Hello, this is my first time posting though I've spent a good deal of time reading older threads both several years ago and here recently. I had an experience this morning that I believe to be kundalini-related that I'd like to relate here, but first some background may be helpful.

Nine or ten years ago I became acquainted with what is commonly talked about as "energy" and the "energy body," chakras, etc. In practical terms, for me, this has simply meant that I'm aware of sensations that occur when I do certain things with body awareness, and I can make myself tingle if I breathe the right way. Certain exercises can bring feelings of calm or catharsis, depending on intent, though I've never had the discipline or the wherewithal to "achieve" anything grand or spiritual by way of energy exercises. Any spiritual growth I've experienced in the last decade is more accurately attributed to my growing relationship with Christ than to any funny feelings I'm able to generate by "thinking from my toes."

That said, during traditional prayers I can very plainly feel different energy centers being activated and energy flowing in and out according to the mindset brought on by a particular prayer or devotion. Over the years, I've become more and more called to the Catholic Church, and with the most recent deepening of my spirituality which I'm going through, I'm on the verge of converting to Catholicism in order to participate in the sacraments. Four years ago I completed the 30 day consecration to Mary put forth in "True Devotion to Mary," (though I wasn't able to take communion at the end, as is directed) and since then I've maintained a very close relationship with the Blessed Mother.

Two years ago, I had a very strange experience while praying, in which, in a manner of speaking, I "saw" myself turn into a snake and had impressions of kundalini "rising up" to meet Christ as he descended from the heavens. It left me tingly, and disoriented, and extremely hungry. Since that general time period, I've been mostly spiritually "dry," with only small spurts (a couple weeks or months) of devoted prayer separated by long periods of distraction with the world (starting a family, a career, etc). I tell you about this experience now because this morning, I had another experience, which was similar but more intense than the one several years ago.

I typically will begin prayer by reciting a Little Crown, which has a tendency to help me identify with Mary, and afterward, I began meditating on the Sacred Heart, which I've been doing habitually for some time now. I felt compelled to give a few issues to God, which I did, and afterward I began to feel something building up in my core, which I perceived as a strong impulse to give God praise (doesn't happen so viscerally for me very often), and so I did. Eventually the feeling overwhelmed me and I began to experience what I believe was glossolalia. My breathing quickened and my lower back became hot, and I began to feel a pressure which hasn't yet gone away (the heat comes and goes). This went on for several minutes until I eventually suppressed it (I was going to be late for work), though my tongue and mouth were still wanting to move. I felt a tingling sensation of energy all over, and if I would turn my mind back to God, the "gushing" feeling would come back.

I suppose my question, if I really have one, is related to the glossolalia. I've read that it is typically a sign of the Holy Spirit, and Phil, in your book I know you said it comforted you as you went through stages of k-development. I didn't really feel a comfort at all. It was exhilarating, and I felt very "devotional," and I believe it was all directed toward God, but frankly there were moments that were disconcerting. There were moments where my perception changed, almost like I was hallucinating, and some where I was afraid at the fact that I wasn't really in control of myself. My mind was still going back and forth, having thoughts, while another part of me was acquiescing, even participating, in the madness.

I'm not really disturbed at the fact that I had a weird experience, which I'm somewhat used to, but I'm curious if this is the normal course of things with glossolalia (until today I wasn't completely sure it was even legit). In your experience (everyone), is there a particular kind of feeling that is normally associated with speaking in tongues? Is it always a sign of the Holy Spirit, or do people experiencing kundalini awakenings have fits of it quite apart from the HS?


Paul

Hi Paul,

Welcome to Shalom Place. It's good you've decided to take the plunge, so to speak, and introduce yourself.

