Two weeks ago I had a most unusual dream experience that maybe worth sharing in this discussion. I was present in some sort of classroom and was watching the instructor teach on the techniques of how to test a human head to see if it was ready for eating. Bizarre, I know, but in this dream I had no recollection of being offended by the content of the lessons being taught. I was very matter-of-factly there to learn what was being taught. The gross ugliness and utter darkness of the dream didn�t register inside me until I did awake. Often when in a nightmare I can wake myself up but this time there wasn�t even a desire to wake myself up during the dream.

When I did awake, I was also beside myself. I was upset and near to throwing up from the content of the dream. I don�t even watch horror movies because of the morbid content. But this dream was something akin to a calculated cannibalism. I was undone! Where did this come from? I was haunted by the question. Not even in my darkest imagination did anything like this dream ever occur. Was this some kind of attack on my psyche? Was I losing my mind?

I had a strange awareness that this dream did come from within me but that it also came from somewhere beyond me. A lay in bed not wanting to wake my wife and have to answer questions, but tossed and writhed in a dark place... a place I had never visited before. The darkness, the only words I have for it, seemed to consume me to the point that I was lost there. And then I recalled that earlier this same week I had a certain experience with God from the gospel of Luke where Jesus bid Peter to �Launch out into the deep and let down your nets for a catch.� As I read that scripture these words spoke as a call to me as well as Peter in the story. And in response to this call� without knowing what I was agreeing too, I said �Yes Lord,� in response. My response brought tears to my eyes at the time, and I remember wondering just what I had done and what it all meant. But the word �deep� in those words to Peter seemed to be the issue somehow.

It was at this point, while laying in bed that recalled what I had agreed to a few days before. I was left wonder if this ugly, dark , hideous dream was somehow coming from the depths of me. Why was God showing me this? What could this possibly mean? I was profoundly desperate to know? And all I could do was pray and writhe and wish that God would come.

I remember thinking that up until now I had thought that my sins were somehow manageable with enough prayer and communion with God. But now here I am and I seem to be coming apart so much that I have to question even the very foundations of myself. O God what I am left with?
Hours past. Maybe two. Then God broke through.

I was deeply assured that even now God did love me... that God had no intention of abandoning me in my deepest moment of darkness. In fact that this very darkness was an expression of something more universal in creation. This menacing hideous darkness was the very reason Christ came to earth. And in that moment of deepest lonely darkness, the glory of God began to shine. I mean this was a light like no other I had ever been in. I remember a glory so deep and pervading that I was to see nothing. There was no contrast left in my mind�s eye. All that existed was light and I was lost there. I had a sensation of being lifted from my bed as if by some unseen rope at my chest. And there I was suspended in light until I was lost there. I no longer had any awareness of self. I wasn�t there. I just wasn�t. All there was is light. And then there was deep sleep like I had never known. At least I awoke the next morning, though things were different.

Today (two weeks later) I have a lingering sense of the fading light. Yet, God is very close and there is a moment by moment whispering going on between us. I am still undone although less than I was. This whole experience was simply overwhelming. I do remember the darkness at it�s deepest. And I see my own sin as it goes back to this same reservoir of the deepest evil. I can say I don�t really fear it now. Somehow there is a confidence that God�s love goes even deeper for us all than hell itself whatever that may be.

As I share this I�m aware some may think I�m really crazy. And maybe so. At this point I�m not too worried about it. I have experienced the light of God and I can say, in God there is no darkness at all!

Hi Danny,
I havn't read your whole post but LOVE to talk about dreams. I think this is a very good dream, sometimes the weirdest ones are.. But I have to go to work now. Don't worry about the dream. It seems like good sign to me..
Peace Love nd Joy, virya

I have not had 1/1000 the experience you had. But I have had my share of bizarre dreams. And then some. And, frankly, I think I can tell by the quite astute, sincere, and competent way that you have related your experience that you are far from crazy, are not even a smidgen of a fibber about this, and are trying your best to tell it like it is.

Your challenge now, at least in my opinion, is to not try to hold onto that experience in the sense of trying to recreate it or keep that spiritual "buzz". It might be helpful to guard against any sort of "let down" from having such an amazing experience behind you and, probably, a string of rather normal life-like-it-always-was ahead of you. Of course, something will always be different now. Things like this do tend to fade but I was reminded of something I have long thought about in regards to the Transcendent, to god. I have always thought it desirable to have such an experience, to finally know once and for all if all this God stuff was real. And yet I see why, possibly, that any Divine Creature would keep a gentle distance. Such contact can be as deforming as it is transforming if we're not careful. And I readily admit that I'm not mature enough to handle something like you had, Danny.

