has anyone ever talked on here about the possibility that this is a form of soul breaking by the devil with the use of demons and our goal here is to let go?

sftm:

I'm not clear on your question. Are you asking whether or not kundalini phenomena might be intrinsically evil?

yes. i am asking if anyone has considered that yet?
and talked about the pros and cons.

sftm:

We've had some fundamentalist Christians, or those with that in their background, come to SP and post with concerns about kundalini being condemned or treated as evil, although most of them, as I recall, come here not really believing deeply that to be true of their own experience. Usually kundalini awakens according to the person's ability to tolerate increasing awareness, and that can include repressed aspects of the soul showing child abuse that wasn't formerly known or felt. But it is usually a bumpy ride, although less so if one isn't alone in trying to understand it.

Another way to look at kundalini is simply as a resevoir of longing attempting to reach the heart for transformation; this includes especially all the dark stuff we don't like to face. Any prolonged prayer life, with the Holy Spirit's anointing, can awaken kundalini, since all our longings, however distorted, seek their healthy expression in the heart and therefore need this process to some degree.

But the difference between the Holy Spirit and kundalini is quite obvious experientially. You might look at the thread "Kundalini and the Holy Spirit."

I've only recently come across the testimony by a Belgian priest, Verlinde, who was an occultist, had a supposed kundalini awakening and then converted into Christianity and became a priest. I didn't read his books, but read some texts online.
He thinks that it's ok if the Hindus or Buddhists follow their paths to salvation, but if Christians turn to the East, he thinks it's betrayal.
He also think that kundalini has sth to do with evil. He says that chakras are related to the spirits of the universe, natural forces, which he calls demonic forces, and he says that when chakras are opened we "cooperate" with those forces and risking to become enslaved.
It sounds a bit like Shasha's experience, but I don't think it's true. Risk - ok, but chakras themselves seem to me no more dangerous than lungs or liver.
Have you read Verlinde? I don't know if he's translated/read in English.

Mt, I've not read Verlinde, but have been assured many times by well-meaning Christians that kundalini is dangerous, of the devil, etc. Might as well say that libido or the unconscious are evil and dangerous (well, come to think of it, some of these folks do). W.C.'s comment above about k being a "reservoir of longing attempting to reach the heart for transformation" is spot-on. I'd add that, once transformed, it's also working to engineer the embodiment of higher consciousness. Nothing dangerous or evil about that, especially if it's not one's goal, but a consequence of one's spiritual growth.

I've never understood this notion that evil is somehow more likely to show up in higher states of consciousness, or in the unconscious. Seems to me it does far more damage through emotional acting out, and even through cool, logical reasoning. It was not higher consciousness that gave us racism, the nuclear arms race, the holocaust, etc. It's the values one lives by that are of the most importance, especially one's religious values. In my experience, these values provide formative influences for integrating kundalini.

Hey Mt., Thanks for the reference on Verlinde. I'll add him to my pile of conversion stories, folks who've had run-ins with false gods, spirit guides, etc.

I found this brief blurb on him (not much out there in English that I could find):

http://www.ccr.org.uk/archive/gn0711/g01.htm

Although I don't believe kundalini is intrinsically evil, I do wonder: on what does Verlinde base his conclusions about k. being evil? What would cause somebody to reason this? The blurb above doesn't say, but his discovery that his clarvoiant and healing powers were not of God is very interesting to me unto my study of Christ's healing ministry.

Peace and God's love to you,
Shasha

Interesting article on Fr. Verlinde, but I don't understand, either, the basis for considering k and open chakras to be "evil." He'd better not take too seriously the meaning of those auras around the heads of saints in Christian art, or even of flaming hearts, stars on the forehead, and even diadems on the throat. I wonder how he'd describe the body-soul interface, and how information moves from one to the other? As in so many cases, it seems he's using his own recovery and healing as paradigmatic for everyone.

quote:

As in so many cases, it seems he's using his own recovery and healing as paradigmatic for everyone.

That's a danger, isn't it. My own k and resulting shift in consciousness has opened up an experience of evil that bothered me in this regard, thinking it might be a general blueprint for higher consciousness. I see it now as part of my own karma, if you like, or more to the point, a path of purification.

I would suggest, however, that raising consciousness is more likely to lead to occult evil than a more rational, logical, reductive way of thinking, and that while evils such as racism, nuclear threat, and the holocaust are undoubted expressions of ill will, they perhaps don't embody the spiritual evil that most folks would refer to as being a consequence of raising consciousness. So then, if a mind or spirit opens out into higher spiritual planes, it's likely to encounter any number of forms of otherness, and this may or may not include spiritual evil. I don't think it's a natural consequence of k or higher consciousness, just part of it for some people.

I really respect Phil and w.c.'s boundless insight into the kundalini/Christianity path - I've learned so much - but occasionally I feel as if that aspect of the k journey (the opening up to spiritual realms, beings, evil, even energetic bonding), admittedly my own, but also Shasha's and others, is downplayed, though not entirely ignored, in comparison to the psychological/inner aspects of the story. This may be a wiser, more rational approach, but it doesn't always resonate with my own journey.