I've been around several charismatic folks (maybe several dozen) who've shared about receiving the gift of tongues. There are certain themes which come up again and again, like some of the things you shared: feeling devotional, exhilarating, and even somewhat out of control. For me, speaking in tongues often feels like a rushing of devotion/praise that comes pouring out of me. There's sometimes a strong flow of energy, maybe a little bit of shuttering, and a sense of cleansing, straightening out, 'dusting off' so to speak. Other times, there's no energy sensed, but a purer flow of Grace. The words that pour forth feel full of meaning and purpose, but hidden from my mind, known only by God. This is deeply satisfying, like one's spirit is fully joined with God's Spirit.

However, what you describe as the "almost like I was hallucinating" and sense of "acquiescing...in the madness" do seem a bit unusual. Do you mean actual visual hallucinations, as in seeing something that is not really there? Do you have any history of occult involvement/ energy mix-ups with gurus/ masters, etc.?

As per your last question. The Holy Spirit is always directing the gift of tongues, otherwise it's not the gift of tongues as described in the Bible. Kundalini alone may cause weird sounds/words to come out of your mouth, but that's another issue...?

In terms of your spiritual growth, it's great to hear about your interest in the Sacraments and prayer. Many of us here, you've probably gathered, have found our God-ordained home in the Catholic Church. Best of all, however, what you share about your starting a family is the best soil in which to grow in holiness. What is a "worldly distraction" vs. the very means by which you are being called to grow in love, and thereby spiritual maturity? My spiritual director has often reminded me about this bit of wisdom from the Saints: no need to go into any other pastures or focus on any spiritual experiences to grow closer to God. Focus simply on the mundane responsibilities of family and the work God is calling you to perform. I'm sure you already know this, so pardon me if I sound 'preachy.' Anyway, hope some of that answered some of your questions...

Christ's rich love and happiness be with you,

Shasha

Note: this message has been edited around 8 pm.

Thanks for the reply, Shasha, it was helpful in its entirety. I was only kidding when referring to my family and career as worldly distractions; my family is the heart of any growth I'm lucky enough to experience.

As far as the "hallucinating" comment, the only way I can describe it is to say that my perception changed, and my environment seemed more surreal, or maybe less (more?) real, for a few seconds. I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by occult involvement, though I've never had any type of guru besides the Lord

When you say that "kundalini alone may cause weird sounds/words to come out of your mouth..." what do you mean? The reason I ask is that - and perhaps it's because I had to suppress it early on - while I definitely felt energized and alert, and as if there was a rushing of devotion and praise coming out of me, I don't specifically remember feeling cleansed. On the other hand, it's possible I just didn't give myself enough time to rest and let it sink in.

Since then, I've felt the constant pressure in my lower back and at the base chakra, various (minor) aches and pains along my spine and in my head, and at times I've felt like the back of my neck was extremely hot. I've also tried to pray and meditate several times, and after a short time I'm unable to continue. My breathing deepens in an unusual (to me) "circular" pattern, energy movements all over my body become very apparent, and the meditations become extremely difficult to hold on to. At the same time, I can feel a buildup of energy starting to move my tongue - since yesterday morning, I haven't let it continue too far, choosing instead to get up after a short time and suppress it. I guess I'm just trying to get my head around it - I've had what I consider to be a very "deep" and real spiritual dimension to my life for a long time, but it's never been this visceral or physical.

I don't think my intent here is to solicit specific advice (though all thoughts are extremely welcome), so much as relate my experience in the knowledge that other people here have gone through very similar situations. While I love my wife completely and she is always supportive, I think I would scare her if I brought it up in dinner conversation.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Hi again.

About energy, not the Holy Spirit, moving your tongue and mouth or blurting out strange sounds, I've heard of that happening to people with kundalini activation.

You mentioned suppressing a few times in the post above. If you're suppressing the Holy Spirit's gift of speaking in tongues, that's a problem. Perhaps you'd feel some relief in surrendering whatever obstacles you may have to receiving the gift of tongues. I heard a wonderful testimony at a Life in the Spirit Seminar by a woman who strongly resisted speaking in tongues when the gift was impressing upon her. She said, "I'm blonde, I'm a woman, and I'm Polish...I didn't need another thing to make me look stupid!" LOL. Lots of people feel some measure of embarrassment concerning the gift of tongues, especially 'intellectual types.' Not meaning to suggest that you are one...

