I've taken this thread title and Christina's quote below from the book discussion thread:

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i focused intensely on the mystery's of the rosary and ran into the same problems.. ANY intense spiritual focus can do the same thing with k...

Ditto for me. Too much Rosary and the K goes way up. I have to remember to take into consideration (I know now) that there are untold thousands praying the Rosary throughout the day the world over (making it a very powerful prayer) because I connect quite easily to that stream.

I had been praying the Rosary on Christmas Eve and then reading of the Miracles of the Mother of God through my overnight work hours that night. I had to stop reading of the Mother's Miracles lest I fall into an ecstatic state there at work. By mid day, Christmas day, the K was way up, rising, smoothly, but quite intensely.

This year, I was praying quite actively, but I am wondering if any others experience increased kundalini activity during the Holy Seasons - Christmas, Easter? For even without praying as much as I am now, this has been true for me in past years.

Kristi

I noticed that, indeed, the spiritual experiences are more likely to occur during holy time, especially during the Eucharist. However, in my case, it's not a rule. For instance, from December 2006 until December 2008, and again from September 2009, when I got married, until this December, I experienced kundalini movements rarely and with little intensity, because I was in a state of relative aridity. In my case kundalini seems to be almost exclusively connected with contemplative graces - that's why I wonder sometimes if I've ever went through a classic kundalini awakening. It's rather that intense kundalini activity accompanies periods of contemplative graces, and when those particular graces are withdrawn, k is decreased considerably. So I think that kundalini is just a reaction to the activity of the HS.

But I remember that during the Easter and the Advent/Christmas experiences can be quite powerful. Christmas night this year I was given a powerful experience of Presence, Light and Love, accompanied by great energetic commotion. On the Morning, however, it went down again.

I wonder if you experience kundalini commotion all the time? I know that Phil does, at least that's what I remembered of his posts here. There was a time when I did regret that in my life there are months, or years even, when the energy is hardly noticeable (however, I might got used to it, so I don't pay attention to subtle movements of it). Now I see that this is working of God - during the "quiet time", I usually undergo some change on a psychic level or just have some work in the outer world to do, like in the first months of my marriage. I remember that father Keating wrote about it in one of his books, that the process can be like that - times of plateau and times, when there's a more intense purification. How's that in your case?

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I wonder if you experience kundalini commotion all the time? I know that Phil does, at least that's what I remembered of his posts here. There was a time when I did regret that in my life there are months, or years even, when the energy is hardly noticeable (however, I might got used to it, so I don't pay attention to subtle movements of it). Now I see that this is working of God - during the "quiet time", I usually undergo some change on a psychic level or just have some work in the outer world to do, like in the first months of my marriage. I remember that father Keating wrote about it in one of his books, that the process can be like that - times of plateau and times, when there's a more intense purification. How's that in your case?

Hi Mt,

If by kundalini commotion, you mean kundalini activity, yes, I'd say that I do experience it all of the time. As I have the time, I will write and share (post) the experience of my awakening.
Definately, spiritual practices intensify it for me.

I have been soberly considering my intentionality with my prayer life/spiritual pursuits in the past few days, for I am aware that spirituality has also been an addiction for me. In my case, this in great part goes back to my childhood. I think it is fair for me to say that the kundalini was always active in my life, even as a child. I personally think it accounts for the experience I shared of my nightly ascending into the universe when I was a child. That, and other spiritual experiences of my childhood. For me, "up and away" was better than bearing the pain of abuse as a a child. Still, this trips me up. Meaning I am aware that when I am negotiating some of the more difficult moments of my continued healing, a part of me would still prefer to go up and away. In this regard, spiritualty has been an escape for me. So, it is clear to me that I need to exercise greater awareness and intentionality in my prayer life, for I think my recent holiday experience was coopted by a motive to "be spiritual," escape my humanness and growing pains. It was, in a sense, a reply of my childhood "ascending."

But back to finish responding more directly to your question. During the period when I was lesser 'going away to spirituality,' and working more diligently (focused) through my analytical process, the kundalini was still (always) present, but with lesser intensity. During these times, I see it as having been the fuel (if you will) that was impelling my growth and healing. There was lesser spiritually 'fantastic' experiences to report. It was, as you say, more "subtle." I experienced it more as a constant background or underpinning, systematically brining my issues into the light of day, stirring/enabling the psycho-spiritual house cleaing in a sustained way. Ironic that depending on my intentionality, I can also use the kundalini to actually avoid life.

Kristi

Kristi, thanks for your response. I've been in a psychotherapy since 2006 for over 4 years and I noticed a thing similar to what you report - during intensive therapeutic work I experienced less things "to report" spiritually, which I interpreted as God "giving me time" to do therapy instead of spirituality. Now I think maybe it's a bit too simplistic an explanation. Perhaps, energy (kundalini or the Holy Spirit, or both) was working through therapeutic relationship, and what I understood as emotional process was driven by kundalini in the same way as "spiritual" stuff? It's an interpretation. When I try to pin-point the "activity" in my body I can say that whenever I'm in contact with my body I feel energy or I feel my body as energy. But isn't it normal, I mean for anyone who "feel" their body, through yogic or therapeutic exercise of awareness? Maybe I'm just used to it and I recognize as 'activity' only strong movement of energy. But I suppose there are people who experience energy in a very strong fashion continually and perhaps you're one of them. I remember other people on SP reporting constant "electric currents" through their body which I always understood as "strong" currents which I experience only in intense prayer state.

