parallel it. Besdies, the epistles are almost explicitly clear when it comes to the importance of staying within the faith Christ has established through his death and resurrection.

Another thought about balancing energies is to have people you trust and feel confident are balanced, undestanding Christians pray by laying of hands. In every instance where Jesus healed someone and prayed for them, he physically touched them. A big point to take note of when try to balance one's self out. Others can help tremendously.

Phil, thanks for attempting to put a positive spin on what has been a hellish journey! It's been 8 years to the month since that ball of fire shot up from the base of my spin and completely put my life in turmoil. I still suffer daily physical discomfort, though certainly not some of the burning pain of the past, and occasional psychological and psychic discomfort and have had to completely change my life - both geographically and professionally. I found it impossible to continue living in New YOrk City, even after I became more balanced, for one thing. I crave quiet and nature, and can't be around any hustle-bustle for an extended period of time, or actually the darker energies bred of hatred and ambition in such a dense metropolitan area. (Not that there isn't plenty of love and positive energies, but I seem to still be too aware of the dark stuff.)

Will and others, in response to mantras versus Christian prayer. I combed the bible during a recent retreat at a convent, inadvertantly through the passages given to me from my spiritual director, looking for references to fire and the Holy Spirit, as a potential insight into kundalini and purification. My conclusion, in every passage, the fire never destroys or consumes, but purifies. I.e. the burning bush in Exodus, it was blazing, but wasn't consumed and certainly didn't consume Moses. (then again, I guess he had the "kundalini express" experience on that mountain.)But also say, in Acts, references in Isaiah, the holy spirit is a fire that doesn't destroy.

I realized my kundalini awakening, which had happened after I was exposed to the siddha energies of an Eastern mystic, was not of the Holy Spirit, because it was so destructive in nature. In fact, there's plenty of accounts in the professional Journal of Transformational Psychology of people who have received shaktiput and had kundalini awakenings that ended up in mental institutions for awhile. My awakening was so disruptive to my well being that I could have ended there as well if I hadn't had some wise counsel.

Consequently, the mantras and processes recommended in other traditions, I conclude, don't necessarily have any tie-in at all with the Holy Spirit. They are ways to manage denser, and can I be political incorrect and say, yes, perhaps demonic forces at play. Of course, I believe the Holy Spirit present in other paths, since there are many paths to God and other traditions may, as a Christian evangelist who has preached in many third world countries told me, "be of Jesus, but not know him." THat was his guidance in dealing, for example, with what he regarded as a holy Buddhist crowd he recently conducted a healing service for.

For those of you like Phil, I believe, who have had a kundalini experience and have only followed the Christian tradition, I have no understanding, since that wasn't how it happened to me. I can't say that I've met many charisamatics, despite even their ability to transmit lightening bolt type energy through their hands, who have had a real kundalini awakening, in the sense that they have pranic energy and awareness of anything beyond their 3-dimensional energy body. Certain eastern paths describe various levels of a kudanlini awakening. THe typical charismatic experience of feeling an electrical tingling through the body via the Holy Spirit is not a true kundalini awakening. In fact, its most likely a very balanced experience of the Holy SPirit gently moving through the physical and subtle energy bodies guarded by the seals over the chakras. Those seals have been proven in studies in energy management and are there to keep order in the mind/body/spirit system. Psychological, physcial and emotional problems and even genetics can damange those seals, which is why we've all witnessed the more negative aspects of the charmastic Christians - emotionalism, heightened sexuality, dominant personalities, etc. But this doens't mean they've had an actual kudanlini awakening. It depends on how far the energy has moved up their central channel and where it gets stuck. I would suggest that Benny Hinn, for example, has had a rising only as far to his third eye, at most. I watched him at one of his healing servcies more than once and there's so much psychic energy that runs through him and to the crowd. If if his crown chakra, or connection to God, were as open as he seems to want it to be, I don't think he would be able to physically handle the kind of electrical jolt true divine healing to such huge crowds would entail.