But you must be. And so I would suggest thinking of this as a door being opened out from a darkened room. The glare of the outer, brighter, lighter world can be blinding until our eyes adjust. But they adjust. And thus you walk, and continue walking. You may have other such experiences. Perhaps there will be a chain of them to guide you on to some transformation. But I�m guessing that it is more likely that was sort of a wake-up call and, having woken up at least a bit, you won't need to be rapped over the head again�at least so hard. You might start to see incredible, wonderful things in the things that were always there in front of you. That, perhaps, is our all of our spiritual goal.

Anyway, Danny, I haven't a clue what's really going on in your life, but this might provide at least a few ideas to bounce off of.

Glad you posted this, Danny. Welcome to this forum, which is a tad different from the premium groups.

Your dream seems to have opened the door to contact with the depths of evil that lie hidden deep in our human nature. I do not mean to be speaking, here, of our personal unconscious, but the deeper, collective unconscious to which we are all connected in some mysterious way. There is light there, but also a cesspool of filth and malevolence, the likes of which far exceed in intensity and kind anything most people can relate to in their ordinary struggles with temptation (e.g. lust, resentment, jealousy, envy, etc.). From time to time, this stuff breaks through into the culture and spews forth like a volcano (Rwanda, Hitler's Germany, Stalin's reign, Pol Pot, Mao, etc.). We see it and cannot fathom how such things can happen, yet there it is, deep down inside of all of us. And if the conditions are right, we can be led, step-by-step into cooperating with this evil just as rationally and normally as you describe yourself doing at the beginning of the dream.

It seems this dream is showing you that, and that this awareness was also intended to help you recognize your utter powerlessness in the face of the depth and magnitude of this evil. That the Light came to steady you confirms this, as I don't think God allows one who calls upon Him to linger very long in such horror. It was to break the hold of this depth of evil that Christ came; had he not done so, the race would have been increasingly under its sway and we would have been doomed to a fate of ultimately creating hell on earth. But he did break its hold through his death on the cross and descent to sheol, which is a metaphysical reference to that deep realm. No longer is it a realm belonging to darkness; there is now a way through it into the Light of God's heaven.

I think there's merit in some of the other interpretations being offered. As always, with dreams, there are many ways to look at things. Your own associations are first and foremost the most relevant, and it was to those that I tried to address my remarks.

Your dream seems to have opened the door to contact with the depths of evil that lie hidden deep in our human nature. I do not mean to be speaking, here, of our personal unconscious, but the deeper, collective unconscious to which we are all connected in some mysterious way. There is light there, but also a cesspool of filth and malevolence, the likes of which far exceed in intensity and kind anything most people can relate to in their ordinary struggles with temptation (e.g. lust, resentment, jealousy, envy, etc.).

I don't understand it. I don't even necessarily want to agree with it esthetically or ontologically. But I must say that if I were to list every dream I've had over the last four years, it would anchor what you said, Phil, with so much evidence that it would be scary.

Hi Danny,

Wow, it just amazes me how much Truth is available to us no matter what spiritual traditions influence the way we conceptulize it.

When I first read your post yesterday,I only had time to read the 1st two paragraphs, and had a very strong intuitive hit on it, colored by my own conceptual paradigms. In dream classes with a local Jungian ananlyst, we'd take turns sharing what each persons dream meant to us. She said every dream of every dreamer has revelence for everyone, because we all share in the collective consciousness. On the other hand, Amma, and many other eastern Masters, tell us not to waste time analyzing our dreams, that it is akin to ananlyzing our garbage. That when we are truly WIDE AWAKE we no longer dream, but rather are in a constant state of witnessing. We see that all of life is a sort of dream itself. Well, I certainly am not that awake, although I do have occassional time periods where that happens, as many of us most likely do.

So meanwhile, I still find dreams fascinating. And personally, I think there is A LOT we can learn from analyzing our garbage. If anyone looked through my garbage or trash, they'd know a lot about what I eat, read, how I spend my time and money etc and even a bit about how I might be feeling based on those choices. So all that said, my initial hit on the dream was completely different then Phils,' but I liked what he had to say about it and concur.

My concepts have also been very inlfuenced by more eastern traditions and more recently by my experience with Amma, the Hugging Saint. Many feel She is an incarnation of Kali, and that is my experience of Her. (In Hinduism, Kali symbolizes the most compassionate, yet most fierce and fearless aspect of the Divine Feminine. She is depicted as a grotesque many armed dark goddess, sword in one nand, heads in the others. She cuts off the head, the ego, in other words our ingnorance, in order to allow us to move more deeply into our hearts) And for me, the very fact that Amma is here on the planet today, in a physical emodiment of that aspect of Divinity, is an indication that this is the next step for hunamnity, or at least any one who is truly aspiring for Christ Consciousness. And certainly all the darkness that seems to be in our face these days, is another indication of a call for humanity to move more deeply into our hearts.