In what you write I can see the effects of your analysis. It's somehow moving to me to see that you discerning so clearly the ways in which your spirituality was an escape from life for you. I get what you mean, for me it was similar, even though I didn't experience so much trauma. In the process of therapy it's good to look into the unconscious motivation behind spirituality. But I'm tempted to say that you weren't only escaping - it was a way of dealing with your experience, and perhaps God gave you the grace by which you could find an asylum in your spirituality. Now you recognize the time to balance it, to be in touch with the external, "real" world, but for me it's not contradictory that you were "psychologically" dissociated from your experience and "spiritually" consolated by God at the same time. That's why I use quotation marks, I think we cannot really see them as distinct "levels", rather - ways of looking and understanding our human experience. I hope my observations are respectful of your boundaries, I don't want to "interpret" you or intefere with your analytic insight.

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I hope my observations are respectful of your boundaries, I don't want to "interpret" you or intefere with your analytic insight.

I find them very respectful and well meaning, Mt.

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Perhaps, energy (kundalini or the Holy Spirit, or both) was working through therapeutic relationship

This resonates as true in my own experience.

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whenever I'm in contact with my body I feel energy or I feel my body as energy. But isn't it normal, I mean for anyone who "feel" their body, through yogic or therapeutic exercise of awareness

I bolded the above words, because I do wonder if in fact this would be the case for "anyone" truly with the awareness to comprehend (feel/experience) the spiritual/energetic essence that actually indwells us. What accounts for this ability, in one verses another? Is it a grace? Is inhabiting one's body with awarness of the presence/spirit of God a grace? How does one move from mere intellectualization (understanding of concepts) to the felt experience of the Holy Spirit? These questions are more conversational risings as a result of our sharing.

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But I'm tempted to say that you weren't only escaping - it was a way of dealing with your experience, and perhaps God gave you the grace by which you could find an asylum in your spirituality. Now you recognize the time to balance it, to be in touch with the external, "real" world, but for me it's not contradictory that you were "psychologically" dissociated from your experience and "spiritually" consolated by God at the same time.

Thanks for that, Mt. I have said here before that it was a grace. I do believe it and I am thankful for it. I believe I was spared from a trauma that the child I was could not psycholgocially afford to experience, then. And yet I believe I developed a subpersonality that continued (and sometimes still) to operate in that manner, an aspect of me co-opted this ascending as a coping mechanism. As I seek the balance, to return fully, to be in the here and now, more fully (which I believe is where God's work is done), I have to take responsibility for this part of me. I trust it will become easier as increased light/clairty dawns on me.

Kristi

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I have been soberly considering my intentionality with my prayer life/spiritual pursuits in the past few days, for I am aware that spirituality has also been an addiction for me. . .

Kristi, I know what you're saying, here, in that people can use and pursue spiritual experience as a means of escape. But true spirituality is really the antidote to any kind of addiction, including addiction to spiritual experience. At least in Christianity, spirituality entails embracing all of who we are, body, psyche and spirit, as well as working to heal those wounded parts of ourselves and our relationships as well. It also calls us to service, which takes the focus off of our own problems. I like the Twelve Steps of recovery groups because they were derived from Christian practice and seem to cover some basic movements in the spiritual life.

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I wonder if you experience kundalini commotion all the time? I know that Phil does, at least that's what I remembered of his posts here.

I wouldn't describe it as "commotion." I can almost always notice "something" going on somewhere, but it's usually peaceful and even enjoyable. When I push too hard in some area of life (usually reading, writing -- mental concentration), things can get out of balance and the energy whacky and even painful for awhile, but that's become the exception rather than the rule. I can usually tell when that's about to happen and if I back off a bit, take a break, go do something different, it's OK.

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Originally posted by Phil:
But true spirituality is really the antidote to any kind of addiction, including addiction to spiritual experience.

That's the medicine I need, Phil.

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At least in Christianity, spirituality entails embracing all of who we are, body, psyche and spirit, as well as working to heal those wounded parts of ourselves and our relationships as well.

This is my goal, to learn to embrace all aspects of my self and my relationships with others and life.

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It also calls us to service, which takes the focus off of our own problems.

This is important, for I sure know what it means to be too wrapped up/absorbed with one's issues. I am going to look for opportunities to become more involved.

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I like the Twelve Steps of recovery groups because they were derived from Christian practice and seem to cover some basic movements in the spiritual life.

If I could find a truly good 12 Steps Support Group, I would attend. Are there churches that sponsor/host Christian based 12 Steps groups? Coming back to edit in: I know that many churches lend their space to 12 Steps groups. I am actually wondering if there might be any 12 Step groups in my area actually "hosted" by "Christian" fellowships. I will look into it. I know some 12 Steps groups can be rather dysfunctional. I don't want yet another crutch, dependency...some actually become that, me thinks.