I talked about this with a priest who indeed has that kind of healing gift and only ministers one-on-one and to very small gatherings. His body shifts in reaction to the divine energy and he is truly healing people. But he also had a near death experience, which research has shown has a direct link to a kundalini awakening, and other energy experiences that suggest his body mind and spirit went through a complete transformation to carry God's holy energy. I
m not saying that the likes of a Benny Hinn isn't holy. He's just holy to a certain level and I don't think his healing charisma is linked to a full kundalini awakening.

Would love to hear any feedback on these thoughts.

Will and Linda, I have nothing but "Amens" to say in reply to your posts. Yes, the word is a powerful transmitter of energy, and a formative influence unto its integration. As you probably know, the Sanskrit language is a deliberate attempt to use sound to awaken and balance energy. One could probably do an interesting study to see how it and other languages have influenced psycho-spiritual development. The vowel-happy language of the Hawaiians in a case in point; I wonder how this affected their attitudes? Then there's the K-happy germanic languages. Etc.

Linda, once again you share a lot of wisdom concerning the relationship between the Holy Spirit, Kundalini, seals on chakras, and so forth. I do believe the Holy Spirit can vibrate the higher dimensions of our being without what we're calling a full-blown kundalini awakening taking place. Perhaps there are arousals, at times, like maybe in incidents of "slaying in the Spirit," but it seems that the lawfulness of being in most people experiencing this influences the energy to become dense again and the chakras be sealed.

Where I see a closer correspondence betweeh kundalini awakening and the Holy Spirit is in the contemplative traditions in Christianity. Without in any way discounting the influence of loving grace to draw one to rest, it's become my conviction that the deeper states of rest beyond words and images--the apophatic states, if you will--signal an opening of the third eye and even the crown. Awakening to the witness/true self/subject of attention happens for Christian contemplatives, but because we come to this place in the context of the formative influence of Christian faith, it is not a question of awakening to our divinity, but to a higher realm of the soul in its life in Christ. I could go on, but have already covered this to some extent in other threads.

Suffice it to say that most Christian charismatics, while certainly being open to the Spirit and manifesting an abundance of spiritual gifts and fruits, do not manifest many of the fruits of contemplative spirituality. I don't know Benny Hinn, but from what I've seen of him on T.V., I would say that applies to him as well as the EWTN gang and other high profile Catholic teachers on the life in the Spirit. This is not a deficiency on their part, of course, until they start throwing stones at Christian contemplatives who have another kind of witness and ministry in the Church.

The recent psychic disturbances in my life developed, as I said earlier, after a laying on of hands/slain in the Spirit type thing. The charismatic healer claimed to be using the energy of the Holy Spirit. As I said, this experience re-opened the channels to a non-Christian spiritual healer whose energies have become a satanic force in my life. On occasion, during or after an attack from the latter , the energy from the former had manifested itself in defence. I felt a bit like the ravaged turf of some 18th century battlefield(or, for that matter Soldierfield after a visit from the Redskins or whatever.)

The point is , the energy from the Christian healer is no longer manifesting itself, leaving me alone with old satanic britches and Jesus himself. This all leaves me thinking that the Charismatic energy is pranic and that these blokes like Benny Hinn are deluding themselves - thinking they are working with the Holy Spirit. Indeed one manifestation of this energy in my life recently brought a clairaudient hearing of a mass, intense glossalalia session into my consciousness. If this was the Holy Spirit, surely I would have been delivered. But still - old Satanic britches, me and Jesus. The Holy Spirit is more subtle than the subtlest subtle energy, less of a showman.

So in accordance with priya and Linda's advice, I have taken a more quiet, meditative approach. I surround my aura with Christ , I focus on Him in my heart and 3rd eye , I put on the armour of God etc. Old sat. brits. is still there but he is a bit quieter. He makes me feel more wobbly than worn out.

But then, suddenly - the return of old SB. And this, my friends, is how it happened ...