So that sort of concurs with how I received Phil interpretation and wiht the experience you had with the Luke scripture and the Light experience afterwards. You were saying "YES" to the Lord to moving deeper into humaniitis "heart of darkness" into the depths of the sea.

I am just now re-exploring my Christian roots, so I don't know if where I go with this is reflective of traditional Christian mysticism. But for me, when Christ said "Follow Me" I think he meant it ALL THE WAY into the 'descending into Hell' part...I thihk any true disciple of Christ, has to fully embrace, accept, transform and resurrect withing themselves, not only our own darkness, but that of the collective consciousness in order to grow more and more in union with the Light of God, which your experienc afterwards affirms. And of course we need Gods help and grace from those who have gone before us, to do so. This is why I love Amma so much, and receive darshan from Her as much as possible. But true devotionm, done with an proper understanding of the principles behind it, will do the same thing. Both help make our own journey lighter.

My initial hit one the dream:
The fact that you were with a professor, is an indication of being in a place of higher learning, an initiation so to speak. The fact that you felt neutral in the dream about something that shocked you ( as it most likely would any of us) in waking life, was an indication of your souls willingness to be accepting of darkness...which is a very powerful sign to me.

Upon waking your 'conscious mind' with all it's conventional precepts had to catch up with your heart and souls own deeper knowing and receptivity. ( which was precipitated by your conscious mind willfully aligning with the Christ will, per your prayer) and once you made the connection again in prayer, it was filled with the Light of Gods grace, because YOU willingly embraced the darkness, just as God embraces the darkness.

Thank you so much for sharing your dream. It gave me much hope. You are clearly doing some deep soul work.

You were saying "YES" to the Lord to move deeper into the heart of darkness of humanity. I am just now re-exploring my Christian roots, so I don't know if where I go with this is reflective of what Christian mysticysm. But for me, when Christ said "Follow Me" I think he meant it all the way into the 'descending into Hell' part...I thihk any true disciple of Christ, has to fully embrace, accept, transform and resurrect not only our own darkness, but that of the collective consciousness in order to grow more and more in union with the light of God, which your experienc afterwards affirms.

I, too, like what Phil had to say. And I�m incredibly intrigued and impressed (perhaps even moved) by that interpretation, Pauline.

The fact that you felt neutral in the dream about something that shocked you in waking life, was an indication of your souls willingness to be accepting of darkness...which is a very powerful sign to me.

That�s such a potentially touchy subject, one bound to drive, say, Bible belt fundamentalists or politically correct liberals crazy. Darkness, of course, must be resisted, repelled and thrown off at all costs � at least in some minds.

And surely, evil things ought to be repelled and defeated. But there�s a life-sustaining and life-fulfilling subtlety that can be steamrolled over if we start to label every uncomfortable things as �evil� and keep our distance from all things that challenge us. We can, as humans, too easily label as �evil� that which is merely different and challenging. And god knows, life doesn�t pour itself out to us in easily distinguishable helpings of �this is good� and �this is bad�. Much of life is not so clear-cut.

However you slice it, that sure sounds like Danny had a most positive dream.

Danny's dream triggered a memory of a dream I had once which deeply disturbed me in my waking state too, even though I was fairly calm during the dream. I've gotten many different interpreations of it over time and would be very interested in hearing some of your reflections on it. I think it makes a difference that I am a woman who dreamed this. So it might be interesting to hear what you think it means for me as woman and AND what you think it would mean if you dreamed it as an observer of the woman and man. I've always heard it's best to tell dreams in present tense so that is how I tell it. I always dream in color and in this dream,it was like I was watching my self in the dream rather then observing from the active participant perspective....but at times I was both. The events leading up to the dream are no doubt pertinent, but I'll share the before and after, after your responses, as it might give more insight.

