Priya, I don't think revising your opening thread is the best way to proceed. For one thing, people have replied to it and so changing the contents might make the replies look a little wierd.

Way back in the beginning of this forum, I had started a thread on Kundalini links. Perhaps you could add to those if you have any. Just page back in the forum links and you'll find it.

Perhaps, too, an annotated bibliography of sorts could be useful if you'd like to start a new thread on it.

Some of the early threads also had a lot of basic info on kundalini, including a comprehensive presentation of the Hindu view, which is what you seem to be presenting.

Shalom!

Phil,

When I opened this separate thread on July 28, in my opening post, which merely served as an introduction, I DID mention that it was an attempt to bring together my contribution as a kundalini 'outsider'and it was NOT being opened for a discussion. It was opened as a means to resolve the communication problems I had with an 'insider' - a way to prevent further problems and yet present my non-kundalini contribution without offending any insider.

It is the introductory opening post that has been edited to summarise my contribution which accomodated all the information I had gathered since I left the discussion with the group.

I have kept my posts to which you responded exactly as it is.

Coming to the details of my postings on this thread: I used the first six consecutive posts, including the introductory opening post, to bring together my contribution until that date from the various threads. The fact that I copied my contribution in the form of exchanges with insiders verbatim brought about another misunderstanding, this time with you and so on :

July 28, 2002, 06:15 PM, you wrote:

Priya, while there's no doubting the value of much of the material on this thread, I see that in the one above you've chosen to continue your running argument with Linda. I've asked several times for this to stop, and I now expect it to completely.

So in my reply post I had to explain to you that the arguments had been carried over only because they formed part of my contribution, and because I had not edited anything at that stage, it just carried over the context in which my contribution was made. Later on in subsequent posts I added the kundalini information as I collected them, consisting of 10 posts in all, before you responded with this post:

You wrote : Earlier on this forum, I presented a rather lengthy essay describing the Hindu/tantric approach to kundalini. You can find it on this thread. Some of the material you're sharing overlaps with that considerably, although there are some significant elaborations …

Since I was continuing to reflect and collect information sporadically, I added three more posts, to which you responded thus:

You wrote : Priya, thanks for another installment of quotes from various experts. I've come across many of these ideas before, and have read some of the authors you quoted, including Mircea Eliade…Maybe I should clarify that I myself am not seeking a cure for kundalini awakening, but, instead, count it a great blessing in my life, despite all the struggles I've had with it. These are certainly no worse than the emotional ups and downs that so many go through all the time, and which I've been free of for years. I also have a good understanding of what causes my struggles--mostly lifestyle related--and what helps to resolve it…

I wrote my response to that and wound up because this was not supposed to be a thread for discussion anyway and was meant from the beginning only to bring together my contribution as a kundalini 'outsider' and was kept separate so as not to cause any conflict with 'insiders'.

Since this is a public forum, I share my reflections and the information on this thread, to add my personal thoughts on the subject - both on the interpretation of kundalini and the means of cure. It is meant only to give food for thought to anyone who visits your discussion forum. Since you are already an expert in the field, I did not hope to add much to your knowledge. If my Hindu views happen to coincide with the Hindu views expressed by others either in this forum or elsewhere, it is simply because the Hindus described this phenomenon thousands of years ago and many people have commented on it over the centuries - there is plenty of literature available, all saying the same basic things in different ways and with some personal interpretation thrown into it. I have listed and acknowledged the source of my information on this thread.

As to an annotated bibliography, I’ll leave it to experts like you who have done extensive research and therefore already has a complete annotated bibliography to put it on a separate thread. This thread is more than enough to bring together my little contribution which has NOT been prepared as a research article, but only put together randomly.

What I had read and heard, even before reading Joseph Chilton Pearce's writings about Kundalini (Pierce was a follower of the yogi, Muktnanda), is that the kundalini is a normal human event, or was such, in indigenous tribes. It rose in stages, according to certain rights of passage recognized by aboriginal peoples, culmating in full riseness (is that a word?) around the age 22.

As civilization developed, the rites of passage were corrupted or even lost altogether. That, coupled with new beliefs and ways of living and learning and teaching children, religious, political and otherwise, the kundalini became blocked in most civilized human beings, more so in some than in others.