I was surrounding my aura with Christ when I stumbled upon the Auric loop being used to get me, get me , get me(imitation of the auric loop there).
I felt another personality getting upset as I focused on the loop but, instead of passing it by and asking Christ to bind it, I tried filling it with Christ's love. Silly!! Crash, bang,pow . I took a bit of a pounding that night(actually it was last night). So, we shall see what we shall see.

I apologise for my post being a bit of an autobiographical narrative instead of the metaphysical discussion you guys are engaging in. Perhaps I'll be able to join in once things simmer down a tad. Keep at it . By the way Linda, its my anniversary aswell soon - 7 years since the rocket was launched.

Go with Gad, y'all.

Stephen,

Feel for you re your experience last night I assume you long ago took the first steps after your kundalini went off years ago - i.e. medical diagnosis to make sure what you're dealing with is spiritual, indeed, and not a form of psychosis or physical that could be treated via traditional medication.) If so, then you're really surfing the lower astral planes in your subtle energy bodies and during those kinds of disturbances, all you can do is detach as much as possible, and pray for protection and guidance about letting go, letting God, and hoping that you'll get some insight into what will make it dissipate. The bad news is it could take years more. At the one and only Kundalini Research Network conference I ever attended (and met Phil, by the way, my first year into my own kundalini nightmare) I remember sitting in a small group discussion, about 30 people, talking about symptoms, episodes like the one you described, etc, and heard from people who had been experiencing some of these things off and on, and even steadily for over ten years. And there didn't seem to be more information around to help - I, for one, didn't find the particular experts that the KRN offered up at that time of much value and several, were in fact, pretty damaging in their advice.

I think displacement is probably the best way to go when you're dealing with such times - i.e. put on the holy music and meditate to shift your consciousness or go out and do something grounding (I think chopping down a tree at some of those points for me would have been the best recourse, if I'd been around the woods.) At times, I'd take mud baths, no kidding, to lower my energy or going swimming if an indoor pool wsa open since I was in the city. (Go and try to find a bottle mud in a NYC drugstore and see how much you have to pay. (Sedona mud cost as much as the imported stuff, I found). Anyway, hang in there.

Phil adn Stephen, re the slain in the spirit phenomena. That actually happened to me about two years ago - when to see Father D'Orio, a famous Catholic healing priest in Sturbridge, Mass. who conducts a healing mass that takes more than 5 hours. He's amazing, and hundreds turn up monthly. Anyway, I wanted to be in that healing energy and he also blesses and annoints individually after the service (we're talking hours here given the number of people). There's realy no time to talk to him, though some people whisper in his ear, but I stood there, saying nothing, just bent my head as he prayed over me, annointed me, and I turned to walk away and suddenly my knees gave out.

I don't remember feeling any kind of stirring at all in my body or higher chakras, as I might have expected, via the kundalini and didn't even feel like the kind of lightening bolt type energy I've experienced through some other Christian charismatics. It was a higher frequency than anything I'd experienced before and brought me into complete peace, at least for awhile, after about an hour of driving back into NYC, but certainly didn't result in a cure-all for my kundalini problems. Wish it had.

Also, I appreciate your insight re contemplative spirituality versus the more dramatic emotionalism of the charimatics I've observed.

My post no. 40 on 14/6 at 6AM:

WillSteele: Your reply on 17/6,10.35PM:

'I may be getting into semantics, but from my own experience, the original Hebrew name of Jesus, Jahshua, I've found significantly different results from my prayer life.'

What I was referring to, WillSteele, was the idea put forth by several Christian meditation teachers that it really doesn't matter whether one uses the word Love, God, Peace etc. as mantra in meditation. John Main recommends the mantra 'Maranatha'. My point was that when we use the Name of Jesus as our mantra, it is not just a word to still the mind, it is a Person we are then referring to, the Person who claimed that all power in Heaven and on Earth has been given to Him by God.

