The Kundalini Process: A Christian Understanding
Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality
- by Philip St. Romain
Paperback and digital editions
Hi Mary Sue, no I have not tried it. I looked it up on the internet to see what it is , and I seem to be doing a version of it on my own in my own way. And what I am doing so far seems to be working pretty good. My approach is more solving the mind thought habits part of Constitutional Homeopathy through meditation techniques, exercise, and diet change than using medicinal remedies to solve things. And I do admit that their approach would be simpler for the average person than my approach, because the average person doesn't have the meditation experience that I have and the years of introspection that I have gone through. Your suggestion Mary Sue is a good one though!
Hi hcb and you are very much welcome . Yes I have been "exactly" going through what you are going through. For years. And working your way out of what you are experiencing is very very difficult. The problem is that you are constantly thinking things that are making you very sick and the only way to solve it is to think about things that do not make you sick. And that is "extremely" hard to do . hcb my heart goes out to you and I wish that there was a way to help, but I have no idea what that help could be. All I can do is to just talk to you about what you would like to talk about, but the problem is that English is my only language so we would have a language barrier that would make that very difficult. So anyway I do love you!
First and foremost I am not a doctor... I am only sharing what worked for me. I never quite feinted from the syncope, though there were times I was very close. A few times where I had to pull off the road because the symptoms were so intense that I was very close to fainting.
For clarification... Diazepam vs Lorazepam...
Compared to similar drugs, Valium (diazepam) acts very quickly but can have interactions with other medicines. Ativan (lorazepam) is an effective medicine for occasional or short-term anxiety. It's less likely to have drug interactions, but more likely to cause withdrawal symptoms compared to similar drugs.
...for me, the problem was that 1) Valium didn't sit well with me and made symptoms worse, and 2) Atavan, while it helped, didn't persist in _preventing_ the syncope. It only helped when the syncope symptoms were escalating. I needed them not to occur at all.
Paxil and vasovagal syncope... references...
Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) have also been used to treat neurocardiogenic syncope. It's believed that these medications—including fluoxetine (Prozac, Sarafem), paroxetine (Paxil), and sertraline (Zoloft)—work by blocking the effect of serotonin in the development of bradycardia and hypotension.
Other such references can be found by Googling "Paxil and vasovagal syncope" and "how to get rid of vasovagal syncope" etc.
I do agree with Tucker in that it seems to be affected by persistent thoughts. However, there are also a number of triggers that can set it off in severe fashion (foods, allergies, stressors, etc.). A bland diet, no alcohol, and a relatively stress-free environment worked for Gopi Krishna. It helped me as well but wasn't/isn't realistic in my line of work. You might want to share the information with your doctor. I was so sensitive to it that I started with just 5mg, and worked my way up to 20mg (the 'therapeutic' dose). For me, it was like tossing a bucket of cool water on a fire. I've tried cycling down several times, the last time a few years ago. Even though I titrated very slowly (15 months), once I reached about 50% the symptoms started returning. I'll try again in a few years, maybe when I'm semi-retired, but the doc no longer asks me to cycle as he feels it may simply be chronic. I'm not so sure... but time will tell. I intend to adopt Gopi's method in earnest the next time I make the attempt when I can better control the circumstances of making a living
Peace, love, and light!
Les, I am in a totally non stressful environment, or other wise I couldn't do things the way I am doing them !
I've had some experience as a psychotherapist and I've seen many symptoms which were clearly caused by psychological forces, but may be interpreted as the results of kundalini activation. The only thing we can say is that only by hearing a set of symptoms we're never sure whether the cause is biological, psychological or spiritual, be it a severe headache or having visions, good or bad. As Phil said, it's best to do a good diagnosis, both medical and psychological, there is no need to be afraid. If no biology or psychology is involved, it should show up in the diagnostic results and then we can be sure that the problem is of a spiritual nature.