Hi Paul, good to see you here.

like you , i was never involved in any guru type stuff, meditation, breathing type stuff when kundalini first was activated.. there is no doubt within my heart it was activated by the Holy Spirit.. as K awakened within me during intense private prayer.

i knew nothing about K when it began.. i thought it was the Holy Spirit as i had never even heard the word kundalini.

the snake dreams came and went, as well as all the weird sounds and a 100 other symptoms of K.

I examined my conscience and gave everything to Jesus that i could think of, then, i let it go.... it helped me to recognize i cannot know.. because it is all way beyond me.. my prayer became and IS..... "Jesus i trust in You!"

what i have learned over the years is to keep out of my head around it and to trust the Lord.. the reason for this is to much trying to understand it intellectually, one runs the risk of getting caught up in the phenomena of trying to figure it out. I assure you, you never will.

The risk i found was subtle.. an ever so slow focus/ preoccupation on the kundalini energy/ process and less on ones prayer life and walk in Christ in 'faith'... which eventually can lead to a deadening affect because i began to search for answers with my head,( to find assurance) rather than trust God with my heart...

For me, in the beginning there were many weird experiences... and like you, i seriously sought out to find someone to help me, as many of my experiences were way out there and i was often afraid....i might add, many of the experiences were also ecstatic and joyful. ...it was a confusing time as well as exhilarating time.

there is nothing wrong finding out some general facts/ information about K... but many go off the deep end as the Kundalini energy intensifies constantly looking for answers...running here and there.. instead of Going within and entrusting the whole process to Jesus.

The same with speaking in tongues.. at some point, i found no one could give me any answers i could entirely depend on, as everyone comes from his or her perception and have their own understanding from their experience or conditioning...

After a while all the opinions became to much, so i quit listening and gave it to Jesus. Today it does not matter what i go thru, what i am feeling or experiencing... i give it all to Him and rest in Him...and there is.. peace.

Peace you will need going through an active kundalini process! LOL!

well that's my two cents worth... good luck within your process and i will pray for you!

warm regard, christine

Paul,

Have you seen this discussion on praying in tongues?


https://shalomplace.org/eve/for...?r=86810606#86810606

Hi Paul. We also have a forum on the Holy Spirit, including a discussion on glossalalia there as well.
- https://shalomplace.org/eve/forums/a/frm/f/18110765

I think it's best to keep in mind that energy phenomena don't necessarily tell us how things are going in our relationship with God. They can be concomitant to deepening union, healings, times of surrender, and so forth. They can also be stimulated by breath, certain diets, and many other factors. This goes for even high chakra sensations, tinglings, etc. And once one learned to "tune in" to energy movements, one quickly learns how attention itself has an influence on the energy, and it can become tempting to get involved with all that.

Snake symbolism is interesting, isn't it? I'll bet most Christians would consider a snake to be a symbol of the devil, and yet in today's first reading at Mass, we hear how Yahweh would turn Moses' staff into a serpent -- a sign to Pharoah that Yahweh was with Moses. Then there are those mysterious seraph serpents that plagued the Israelites in the dessert, and Moses being instructed to make a bronze serpent and "raise it" for the Israelites to look upon. Jesus himself identified with the bronze serpent in John's gospel. So it's not uncommon to find serpent symbolism showing up in one's dreams, visions, inner imaginings, etc. when spiritual transformation begins to accelerate.

Do you see someone regularly for spiritual direction? If not, I'd highly recommend it. It could help to keep you grounded and and focused on your relationship with God.
- see http://www.sdiworld.org

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Phil,

Thanks for all of the replies, everyone.