Yes; it's complex, but that is a good way of putting it, imo: our internal state will resonate with the spiritual world.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: w.c.,

Sorry if you've felt discounted at times, Stephen, as that hasn't been the intent, as I hope you know. It's clarifying that you qualify your remarks to mean a connection between higher consciousness and occult evil. I can see that, only, as w.c. noted, I think the vulnerability to evil isn't so much related to higher consciousness per se as to other factors. E.g., in your own case, as I recall, it was your exposure to the services of a new age psychic that wounded you; in Shasha's, involvement with Easternish disciplines. I take these struggles and the possibility of evil spirit ensnarements seriously, and I do believe this to be one of the pitfalls of seeking higher consciousness, enlightenment, etc. apart from an explicit religious context -- preferably a Christian one. Even if there were no evil spirits to complicate things, our metaphysical woundedness (from the Fall) is such that it's extremely difficult to sustain peace and balance in higher consciousness apart from the stabilizing influence of Christ and the Spirit. That's why I've never, ever encouraged anyone to seek kundalini awakening or opening the higher chakras as ends in themselves. Unfortunately, many have done so, almost always with good intentions, hoping to be more "awake" or at one with everything. Such experiences are sometimes realized for awhile, but almost always with negative consequences, none the least of which can be this vulnerability to evil spirit.

All that said, I do believe that a great deal of what is attributed to the influence of evil spirit can often be explained in psychological terms. It also seems to me that there's a widespread tendency to view the actors on one's personal stage to be God, Ego and Satan, with little consideration being given to the unconscious. Jim Arraj has written about this in many essays on innerexplorations.com.
- E.g. http://innerexplorations.com/chtheomortext/lack.htm

So, it's a complicated topic, and need not be a matter of either/or with respect to human/diabolical influences unto evil. Catholicism has a long, deeply-considered tradition of sorting this out, with specific criteria to indicate diabolical possession (one wonders whether the current Vatican exorcist makes much use of this). Between possession and complete freedom, there are many possibilities, including harassments of all kinds. I think it's quite possible, for example, that ordinary human anger is often amplified through the influence of evil spirits, who can read the human energy field, including the thoughts we're irresponsibly "broadcasting" out into the universe. Spirits can communicate telepathically with us, introducing negative thoughts into our own field of consciousness, stirring things up more than we'd be doing on our own. I don't think "the devil makes us do it" is a good excuse for our bad behavior, but it surely diminishes our freedom to act lovingly. What I do believe the devil seeks most is to ruin relationships, and there are innumerable ways to do this apart from involvement in the occult, which has its own peculiar dangers, to be sure.

No need to apologise, Phil. My slight niggle is nothing compared to what I've gleaned here at SP and the support that's come my way. And of course, you're right. It helps to explore higher consciousness in a specific framework. I just happened to choose the wrong one at the start of my journey. I suppose anyone who comes to Christ is exploring higher states of consciousness - doesn't Paul tell us in Colossians to seek the things which are above where Christ is seated in the heavenlies.

The question I suppose being addressed on the False Gods threads was what particular settings or framework, religious or otherwise, were healthy and safe to explore or rest in these higher states. I can testify to the increased stability and peace of a Christian path as opposed to the rather shallow, precarious setting of the New Age. I'm also keenly aware of evil spirits taking advantage of wounds and insecurities, particularly wayward sexual longings, and the connections between our inner world and the spiritual realms, which is why I believe a purely psychotherapeutic approach to k doesn't tell the whole story. OTOH, I totally agree that one can invest the demons with more power or influence than they actually have as an excuse for bad behaviour, which is why the psychotherapeutic framework, with a Christian grounding, is probably a good place to start.

quote:

Originally posted by samson:
...I would suggest, however, that raising consciousness is more likely to lead to occult evil than a more rational, logical, reductive way of thinking, ... So then, if a mind or spirit opens out into higher spiritual planes, it's likely to encounter any number of forms of otherness, and this may or may not include spiritual evil. I don't think it's a natural consequence of k or higher consciousness, just part of it for some people.

...

And doesn't most occult evil actually rely upon operating in/ manipulating the supernatural world. And the supernatural world is more accessible to those with kundalini awakening.

Furthermore, there are greater temptations, like siddhis/powers, that are presented to those manipulating kundalini energies. We all know this to be true. And these powers can certainly corrupt us frail, love-starved, power-hungry creatures, yes?

Quite right, shasha. Higher consciousness has its unique temptations and pitfalls, especially if people become attached to these states or seek them outside a religious context (most preferably, Christianity).

What I hear in your post Stephen is the pride implicit in seeking "I am that," which in various forms represents some of the New Age thinking. When you speak of a "reductive way," what comes to mind are three dispositions which always imply the soul's dependence upon God: "Praise, Gratitude and Love." Even anyone simply following the love in his or her own heart as it leads to depth upon depth will encounter a greater love than the soul can generate. We can bump into God in this way, since He's always seeking us, although the idea of Divine Indwelling is anything but "I am that." If our wills are already disposed to englightenment for its own sake, then a relationship of surrender has been precluded. The further into the heart the more obvious this is, i.e., that we don't own that vast domain, and receive our life moment to moment in ways consciousness cannot possibly account for causally.