I have read somewhere and also heard a few times that yogis, or someone, in India and perhaps near there noticed that when people experienced sudden arousal of the kundalini, they often went into weird postures in response thereto. This led to yoga moving into using physical postures, hoping to either cause the kundalini to rise, or to regulate it once it started rising on its own.

Many people today view the kundalini as a spiritual experience. Muktanada referrred to it as "the Goddess Kundalini." Yet and in my own personal experience with its rising in me, rather volatile at first, no, rather terrifying and painful before it settled in to just being awful, it does seem to clean out, as it erupts, psycho-spiritual wounds, and it seems to move karmic issues forward.

It's all a step by step thing for me, and for others I know who are having like experiences with it. For us it is all regulated by Spirit, and we just ride it out, using whatever seems to work best for each of us to make it go a little easier.

As for demonic entities, yes they exist in abundance. They appear when the Spirit permits it, I and the others have found. Yet they are not alone, as they are linked in some way to the inner demonic twin all human beings have, until they are remade by God, which the kundalini arousal is but a piece of, a small piece in the big scheme of things. As the inner demonic twin is transformed in stages, the orbiting demonic entities are either also transformed or leave. And then yet others not yet seen show up, which resonate with the remaining aspects of the inner demonic twin.

The deeper the interior transformation goes, the bigger and badder, so to speak, are the manifestations of Evil. The closer to home plate (the mother lode) we get, the stiffer is the resistance is another way to say it.

Jesus was a good example of the wrestle with inner and outer evil, starting with his three rounds with Evil in the wilderness, which left him for a season, but we see signs of its return from time to time during his ministry and even upon the cross.

His story is told, I believe from my own experiences, and those of others well known to me, to show everyone else what is really going on during the "salvation" process. As Jesus himself said, in many ways, it is an ongoing process, fueled by living the Word as he taught and modeled it. That was his baptism, which he said was in fire, not in water.

The New Testament Letter to the Hebrews was scribed anonymously by a Melchizedek priest for the benefit of other Melchizedek initiates who were discouraged or were even giving up because their baptism was so rugged. The scribe urged them not to give up, to persevere as ones in whom God had taken a special interest, and the scribe also warned of the peril of turning back once being chosen for this experience.

I have lived the Hebrews experience to the Nth degree, to the point that I wished many times I had never embarked on this trip. I have been places on this world and in the spirit realms I do not care to visit again. Somoe of them in the spirit realms I had never heard of, and still have not heard of from anyone else or in anything I have read. I have had hardships that I believe would have made Job weep for me, had he been with me as a witness to my experience.

As I told my wife this morning, the only way I have survived is by assuming that, on my own, I am both crazy and evil beyond repair, and that only by God's steady ministering and regulation of my being and life can I stay the true course. And if I fall off that course, I will fall so far that Lucifer will be glad not to be me.

This commentary may seem extreme, but it is there in the Letter to the Hebrews, for those able to read it in the way it was intended by the scribe to be read. Although it does appear at the end that the scribe might have been Paul, the text is unlike any of Paul's other writings.

I hear from Spirit that the scribe was Mary Magdalene, and she doctored it to look like Paul wrote it because it was not likely that anyone would listen to a woman. This makes some sense to me, because it was to Magdlaene that Jesus first emerged outside the tomb and commissioned (ordained) her to carry the good news (the gospel) to the other disciples, who became rather agitated that Jesus had chosen Magdalene and not one of them (men) for that role.

It's hard not to take Jesus' behavior as a strong message about who he believed was his most faithful disciple, and how he felt about women being priests. Yet the early church was influenced by Judaism and Paul, which did not permit women priests, or even felt women had any direct link with God. The early church only believed one woman, Jesus' mother, was worthy to be beside God.

I bring up this gender stuff as an example of what has happened in Christianity to block the natural rising of the kundalini, which is hugely dependent on a healthy inner balance between the inner male and female, animus and anima as C. G. Jung called it.

Also contributing to that difficulty in Christendom, and elsewhere, is the seeming nearly universal belief that God is male, even though it says in Genesis that "male and female alike were human beings (man) mad in God's image.