Shasha - Yes, I've read that discussion, and it was very informative. I suppose the gist of it was that I had no conviction it was the Holy Spirit. In my experience that lack of conviction can be a type of evidence itself, as I typically will have a *knowing* when God is speaking to me. That said, I could be wrong, and if that's the case it wouldn't be the first time I wasn't fully cooperative with something God wants to give me, and I'll have to trust in his patience.

faustina - I can definitely see that risk you're talking about, i.e. a slow shift of focus from God to the kundalini or other processes that I might find interesting or exciting. I'm also aware of a temptation within myself to attempt to conceptualize and control experiences and fit them into boxes. Your words ring true

Phil - Thank you for the link; I've read a lot of the discussions there and will continue to do so. I wholeheartedly agree about the disconnect between energy happenings and our relationship with God. While I'm always aware of energy movements within me, and I'm aware of how energy flows in different directions depending on my focus, it's not what I would consider useful information. The exception to this, I suppose, is when energy moves somewhat automatically during prayer. I take this as helpful and supportive of the basic nature of the prayer or meditation, even if we're not always aware of it. On a bit of a side note, one thing I've done for a long time, though, which has kind of an energy movement side effect, is to try to expand my awareness to my entire body (or specific parts, i.e. the heart) during certain types of prayer, in an attempt to involve my whole self in turning my attention and desire to God.

The Messiah/serpent connection has been of interest to me since I first learned of it when I spent several years studying Jewish mysticism and the Hebrew alphabet. There are a lot of seemingly strange connections to be drawn out of scripture from different types of "word-games." I also enjoyed that section of your book, where you talked about the serpents and the Israelites. A talk about this type of symbolism could go off in all kinds of directions, though I don't know how useful it would be.

To answer your question, no, I don't see anyone for regular spiritual direction. I do have someone I go to for advice on occasion, though typically when I ask for advice I end up getting the answer I already know to be true. Sometimes just going through the process of formulating and asking a question is enough to figure out you already know the answer.

As an update, it's been a few days and the sensations and unusual aches/pains around the base chakra and lower back are gone. I've been able to return to my normal prayer/meditation. I'm not really sure what it means. But at any rate, thanks to everyone for the thoughts and prayers and I look forward to participating in future discussions here.

Paul

Hi, Paul,

I experienced some k symptoms in my prayer life, but, when I read descriptions like yours, sometimes I'm happy it's not that intense in my case. It comes and goes. Generally, I agree with Faustina (and others) - it's best to entrust the whole process to Jesus and Mary, not manipulate or change anything intentionally, and live in a total surrender to God's will. I think k symptoms have a powerful quality of attracting attention. Maybe it'd be a good practice to try to direct the attention towards the Lord as "Thou" of the prayer, and keep the energy movement "in the background", so to speak? Our focus and attentiveness tends to increase every experience we have.

Shasha,

I liked your "preache" passage. I like to be reminded of the "obvious", because there are times when I forget about the obvious.
When I read your story about the woman who didn't want to feel stupid because of being "blonde, woman and Polish", I reacted to this, because I'm Polish (not blonde and not woman, by the way). I wonder why a Polish person would make such a joke about the nation? Are Polish people in America generally considered as "looking stupid"? This remark somehow made me sad for a moment. I can imagine she said this in a welcoming environment, but still... It's like homosexuals calling themselves "faggots" and black people calling themselves "niggers" - it's supposed to take away some "weight" of the words, I guess, but to me it's somehow not-OK to subtly devaluate one's group.

Of course, I don't blame you, Shasha, for using that example, I just wanted to share some of my feelings and reflections about the related thing.

Mt,

Yes, unfortunately, there is a joke in America about Polish people looking "stupid." You are right that this woman told the joke in a very welcoming environment and that she was sufficiently free from taking that seriously. To me, it's similar to what I grew up with as a "hilly-billy Albanian," which is like being called a red-neck--crude, dumb American.