I personally feel it doesn't matter whether we say the name of Jesus in English, Hebrew or Aramaic (the language Jesus actually spoke), as long as we MEAN the same Person, that is Jesus. However in meditation it helps to use the form that ends with a vowel rather than a consonant as it is then easier to coordinate the mantra with the breathing, that's all. For example one can even choose from Yeshu/Jesu too. Surrender to Jesus and send out darts of longing love to the person of Jesus/Yeshu/Jesu/Yahshua, that is the main thing. The pronunciation of the Name is a non-essential as God and Jesus know exactly WHO we mean.

Linda, Stephen,

In my post on 14/6 at 6 AM, I wrote: Everyone may have as many sexual feelings as they like...'

Linda referred to 'heightened sexuality' in her post on 15/6, 10.40AM.

I want to make sure that I did not convey the impression that sexual obsession at a mental level was alright as long as one didn't give physical expression to it.

I have sometimes wondered why in the short TEN COMMANDMENTS (Exodus 20: 1-17), which summed up all the moral teaching, Commandment VII says 'Do not commit adultery' and Commandment X gives a variation on the same theme: 'Do not COVET your neighbour's wife'. To me Commandment VII refers to the action and Commandment X refers to the lustful thought that precedes the act of adultery. After all, the sin of adultery first begins as a thought. Jesus refers to it in the Sermon on the Mount (Mathew 5:27-30): 'But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart....'

What I was specifically referring to in that context was sexual thoughts coming up during meditation. It is only when we shut out the distractions of the outside world, seeking God in stillnes and silence, that we even become aware of the rich world of distractions that we have in our own minds. Sometimes we are exposed to horror movies on the screen of our minds, sometimes the mind chooses hard-core porno to keep us entertained. Sometimes the movie is on lofty themes or UFOs or celestial beings. The point to remember here however is that they are ALL just movies that serve only as distractions.

So when an adulterous/soft or hard-core porno/edifying love themes are being played out, remember to pull out the plug of the mental movie screen by ignoring it and returning to the mantra - calling out the Name of Jesus faithfully, lovingly with longing. Pray specifically for help if the going gets real tough.

I repeat, in dealing with lustful thoughts that surface against our will : Don't try to fight them because then one gets caught up in the struggle and all attention gets focussed on the struggle. The only way is to ignore them and keep on saying the mantra, calling out the Name of Jesus, faithfully, with love and longing, praying specifically for help if need be. Let the birds of lust fly over your head but don't let them build nests in your hair. Let them pass by your door, but don't go out and engage them in treacherous dialogue or invite them in to tea. Let them pass like clouds, be the mountain (never mind if the mountain gives the impression of shaking and trembling under the impact of the clouds).

Two great Christian meditation masters had this to say about INDULGING in sexual fantasies during meditation/prayer:

Don't waste your precious time during meditation/prayer entertaining yourself with a porno movie.

Don't make 'Scheisse' on your seat during the sacred time of meditation/prayer because that is what sexual fantasies/ sexual release outside a loving committed relationship is all about. When one lives out sexuality as a kind of release, then one is simply using another human being as a toilet.

Now a slight variation on the same topic:

There is another thing that I have been wondering about. The Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount refers specifically to the sin of adultery. There is also the instance of the woman caught in adultery and sentenced to death by stoning. So there is no doubt to me that the sin of adultery is considered very serious. But how come other sexual sins have not been specifically mentioned by Jesus or did He sum it all up by saying that an inappropriate thought was as serious as the inappropriate act itself? In the parable about the Samaritan woman by the well, who was living in an out of wed-lock situation with a man, I'm not clear about how exactly Jesus interpreted it. He did not say as He did to the adulterous woman 'Go and sin no more'. He simply made an observation that she was living with a man who was not her husband.

I'd like to emphasise that both Jesus and Paul lived in a time when on the one hand the cultural and social norms did not allow free social mixing among males and females but on the other, both sexes, especially the females were given in marriage as soon as she reached puberty. But in this age we are faced with a situation where on the one hand there is free mixing of the members of either sex and on the other hand the gap between attaining puberty and marriage has increased. One must keep that giant difference in mind while telling youngsters to remain chaste and pure into their thirties when the majority are actually ready for marriage.