I'm a bit worried when I read about "diazepam" and "lorazepam". But both diazepam and lorazepam and all the other "zepams" you can encounter, are benzodiazepines. These are narcotics. Causing strong dependence pretty quickly. I usually forbid my patients using any of this stuff, if they want to be in a treatment with me, even though some psychiatrists and family doctors for some reasons prescribe those things. It's really playing with fire. In severe anxiety you can take this for a couple of days at maximum, but taking this for longer periods of time or having this "just in case", as some people do, is dangerous, especially if someone is prone to addiction. There are other ways to deal with anxiety. SSRIs do not cause addiction and can have more persistent effect.
It is possible to have kundalini symptoms and psychologically caused anxiety or depression at the same time. Our soul has different layers to it. In such a case, controlling anxiety by medication or psychotherapy should enhance the kundalini process.
Hi Mt, it is nice to meet you. And it is nice to see a medical professional not recommending addictive medications. "Clearly caused by psychological forces, but may be interpreted as the results of kundalini activation." Humm? Mt is it possible that a kundalini activation can be caused by psychological forces or are they two separate things? I have spent a lot of time studying and researching the Kundalini with hundreds of hours of Kundalini meditations as a yogi as well as years of introspection studying my personality programming structures or framework all of the way down to the foundation programming of my subconscious mind (the automated part of one's mind). And studying the relationship between the subconscious mind's programming and the autonomic nervous system.
This question comes to mind: What is a Kundalini activation? The Hindu yogis traditionally consider the Kundalini to be a powerful force and sometimes a deity that lies dormant in the two lower energy chakras, the body and sex energy chakras. And the object is to wake this powerful Kundalini force or deity up and then bring it up into the higher energy chakras with the result being one becoming god like. With that said, it is understood by and noted by the Kundalini yogis that raising the true Kundalini is very dangerous if it is not done right. Which is because it can kill you if it is not done right.
So what is this mysterious Kundalini energy that is being activated and controlled by these yogis? Based on my experience, at least relative to the Raja Yoga version of the Kundalini, they are waking up and controlling the energy that is liberated during an intense "Fight or Flight" emotional experience. The energy that is liberated when one experiences extreme fear. And these yogis learn how to control and ground this high energy state so that they can be in this state of mind at will or in some cases all of the time. Which is why when you look at most Raja Yoga master, they seem to be angry or very adrenal. And what they seem to be is actually what they are, in a very controlled way. A person that is on that drug that causes them to be powerfully strong and extremely dangerous is an example of the energy state that a true Kundalini master is controlling. Another example would be a person that is in a extreme stress situation that does super human things that they would never be able to do normally.
Mt as a psychotherapist you can probably see where I am going with this? The "flight" part of the "Fight or Flight" response. When the "Fight" part is not an option for whatever reason, then one goes in to the "flight" side of the "Fight or Flight" response and if the "flight" emotions are not controlled then one goes into a state of anxiety or full blown panic. From there the energy liberated by the "Fight or Flight" response begins to shut down the body and mind through the autonomic nervous system. And if a person stays in an emotional state of anxiety or panic for very long they get sick and things start to go physically wrong with them. The Kundalini energy that the Raja yogis learn to play with and control is the same energy that gives normal people that extra energy that is needed during a "Fight or Flight" emergency moment. Which is normally a good thing.
But, this extra "Fight or Flight" energy is not a good thing when it is created by a perceived threat that is not valid. And in an ideal world when this happens a person goes to a psychotherapist for anger management or for help with anxiety and or panic problems.
In conclusion: The same brain chemistry energy environment that the Raja yogis are playing with and controlling that they call the "Kundalini" is the same brain chemistry energy environment that a psychotherapist is dealing with when they are helping folks with anger management and anxiety or panic problems. With the psychotherapist also helping people to learn to control this energy response along with, in some cases, the use of chemicals to slow things down.
Just for fun, how did I solve my anger problems and then my extreme panic and depression problems? I had to completely change most of the foundation personality programming that was in my subconscious mind (the automated part of the mind), programming that I picked up during my early childhood from my mother. And to be honest with you, it took me over thirty-five years and a lot of psychological pain to do it. Also I had to end up being in a total non stress environment or even then I wouldn't have been able to do it.