Also contributing to that difficulty is the belief that Eve caused the fall from Paradise. Actually, she was programmed by heaven to cause the fall, so that those people known as the Adam and Eve race would experience absence from God, so they would then appreciate being with God and be wise enough to remain with God, once they returned to Paradise.

Instead, Adam and Eve went into gender warfare, which has waged on this world ever since. That is why Jesus tried to take Magdalene as a wife, and why they had a child, which became the core belief of the Cathar sect of Christianity in Southern Europe, where the Cathas said Magdalene fled with the child, Catharyn, after the Romans began to execute Christians who would not renounce Jesus.

Some time after Christiainity became the state religion in Rome, nations allied with Rome went into Cathar terrain and annihilated the Cathars, and destroyed their churches and scriptures. Yet, it is said, that Catharyn's blood was by then spreading all over Europe, and it became knowing in the most secret of circles as the Holy Grail.

I have some knowledge of this circle. And of that blood. And of it's effect on those through whose veins it courses. And of it's purpose: to reach a holy union inside of each Grail initiate, and between each paired male and female Grail initiate, of the consumation of the marriage of Christ and the Holy Spirit, represented by Jesus and Magdalene. And of the redemption of Adam and Eve, within each Grail initiate, and between each paired Grail couple.

This is all connected with the kundalini and the spirit transmutation of human beings who have the experience, which is not limited to Grail initiates today, but they are leaders in it being spawned on this world, and they infect others with it by some spirit bleeding out of them into others. Then it takes on a life of its own in the newly "infected," regulated by Spirit.

I believe this is the "second coming," referred to in the New Testament and in Revelation. Certainly, I and others in my circle have had experiences that rival what John experienced in himself when he was writing about Revelation. Good thing there were no psychiatrists back then. Otherwise, John and Job would have been locked up and we would not have their writings to help us understand what is happening to us now.

Peace.

Sloan Young

Hi Sloan,

Thank you for sharing your incredibly interesting insights into your K process as well as your historical and cultural interpretation.

Though I've read everything under the sun and went to all kinds of "K" authorities of all kinds of traditions for help, I feel confident in saying that I have NO, ABSOLUTELY NO, certainty about the K, other than its an evolutionary energy that I don't know if native tribes were dealing with our brand of K or not, and that it is a totally individualized process. What holds true for one person in their path doesn't necessarily hold true for another. And after nearly 8 years of living with this, I'm not even sure I ascribe any longer to any traditional energy paradigmn in explaining the K in terms of chakras, subtle energy bodies, etc.

In fact, the entire process has been so humbling that I've grown increasingly spiritually conservative. For me, Christianity has offered the only saving grace and I'm glad that you and your circle have found consolation and understanding via Hebrews and Revelations. I think Phil (and other contributors to this board) are much more adept than I am in discussing the cultural, spiritual and political issues you bring up and I'm sure we'll be seeing some interesting contributions. Linda

Sloan, I echo Linda's gratitude in your sharing so much about your experiences here. The more people who come forward to do so and compare notes with others, the more we will learn.

Experiences are one thing, and the interpretation we given them another, however. Sometimes the two come together, other times we look to outside sources for understanding and validation. Unto that end, we'll find some common insights around the world concerning kundalini, but not much in the Christian literature, I'm afraid. I'm very tuned in to how some of this might happen, and since you've mentioned a few yourself, I'll reply to some of them.

It's all a step by step thing for me, and for others I know who are having like experiences with it. For us it is all regulated by Spirit, and we just ride it out, using whatever seems to work best for each of us to make it go a little easier.

Yes indeed! I very much relate to this point.

As for demonic entities, yes they exist in abundance. They appear when the Spirit permits it, I and the others have found. Yet the dark ones are not alone, as they are linked in some way to the inner demonic twin all human beings have, until they are remade by God, of which the kundalini arousal is but a small but important piece in the big scheme of things.

That's an interesting way of looking at the relationship between demonic entities and their attraction to us (and vice versa). So were your continuing reflections on this.

Jesus was a good example of the wrestle with inner and outer evil, starting with his three rounds with Evil in the wilderness, which left him for a season, but we see signs of its return from time to time during his ministry and even upon the cross.

In the case of Jesus, Christianity would say that there is no inner evil in him. This point comes through many times in Scripture and in the teaching of the Church. He is tempted by demons during his times of hunger and pain, but these are not evils in the sense of sinfulness.