It's NOT like the other examples you gave (homosexuals and blacks) however, in that there's no genuine hatred, malice, or abuse associated with the Polish jokes.

Still, I hear your sadness response, and am sorry I contributed in even the smallest way to hurting you by repeating this joke. Thank you for your forthrightness.

warm regards,
Shasha

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shasha,

All,

What I’ve been playing around with lately – and I don’t say that it’s the smart thing to do, only that it’s what I’ve been doing – is attempting to more fully cooperate with the energizing (I would btw like to use the term ‘infusing’ for the rest of this post).

I’ve read somewhere along the line that the chief work of contemplation is to receive God. And in STA (if memory serves me well) I recall reading that it is important to make oneself available to God – to not get caught up in the affairs of life unnecessarily. And to cooperate with God if and when He might call you to more and more solitude (‘time spent with Him’ is more appropriate to my life as a married person than would be solitude).

So what I’ve been doing, is that whenever I realize that I am being lit up (I conceptualize this as that God is infusing me) I endeavor to stop what I am doing and just ‘be’ before the Lord and let Him do His thing. In this way, I am receiving God (methinks). Being infused. I see it kind of like STA’s image of the garden being watered now by God’s rain. God, as I conceptualize these moments when I am being lit up (others would say energized – and a rose by any other name..) is now wanting to pray INTO me. So I endeavor to make His prayer time my prayer time. I endeavor to fit His schedule. So sometimes I just drop whatever I was doing (as quickly as feasible), pull the car over and turn it off, or remain in the driveway in the car—whatever. Then I sit non-intellect-using and let Him download His supernatural software into me while the hourglass icon is appearing (infusing is going on). You know how when installing software one is advised not to have any other programs running and not to disturb or turn off the computer while download is in process – kind of like that, is how I conceptualize all this.

SJOC says that neither we nor our spiritual director can know by our natural faculties what God is doing supernaturally. That’s what supernatural means. If we could understand it all, it wouldn’t be supernatural and wouldn’t be God. We are to proceed in the darkness of faith. He says that this is the safe path. (Christine kind of says the same when she says she doesn’t try to understand nor get her head around it all, she just trusts Jesus).

Of course, I pray by my schedule in addition to His; but what I am trying to share is an ever increasing sensitivity to His timing, His schedule, and not just mine – like not putting Him off to when prayer is convenient to me and my plans and schedule for the day.

Some sensations that these days I have operative is a strong current-like sensation in my mouth lips and teeth – almost constantly, whether in a time of prayer or not. During prayer periods I get varying sensations. The back of my hands have sensation (non-chakra), both sides of my upper chest sometimes and sometimes warm heavy pressing on my chest. Sometimes forehead lights up. Lately what’s new for me is I get a very dry tickle in the throat sensation that I try to withstand without coughing, but which I can’t for very long. This sometimes happens at mass, not just in quiet times. (kind of a 5th chakra trying to open? Who knows?).

What I notice too, is that quite often, more significant intensity of sensation follows in the minutes after a prayer period (of mine) has ended. Another thing I have realized is that spending 15-20 minutes in church after mass and while the Eucharist is being digested and assimilated through my body is very rich prayer time.

Somewhat wild, is that if for example I stop in a supermarket on the way home from an hour or so of adoration, I get big smiles from people and kids; and sometimes I get a big ‘hi’ from someone who later realizes that they don’t know me at all. A more common than rare happening it sometimes seems.

Another somewhat wild thing I experience, is that sometimes when reading a post here, or reading a spiritual book or watching something on TV I get this intense facial peering / examining of what’s there. It feels as though I have a plunger stuck to my face and someone is trying to pull it off.

Whatever – and anyway. (Hey. I shared.)

Pop-pop

p.s. Of course, I have to say I do wonder what all this is all about and what God is up to.