With pedophilia, sexual addiction, homosexuality etc. being variations on the theme of 'heightened sexuality', a more detailed discussion on healthy sexuality would be appropriate. I'll leave it to others to initiate that discussion.

Something has gone wrong about the post number and date I quoted in my above replies. When I looked them up before writing my replies, it said post 40, and the date was June 14. Now it is showing something else! Please note: I'm referring to comments I wrote on this discussion, no matter what numbers and dates they end up having.

Oops, I removed this and posted it as a new topic.

priya, i can surely agree that our fundamental intent in prayer is more important than the actual words that we use. Only, I also agree with Will that the actual words we use do make a difference inasmuch as sound has a role in forming and communicating energy.

I also think you make some good points on dealing with sexual energy, especially in the context of meditation. Ultimately, I believe, it's all the same energy, only manifesting in different ways through the different chakras. Not getting caught up in sexual fantasies is indeed as important as not getting caught in other kinds of manifestations of energy during meditation. Gently allowing things to come and go as we maintain our focus on God in gentle, loving awareness seems the best way to deal with energy, in general. Sometimes, as Stephen is pointing out, almost anything seems to make things worse, and that's when it gets very tricky, and some of the suggestions Linda is making are also helpful, then.

Phil

Hi there Sue,

A lot of pyschic attacks aren't as extreme as the kind I have been experiencing. Generally, an attack happens as someone/thing attempts to invade your space. The energy field you have around you is occupied and this affects your consciousness, subtle energy body(which links to your nervous system) and if the attacker is given any access, your body.

(I hope you are familiar with terms like energy fields and subtle energy body - there are plenty of books and online info, if you are not, just be discerning.)

Don't worry. Fear is the only weapon malevolent forces really have and there is plenty of protection in the universe - Christ and His love are an endless source of protection - "Perfect love(His love) casts out fear."

My own attacks are so severe at times because, as I attempted to increase my energy, I allowed dangerous individuals(in sheeps clothing) to work with my energy. If you are always drained around people, there are plenty of exercises you can do to build up your energy and protect yourself. You aren't necessarily being "attacked" when you feel drained - perhaps you are just too open. Think about closing your energy centres down, surrounding yourself with the light of Christ. Look into tai chi, yoga - but be careful not to give yourself to any body and don't force things - make it easy on yourself. I did and some of the symptoms I experience are these:

I feel another presence invading my consciousness, sometimes my thoughts seem to mingle with someone else's.(Some , including the docs call this mental illness. I can't persuade them otherwise and this can be frustrating but the evidence I rely on convinces me that these are psychic attacks and that's all I need. I feel no need to convince others, although events of late have persuaded my family that my problems are spiritual, not medical. Besides, the drugs don't work!)

My nervous system is attacked, sometimes jolted as I relax to sleep, my dreams are invaded by satanic presences who almost seem to lie on top of me and hold me against my will. My will and empathic sensitivities are abused and held but I do not give myself to them. It is important to be strong and have faith.

As i say, don't worry, most attacks aren't as sever and perhaps you are just being drained of energy.Banish fear, be positive , relax and have faith. Linda's advice about this is valuable.
As is priya's about centring yourself with God.

A psychic attack is basically just an attack on your soul - which affects your mind and body. Some attacks aren't even meant . Some people just have a draining energy which seems like an attack even tho' they aren't aware of it. So surround yourself with loving, caring, creative people(easiser said than done.)

Hope this is helpful. all the best.

Stephen.

One more thing ,Sue .

Be careful when people talk about higher states of consciousness. Don't strive for it. Just focus on Jesus. It's more important to be grounded than to seek higher planes. Eternity will bring us to the highest plane of all in Him.
But as we do develop a greater understanding of God and ourselves there will be difficulties, not necessarily pyschic attacks , just the difficulties of living an everyday life with Christ as a focus.