The New Testament Letter to the Hebrews was scribed anonymously by a Melchizedek priest for the benefit of other Melchizedek initiates who were discouraged or were even giving up because their baptisms were so rugged. The scribe urged them not to give up, to persevere as ones in whom God had taken a special interest. The scribe also warned of the peril of turning back, once being chosen for this experience.

Most Biblical scholars attribute Hebrews to an associate of Paul, if not Paul himself. I'm not sure where your references to Melchizedek priests come from. The message you keyed in on is indeed an important one, I believe.

I have lived the Hebrews experience to the Nth degree, to the point that I wished many times I had never embarked on this trip. . .

I know what you mean. But from time to time, I get a whiff of what my old consciousness was like and wouldn't go back there for anything, kundalini struggles notwithstanding.

It's hard not to take Jesus' behavior as a strong message about who he believed was his most faithful disciple, and how he felt about women being priests. Yet the early church was influenced by Judaism and Paul, which did not permit women priests, or even felt women had any direct link with God. The early church only believed one woman, Jesus' mother, was worthy to be beside God.

I wish you'd have just stuck with kundalini issues, as you're raising all kinds of issues which have no relation. Just for the record on this one, the early Church certainly believed women could be with God. Also, even if women priests had been allowed in the early Church, it's doubtful that they would have gained much acceptance given the cultures of those times. Your allusions to Paul and Jesish attitudes are saying as much.

I bring up this gender stuff as an example of what has happened in Christianity to block the natural rising of the kundalini, which is hugely dependent on a healthy inner balance between the inner male and female, animus and anima, as C. G. Jung called it.

This patriarcal bias is found in all religions, Sloan. Fortunately, the kind of "inner marriage" to which you're alluding can happen in an individual anyway.

Also contributing to that difficulty in Christendom, and elsewhere, is the seeming nearly universal belief that God is male, even though it says in Genesis that "male and female alike were human beings (man) mad in God's image.

God-as-male gender is not really what Christians believe, as I'm sure you know. Nevertheless, the male imaging is there, but how related all this is to kundalini, I'm not sure.

Also contributing to that difficulty is the belief that Eve caused the fall from Paradise. Actually, Eve was programmed by heaven to cause the fall, so that those people known as the Adam and Eve race would experience absence from God, so they would then appreciate being with God and be wise enough to remain with God, once they returned to Paradise.

You're waaaay off the Christian map, here, confusing the initial intent of the divine with a redemptive consequence which came from its frustration. It's certainly not in Jewish or Christian theology to affirm that Eve was programmed for heaven for the Fall.

Instead, Adam and Eve went into gender warfare, which has waged on this world ever since. That is why Jesus tried to take Magdalene as a wife, and why they had a child, which became the core belief of the Cathar sect of Christianity in Southern Europe, where the Cathars said Magdalene fled with the child, Catharyn, after the Romans began to execute Christians who would not renounce Jesus. She and the child lived among them there.

There's absolutely no evidence anywhere in the Gospels or any other writings in early Christianity to substantiate any of these points. Quite the contrary. Same goes for what followed in your precis about the Cathars, Holy Grail, etc. You've been reading some occult literature and mistaking some of its metaphysical musings for historical truth.

I believe this is the "second coming," referred to in the New Testament and in Revelation. Certainly, I and others in my circle have had experiences that rival what John experienced in himself when he was writing about Revelation.

There has been a "second coming" of Christ into this world through the Spirit working in the mind and hearts of people of good will all along. But the Second Coming which Christianity proclaims is also an historical event in the future in which God's reign will be fully established on this earth.

Sloan, I recognize the reading and reflection you've done to try to make sense of all this, and can affirm your fundamental insight about K being somewhat frustrated by some of the teachings of Christianity and even other world religions. But while there's surely an esoteric, occult dimension to Christianity--namely, its mystical tradition--this does not and cannot conflict with its exoteric, historical reality. Attempting to retain that kind of fidelity is an important part of the work we're doing on this forum.

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Simple request to you and all posters: shorter posts, please! Try to keep things focused on just a few related points--no more than 200 words or so. A post is analagous to a paragraph or two in a book, not a chapter. Sharing experiences is another matter; take all the space you need for that.