Hi Pop-pop,

I just LOVE what you've shared here, being receptive and sensitive to God's 'download' of blessings in His time and following His rhythm. I see great wisdom in that. I see that I need a very serious structure to my life/ day, given my responsibility to others, but also, to stop when able and allow oneself to just sit, be, receive...to move more s-l-o-w-l-y...that's a something I've gleaned from my Carmelite group. They've taught me to slow, way down.

Like you, I experience a profound period of prayer slash download or integration of Jesus in my spirit immediately following Eucharist. It's very beautiful. I leave Mass feeling like somebody's pressed a hot iron over my emotional/spiritual wrinkles.

Pops, I have periods, sometimes days or weeks, of intense sizzling like energy on my nose, upper lip, and even my teeth. Sometimes I feel a circuit of energy whirling around my mouth, upper palette-tip of tongue. Like Paul, too, I've had times when I can actually direct the energy to move around at will. The other night, I was half-asleep and felt an intense hot sizzling at the top of my head, a hole burst open and energy came flying out. I scrambled to find myself momentarily and simply gave this to Christ. I 'saw' something in the supernatural, but it was very mundane. And really quite pointless.

As Phil and others have noted (sorry to be redundant), I don't think energy is always connected with God moving in any way more than God is involved in our digestive tract, for instance, or our hormonal fluctuations. I know it's weird: why 10 day of intermittent sizzling energy at the tip of my tongue or upper lip, God?. What's that about?

But certainly other times when energy does feel like an invitation by the Holy Spirit as you beautifully describe to sit, be still, receive.

So it seems at least three things could be going on:

1) energy moving around with no spiritual significance (that is apparent to us and in fact none may exist). This is random or connected to mundane biopsycho factors?

2) energy activity infused by the Holy Spirit for some specific blessing/ integration from God. For example, when I pray in tongues and kundalini goes shooting up my spine.

3) the Holy Spirit moving but no energy is involved--though it may feel like or be confused with energy. For example, getting a direct revelation from God or miracle healing the occurs without any personal energy transfer.

Whatever and anyway...I shared too.

Excellent sharing, Pop and Shasha.

I can say that sometimes the "energy stuff" going on in me seems to include an invitation to prayer, which often suggests itself as glossalalia (not the ecstatic prayer type, but the more "ordinary" non-affective type). Sometimes, too, there are inclinations to just-stop or just-be, and I do just that, if possible.

Of course, there are also many times when the energy phenomena don't seem to be infusions of grace, but are just chi flows in the body/mind. These have a very different feel about them. I can prayerfully attend to these flows and invite the Spirit into the process, and this does make a difference. But I don't know that I'd go so far as to say that all energy movements are responses to infused contemplative graces, however.

Shasha, I can very much go along with the three points you share at the end of your post above.

All,

Our Shasha commented in one of her posts that she was having a hard time seeing a connection between being energized and growing in holiness and virtuous life.

“If the sign of a holy person is a virtuous life, I just don't see that energy experiences are much related to growing in virtue and how, therefore, God would use them for His kingdom”.

Her question concerns our attention at SP with energizing or kundalini [if they are (or aren’t) direct equivalents]. And in that vein, one might also call these sensations we speak of on the SP forum threads as infusions or unctions of the Holy Spirit or perhaps sometimes just gustos. So there certainly is a mix to sort through in endeavoring to discern what all these sensations are and whether or not they mean a hill of beans to spiritual life in Christ and to growth in holiness, and virtue – or perhaps to growth in delusion.

Really, really good questioning. Really really good intent behind the questioning. I think most of us have similar thoughts, or have had somewhere along the line such thoughts.

We are repeatedly advised in scripture to test the spirits, and be careful about false teachings and being misled. Many many books have been written on Discernment of Spirits. Too, there is a charism in this regard as well, scripture tells us.

Certainly there is much New Age and occult practice becoming ever more prevalent in secular society and creeping into Christendom as well. Christendom is taking hits from without and from within.