Love, TuckerThis message has been edited. Last edited by: Tucker,
Tucker, I'm currently completing a book on kundalini that is entitled The Kundalini Process: A Christian Perspective. Mt has been kind enough to proofread it and provide helpful suggestions.
What I can tell you is that much of what you write above resonates with my own thinking on this topic. I will post a link to the book when it is ready for public circulation -- hopefully, by the end of the month.
Thanks for your sharing, Tucker, and, Mt, for your assistance to hcb.
Having read and followed these threads, but lacking the personal experience, that would certainly interest me, Phil.
Edit: Oops. Just found your email.
I did not mean that kundalini process can be reduced to psychological mechanisms. I don't believe it can. I simply wanted to point out what are the consequence of a model which many people here seems to share, namely, that the body, soul and spirit are deeply interconnected and interdependent. Anxiety as such has both physical/physiological and psychological dimensions. There are different theories about the nature of anxiety and how to best treat it. Certainly, kundalini can increase anxiety (there is somewhere on the forum a discussion on Susanne Segal who'd been experiencing a free floating anxiety caused by a spiritual awakening) and then we can take different means to deal with it. One can always try to deal with anxiety with purely spiritual methods: offer it to Christ, be simply present to it without trying to get rid to it, use Scriptural passages which contextualize "fear" vs. our trusting in God etc. You seem to deal with that in such a way. But it's okay to use psychological therapy to handle anxiety as well as the SSRIs. That's my opinion, even though people who are interested in spirituality sometimes may be reluctant to try therapy for the fear that their experienced will be reduced to mere psychology.
I was on the first message board that was set up to help people with Kundalini problems back in the day. I don't remember what it was called or the name of the fellow that set it up and ran it. I just remember that he was a really nice person. And I was on the second one that was set up and ran by a lady Siddha master, along with a couple of other Kundalini help message boards that that I don't remember their names. Then I joined Phil's message board the first time under a different name. What I have learned from these years of hanging out on Kundalini help message boards is that there are a lot of different ideas about what the Kundalini actually is . And about the only thing that everybody agrees on, that is not an advanced Raja yoga or Kriya yoga student, is that a spontaneous Kundalini rising can be very disturbing and confusing with sometimes it being very debilitating.
Now on the first message board that was set up to help people with a Kundalini problem, the Kundalini was considered something that caused a spontaneous spiritual awakening. And that this spontaneous spiritual awakening was what people needed help with because with most folks this spiritual awakening experience created a lot anxiety and fear.
Eventually all of these message boards that were set up to help people with a Kundalini problem became inactive because ultimately there was not any simple way to help folks that are having what was considered an uncontrolled spiritual awakening . Which then put things back into your field of study Mt .
"There are different theories about the nature of anxiety and how best to treat it." Mt, I am an advanced yogi who has a lot of background in Psychology from my college days and from a lot of reading. And I have spent most my life studying the relationship between the mind and the body as a yogi. And based on my experience, just for the record , the Kundalini can be reduced to "psychological mechanisms"! This is with the understanding that sometimes, but not most of the time, there can be biochemical mechanisms at work that have nothing to do with "psychological mechanisms". But for the most part the "psychological mechanisms" are causing the biochemical mechanisms to come into play. MT, I have taken myself deep into the programming of my subconscious mind (the automated part of the mind). The place where you as a psychologist can't go with the people that you are helping. And I understand through experience why you can't go there. The people that you are helping wouldn't stand for having a look at their deepest fears. Fears that paralyze the heart and death would be preferred over facing these fears. Fears that are "not valid" that they picked up for one reason or another in their early childhood.
Mt, I would be willing to talk to you over the internet some how (if it isn't too much money, I am on a fixed income) because I need help. You know the current things that are going on in the psychotherapist world. I know what is going on in my own mind, but I don't know what you know about how to solve things. And it is the solve that I am having a problem with. If you would be willing and the cost of therapy isn't too much, which if it is, it is not your fault. Mt, would you be willing to explore the possibility?
Right. Or, even worse, reduced to "mere biochemistry."