I hope Linda reads this about having others work on your energy field and try to "fix" it. I've pretty much stayed away from this and it's still a rough ride, at times.

The best thing, as you're both noting, is to place yourself totally in the care of Jesus. Let Him be the one to balance your energy with the Spirit.

A few simple balancing exercises might also help, but listen to your inner senses about if this feels right for you.

Good sharing!

Phil,

Am indeed keeping up with the posts and think any energy healing work by outsiders (non Christian energy healers) is a bad idea for anyone, unless the person is praying over someone and a strong Christian with a healing charisma.

Stephen, I've had some of the same psychic attack experiences you wrote about. Re mental illness association, I think many mental illnesses involve a tear to the third eye/sixth/crown chakra, which is like having a torn screen to other dimensions. If there's a tear through trauma, spiritual abuse as you've mentioned, genetic, whatever, you can experience the lower astral dimensions - the demonic, more than even the higher. If medication doesn't help (and most medication along these lines closes down the third eye and associated glandular systems that support it), and if someone like you Stephen are assured that the cause is a spiritual imbalance, then the best you can do is live in both worlds and try not to get too paranoid in the process. Tilt your consciousness constantly towards the highest realm and protection.

When I was going through some of the worst of it in the very beginning of my kundalini awakening, I did end up under medical care, in fact, in a medical study at a leading hospital where I was treated as an outpatient for several months. The classic medication for treating psychotic and bipolar disorders really doens't cure anything, it just closes down the system and in my case, didn't do much for me at all. (And fortunately my symptoms were more of an emotional imbalance and odd physical symptoms, though I was hardly experiencing the horrible tremors, limbs out of control, brain dysfunctions, and huge emotional swings that might violence or paranoiathat some imbalanced kundalini have manifested as) THe doctors involved in the study were just starting to study the phenomena of vibrational medicine and loved hearing me describe how various medications were impacting my subtle energy bodies. I.e. some of the classic anti depressants made my feel like there was the equivalent of "silly puddy" over my third eye - which they medically explained as a result of the medication slowing down both the pituitary gland and my hormonal system. Another type of medical made me feel as if I was sort of walking around in a cotton ball - no kidding, explanation was that the medication slowed down all brain synapses (nerve linkage between cells) I felt as if I were in some kind of "grey" zone altered state. Some of this medication was so severe to my system, even in light dosages, that I was hardly functional. It was a complete nightmare and made me very sympathetic towards any one suffering from a mental illness, both what they live through in the illness as well as treatments prescribed (I can't imagine shock treatment i.e. film "Beautiful Mind!"). Even the MDs at the hospital told me if I could live through what was happening to me without the meds, which certainly don't cure anything, that I had a better chance of coming out of all of it.

Suffice it to say I didn't last long on any of the meds and none, not even light dosages of an anti-seizure medication, stopped the crazed flow of the pranic energy. I ended up going to a homeopathic whose patient load they were also studying, who had some solid recommendations, i.e. a kind of cream that contained a form of copper that I was supposed to rub over my body over certain chakra points that helped balance the energy flow. And also subtle body exercise to help the energy flow in a more balanced way. And unlike the classic medication, nothing he recommended made me sick.

I remember reading Ralph Waldo Emerson stating something to the effect that his "salvation" was his own business, in the sense that he couldn't depend on anyone else but him and God. I kind of relate to that in dealing with my kundalini experience. I went to a guru - supposed "kundalini expert" for advice and who claimed he could help balance out my energy and I was even worse after allowing him to "work on" my energy field, so much so that I've wanted to sue him for spiritual abuse. So Stephen, I really understand how you feel invaded by manipulative occultists. Advice I've gotten re a law suit from every evolved spiritual person I've talked to about it was forget it, and move on. But my anger is so great that I still want revenge and daily attempt to exercise forgiveness and self control, and we're talking years here.