Kristi

quote:

Originally posted by KristiMarie:
...I have been soberly considering my intentionality with my prayer life/spiritual pursuits in the past few days, for I am aware that spirituality has also been an addiction for me. In my case, this in great part goes back to my childhood. I think it is fair for me to say that the kundalini was always active in my life, even as a child. I personally think it accounts for the experience I shared of my nightly ascending into the universe when I was a child. That, and other spiritual experiences of my childhood. For me, "up and away" was better than bearing the pain of abuse as a a child. Still, this trips me up. Meaning I am aware that when I am negotiating some of the more difficult moments of my continued healing, a part of me would still prefer to go up and away. In this regard, spiritualty has been an escape for me. So, it is clear to me that I need to exercise greater awareness and intentionality in my prayer life, for I think my recent holiday experience was coopted by a motive to "be spiritual," escape my humanness and growing pains. It was, in a sense, a reply of my childhood "ascending."

...Ironic that depending on my intentionality, I can also use the kundalini to actually avoid life.

Kristi

Thanks for your honesty here, Kristi. It is refreshing, and quite rare, to see somebody who has benefitted so much from the on-going work of therapy, in particular, the pattern of using k/spirituality to avoid life/reality.

I can relate to what you share about childhood pain leading to k. as a means of coping. I suspect that happened to me also when I'd 'go' into some vast, inner space when I went to bed at night beginning around age seven. For you it was "up and away," whereas for me it was "in and away." It was a wonderful comfort, to fly around in a velvety, seemingly infinite dimension, much happier than the misery of my external world. I can see how people can get hooked and much prefer these things to dealing with mundane tasks of living in a broken world.

It seems you and Mt are saying there may be a fine line in 'using' energy experiences as important means of self-soothing and an over-reliance on them at the expense of more adaptive ways of dealing with our wishes/impulses in relating to the world. Only the Father knows how this needs to happen for each one of us.

Christ's love to you guys, and may He bless your intentions with God's own will.

quote:

Originally posted by KristiMarie:
...Are there churches that sponsor/host Christian based 12 Steps groups? Coming back to edit in: I know that many churches lend their space to 12 Steps groups. I am actually wondering if there might be any 12 Step groups in my area actually "hosted" by "Christian" fellowships. ...Kristi

Hi Kristi,

Have you heard of Celebrate Recovery? They're a Christian-based 12-step program I believe.

with love,
Shasha

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Have you heard of Celebrate Recovery? They're a Christian-based 12-step program I believe.

Ah... Thank you for this, Shasha. No, I had not heard of them, and was not finding any Christian based groups the way I ran my search strings. There ARE some Celebrate Recovery groups in my area! Hooray!

I did find that Father Keating has written a book on the 12 Steps that receives high praise. And that Phil has a book on 12 Steps, too. I will be filling my shopping cart soon

Thanks again.

with love,
Kristi

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I had to be the best in everything I did ... Because deep down inside I never felt good enough for my parents, my teammates, my girlfriends or anyone.

I borrowed the above from Pastor John's testimony on www.celebraterecovery.com. I can't tell you how much I related to his testimony.

I was standing at my kitchen counter early yesterday evening and I felt how long and how hard I have been trying to be something or someone other than who and what I am. Seeing that hurts.

Despite the early life abuse, I was always a high functioning person, honor roll student (most of the time), excelled in my military career - promoted way ahead of my peers, graduated all my professional and leadership schools with honors, earned other awards/honors/accolades, etc. But you know, none of it was ever good enough. It would have never mattered how much I may have achieved, none of any of it mattered because I was without God, without God's love, without the love of Christ.

Later in his testimony, Pastor John writes:

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I was a walking and talking paradox: A combination of the lowest possible self-esteem, which I tried to cover up with the worlds largest ego.

I've known for years now that because I felt so less than, I pretended to be more than. Despite my knowledge/understanding of this, this aspect of the false self has continued to operate in me.

Reading from the Celebrate Recovery website, I find my self saying, "Run, don't walk, there," to the group. Meaning, "Go." And I am!

Kristi

Hi Kristi,

I was just thinking yesterday evening too that you would benefit from being involved with a Christ-centered group like Celebrate Recovery. You are hungry to receive (as well as having much to give). In such groups, I find the Holy Spirit is present to provide empathy and tenderness in the most humble and simple ways. (No prior mystical experiences necessary to qualify). These groups can often be the "hands and feet" of Jesus without fanfare, and very grounding.

BTW, Last night, I was thinking of posting the Celebrate Recovery website on its own thread to alert people to this resource. (I did notice there are a few groups in Kansas ).

Also, Phil's 12-step book is excellent!

God's love,
Shasha

Hi Shasha,

I like that:

quote:

No prior mystical experiences necessary to qualify

I need a good healthy dose of "NORMAL."

There are actually four groups I can choose from in the very near vicinity. I am going shortly to attend one. A good way for me to ring in my New Year!

I look forward to reading both Phil's and Father Keating's books.

Kristi