I've noticed this also on a message board for meditators that I've sometimes visited. People who are suffering from depression often want to be assured that they are "going through the dark night of the soul," as opposed to suffering from ordinary depression, which could then be treated with psychotherapy and/or medication.
It's as though they want to believe that they are "special," having nothing in common with ordinary people. They believe further that no ordinary person could possibly understand them.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Derek,
Derek, in the field of addiction counseling, we called such people "terminally unique."
Derek has seen the manuscript of my new book, and I hope to have the final version done soon. I think there will always be a divergence of opinions about what we mean by "kundalini," but I am hoping my book will help to advance an understanding that validates many kinds of experiences while being faithful to the spirit of Eastern teachings on this topic. That said, it doesn't mean the integration of the process itself will become much easier because of this understanding, but it will at least help people come to grips with what they're dealing with, and that's not trivial.
sorry to answer with a delay. I had a lot of things to deal with, two jobs, two kids etc. I want to reply to your question about therapy via Skype. I heard about psychotherapists working that way with patients, but I don't do that. It just doesn't allow to emphatize with the patient in a full way - I'm working in a psychoanalytic paradigm in which, contrary to the classical "couch psychoanalysis", words spoken by the patient are no longer what is the most important thing; they are just a part of what I listen to when I treat my patients. Sometimes more important is what is transmitted non-verbally and for this I need to look at the patient, be with him in the same room, enter his emotional world as much as possible. Skype doesn't allow this intensity of relationship and that is why I don't use it for this purpose. But I'm quite sure there are good psychotherapists where you live, even though they may not share your spiritual experiences and interests. But if you find a sensitive, honest person, he will respect your spirituality.
hi again everybody,
but what medical could be a problem causing this all.
I am having big problems with the lorazapam,
I cant come to zero.
My whole body is tensed up / and then more relaxed =more anxiety) also because of the movement of this medicine.It makes everything impossible.
Now I have come to the point that it is nearly impossible to bear the fysical comfort of building down. It is severe, but not because of the symptoms of addiction, but mainly because of the pain in the body, this is the limit right now. Having come to the limit of 0,25 3 times, but the Kundalini has been reacting on the building down and it is really cramping and pain all over the body.
Also I have no steady situation.
Also in the morning energy is leaking because of the pressure in the body then , without the pam.
and it is them impossible to sleep further, also because of the noise in the ears.
What options have I left ?
What I would like you to ask:
How can I aid building down the pam, could acupuncture help this or could it make things worse ?
What else could help,make the body more relaxed and to be able to build down.
When I am uncramping then some time later everything is cramping because I cant handle the energy,
especcialy now , during the explosion.
what could i do in the morning to sleep the last couple of hours. (perhaps valerian , some other natural relaxer ?)
what could i do when building down the pam and I have another explosion ? Other means ?
what is the best time to uncramp spots, is it during the relaxation period of the pam ( first half) or during the pressuring fase (second half
of an intake of lorazapam), this is what i call the movement of the lorazapam.
first after intake : feeling more anxiety / restless , then after some period of course more fysical relaxion / more normal (the top of the curve)
, but at the end feeling more pressure of the body and also because of that on the mind)
Also having problems that everything outside is too bright and to much, to noisy, for some time, hearing constant zooming / pusling.
I hope you understand my explanation .
and thank you so much for hopefully some advice ......the main issue is how to relax the body more aiding building down the pam.
best regards hcbThis message has been edited. Last edited by: hcb,
I can only offer you my own experience...
1. Forget cycling down. Get to a therapeutic dose and stay there.
2. Supplement with Benadryl as needed if the energy gets agrivated due to short term triggers.
3. Use Ibuprofen (or CBD if it’s legal where live) to ease the tenseness as needed.
4. Embrace the “Nada’s“ (sound in your head) and use it as a meditation focus. It’s actually a good thing. It’s a constant reminder of God’s presence as the Holy Spirit. It’s now part of your awareness and your reality.
5. Try Ormus (ORME’s) for health And to enhance meditation. I can offer some suggestions if you need.
6. Finally, learn to focus on that which you appreciate. I can’t stress how important this is...
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