Two questions that play into all this are: from whence are they (energizing sensations) sourced: and what is their fruit. But as well, I think, we question the ways and means.
We know a virtuous life faithful to the teachings of Christ and the church and devotion to God are the goal toward which we run the good race. We also know that others lead virtuous lives without these sensations – apparently. And it is fair to consider that we might just as well be leading virtuous lives too – maybe not more virtuous than others of our respective denominations and maybe -- not less virtuous either. However, some among us are receiving sensations. So, how might energy sensations be related then to growing in virtue, and how might God use such sensations for His kingdom – as Shasha questions?

Her question sent me once again out onto the Ponderosa – though (in truth) living in Jersey it’s more like a highway populated with numerous billboards that assault your every moment. Each clamors that you buy into its message or that you rely on its advertised product -- one, after another, after another. In biblical times and for a Mideast populace, the Spirit led Jesus and the early church fathers into the desert to be tested. These days, in Jersey at least, the desert is a dense-packed urban highway and whether you drive, bike, jog or walk, the billboards are in your face and looming. Difficult to see God’s sky!
These are the billboards I came across before returning to the security of my house and the room where I can close the door and pray.

First billboard: the Spanish woman.
Another billboard: Fasting. Prayer.
One billboard (a classic): actives vs contemplatives.
Another: stones to bread.
Yet another: Guardini and non-self evident
Then: Liberation theology
Next: John and Paul (but not the Beatles)
Next: Who do you say I am?
Then: The Creed
Then: Nero

Of course the highway where you dwell may have different signs. Then again, you may be in a state with few billboards and BIG SKY!

The Spanish woman: How is it that the ecstasies, raptures and levitations of a Spanish woman living in the 1500s (STA) had anything at all to do with a virtuous life and the building up of the church? Hmmm. What’s in a rapture? In a levitation?

Fasting: What is it about fasting that renders it effective and is somehow associated with spiritual power? Why might my forgoing a beer and a burger, or on some days not eating in-between meals or skipping meals enhance my prayer. Really, what is there to all that -- rationally? What is the relationship there? The disciples, ineffective at deliverance were told by Jesus that much prayer and fasting was required. Prayer: Really, why is it that a person saying words vocally, or thinking thoughts, or just being and not thinking can create change? Jesus said it does, and did so Himself. What is there about all that though? How does it enable a virtuous life? Why does it build up the church?

Actives vs contemplatives: Actives performing corporal works of mercy are readily seen as doing something. There is, and always has been, a tension between actives and contemplatives. The Mother Teresas feeding the poor and clothing the naked and tending to the sick are easily noted and affirmed by both the church and secular society for their virtue, and thereby they buildup the church by their obvious witness on the natural level. Martha & Mary. Who (in the world) would give a Nobel Peace Prize to some sister in a cloistered convent praying and fasting? Really? Would secular society even consider giving a Nobel to a Spanish woman who founded communities of woman who prayed their lives away?

Stones to bread: Satan, Judas, secular society – they all believe religion is worthless if it cannot turn stones to bread – cannot or does not end hunger, end suffering, eliminate poverty. Jesus said we would always have the poor among us. He said His kingdom was not of this earth. “Not on bread alone is man to live.” Satan, Judas, society – all want to ignore religion (the practice of the worship of God) the supernatural, the reality and revelation of God. The ‘here and now!’ is all over that billboard. Let’s have stones turned to bread, then we will believe, then we might adore even. Take away our misery first and perhaps we’ll repent.

Liberation theology: essentially similar to stones into bread, but with a noble feeling of spiritual self-esteem in emancipating and freeing others in the Here and now. Short on eschatological or religious focus. Supernatural graces play no part. Man’s action in service to man. God not required.

Guardini and non-self-evident: Guardini came to mind because I just read a quote of his. But it’s succinct and captures everything that applies. He points to the fact that the revelation of Jesus Christ is really a non-self-evident revelation. Why fasting has a spiritual effect, why prayer has a spiritual value, why the mystical graces of the Spanish woman made a difference, why the Here and now, as opposed to the eternal is not the end-all for man to focus upon, etc etc are non-self-evident realities and we as disciples of Christ believe in them because He revealed to us that these realities are crucial to our existence in the Here and now and in the eternal future. We put faith in this non-self-evident teaching based upon the authority of who we believe Christ is. Just that simple.

John and Paul: John says “Our testimony is true.” Paul says “There is no chaining the word of God.”

Who do you say I am?: This billboard asks and calls. So, what IS my response?

(Getting close to home, now).

The Creed: I believe in God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ His only Son…..my Lord!

I don’t understand the mechanism or spiritual / supernatural logic behind fasting, prayer, the mystical graces of the Spanish woman, nor the energizing sensations I experience and whether or not they, like those of the Spanish woman, will make a difference towards the life of the church. But I am in the church and putting faith in prayer, fasting, and the revelation of Christ – based on who I say He is. And I’m at the same time experiencing energizing sensations – which sensations I have no more understanding of than The Spanish woman’s sensations or of fasting for example. It’s all non-self-evident to me. Kind of a faith thing. I’ve had no involvement in the occult, and these sensations initiated in me during prayer.

Am I a whackodile for believing these sensations might indeed be grace? Or for believing that in some way, some day, they might have a positive affect in building up God’s church? TBD.

One thing I am certain of though – regarding the sensations—if I never had them, I would never have visited SP or made a post on the internet.

From the Ponderosa,
Pop-pop

p.s. Speaking of whackodiles: How about that Nero? I was listening to a CD series on the Early Christian Martyrs. Were you aware that Nero lit the driveway to his palace with the burning bodies of Christians? Kind of a kick discussion starter for the guests at his orgies.

p.p.s. Shasha, I just read your public post and really liked it. I had spent some time writing all this, so I decided to post it anyway.

Pop, Shasha, and Phil,

you already said everything that needed to be said, of course , but I want to say that the energy experience is like anything else in spiritual life (doesn't sound much profound, I know...).
I just thought that everything we feel or sense, or experience belongs in a way to our sensible part of the soul, just like "ordinary" feelings of love, joy, sadness, anger etc. They can be overwhelming sometimes, they can be absent for some time, they can lead us closer to God, they can be part of prayer, they can be misleading etc. So I look at kundalini activity in a similar way, although it can be more powerful than emotions or desires, more "deep", whatever that means.

But, trying to see it from a Thomist point of view, which I do a lot these days, energy activity is like a matter and our intellect/will is like a form. So energy experiences can be transformed into insights, understanding, wisdom, if they are supernatural they can give us even a revelation - our intellect feeds on them to understand and judge. Like Phil did in his book on kundalini - the energy gave him a new outlook on Christian life and God. On the other hand, our will also forms our energy experience through acts of intention. Like Shasha and Pop pointed out - we can "offer" our experience to Christ, we can use it to be closer to him, or it can be used by us as a distraction etc. If the energy is supernaturally infused, it can draw our will to God in an instant and put us in contemplative prayer.
But we are always free in our using of intellect and will, and kundalini is just another part of our whole experience of life - the experience that needs to be understood in relation to ultimate Truth, and needs to be ordered in relation to ultimate Good we all desire to possess after death. It sounds simple, but it's very difficult, at times at least.

But what we experience, as far as I observe people sharing at SP, seems to be that if the energy experience is ordained to Jesus, the Way, Truth and Life, than it's much more ordered and fruitful, than if it's not. Just like our experience of marriage, celibacy, work, fun, rest and so on.
What is great is that we can share here and together understand what does it mean, what's going on for us, and then decide what's best to do about it, to put it in the context of our deepest love and desire.

So it's good that the same things repeat themselves here. I like to be reminded of even simple things . Thanks.