DREAM:
I climb to the top of a light house tower on the ocean. A well respected, well loved spiritual teacher in the community I was involved with is there. (I knew this man in real life, as part of a real community. I was not as quick to trust him as others were and was still a little wary of him)

So he is there at the top. He's standing in the center, on the left against the wall as I face him. We are on the roof of the tower, and he is leaning against a 4to 5 foot retaining wall. I notice there are many dead or dying, half eatten, bloody bodies of small animals and human beings all over the floor. Then I notice he is dressed as a vampire. I realize had been feeding on these people and was waitting for me. Just as I realize that he sees me and comes after me... I run to the other side of the tower and climb a short flight of stairs, up to a 1/2 floor higher level, towards a small look out tower. In the middle of the stairs there is a small arched window, about chest high. I manage to narrowly escape from him just as he reaches out for me..almost catching my ankle. I fly into the night sky, and he leaps out to fly after me. But the minute he starts flying, there is no fear of him and we fly together in bliss. I am no longer afraid of him as he is no longer after me. He is no longer a vampire. There's is a deep feeling of peace and unity. But then, he he gets distracted by an electical wire short circuit..far off to the right..like on a telephone wire..and flys awayto investigate. I just keep flying in the same direction. he never comes back

Thanks folks....Virya

But the minute he starts flying, there is no fear of him and we fly together in bliss. I am no longer afraid of him as he is no longer after me. He is no longer a vampire. There's is a deep feeling of peace and unity. But then, he he gets distracted by an electical wire short circuit..far off to the right..like on a telephone wire..and flys awayto investigate. I just keep flying in the same direction. he never comes back

That�s an extremely intriguing dream, Pauline, especially that sudden change-of-pace when you start flying and all is bliss. If that were a horror flick I would have walked out on it! Too improbable! But as a dream, it�s fantastic.

I would interpret the teacher as your internal critical self�that part we all have that eats away at us, that tries to trip us up as we attempt to climb. And then we reach the top, jump off, reach bliss, and realize that thing was an imposter, wasn�t nearly as powerful or dangerous as we thought, and is, frankly, somewhat irrelevant and superfluous to our lives as we get a glimpse of when this guy flies off chasing a short circuit much like a distracted dog who just caught sent of a cat or something.

It�s interesting how the dream suddenly changes when you fly off into the night, as does your tormentor. I would tend to interpret your flying as having escaped from the �should-do�s� and �must-do�s� of our heavy, responsibility-laden earthly lives. And once free of the weight of your own expectations, and those of other people, you free yourself�and others. That�s why you both fly in bliss and why he flies off in another direction.

That�s my rough interpretation, anyway.

Thanks Brad that was different from anything else I've heard so far and very insightful..makes sense to me, as did all the others. I want to wait to hear from others before telling what preceeded it.

I want to wait to hear from others before telling what preceeded it.

Very good idea. And just for kicks I could tell you how the lighthouse was just a big phallic symbol and that jumping off, and out of its influence, was just a way to escape those nasty, demanding beings called men.

If I were an angry feminist, Pauline, that�s how I would have interpreted it. Bottom line, I do think people who are experienced in dream interpretation can avoid at least some of their own projections. But I think it is absolutely inherent in the nature of the beast that interpreting dreams reveals ourselves probably more than the original dreamer. I think you hinted at this when you said dreams were part of the collective unconscious�or something like that. I�m just going from rough memory on that point.

I do hope Danny has a word or two more to say.

Hmmm..that's a GREAT insight Brad. I can't believe that I or any of my friends never thought of the lighthouse as a phallic symbol. They knew the whole story though...which I am now seeing from a new perspective thanks to your insight....so thank you thank you for that.

Given that one of my alter ego's is a sort of Mae West persona (for Hallween anyway) I am very suprised I didn't see it. And just so you know, Mae West is a much better reflection of my feminist tendancies or persona. In fact, I never related to or alligned myself with any feminist thinking at all, I just always went about doing what I wanted to do, only to find out later it was more much more liberated then the social norms around me in south Louisianna. My parents were Canadien though, and my Dad a closet bi-sexual, both of which I feel had alot to to do with my more liberal minded persona and my poltical apathy. My parents didn't know beans about American history, so I was not as endoctricnated into American idealogies or patriotism as most Americans. My siblings were a little bitmore then I was, for some reason. I even wrote a paper about it in a college poli-sci class: "The Socialization of an Apathetic Citizen" I made an "A" on it too..! He was another kind of cute professor that got my attention..., but mostly because he actually succeeded in making poli- science interesting to me, and anyone that could do that, I felt deserved some respect and my best efforts)
I do however have some anger about some male female issues at this point in my life. But I am more concerned with trying to raise awareness about what I feel are the root causes of oppresssion, and not just womens' oppression, but the whole feminine psyche, in men and women. So I am doing my darndest to introduce things that I feel assist in healing that problem.. It's been a big part of my journey actually and I keep getting messages that it is part of my purpose..sort of dharmic you know? And creating change does at times inevitably create friction. But hey..we all know how good just the right amount of friction can feel right?
"Where there is friction, there is heat, where there is heat, there is light, where there is light, there is transformation"
(Just a little massage therapy wisdom to chew on. I find true wisdom is usually applicable to all areas of life...)
LOL, Virya

I do however have some anger about some male female issues at this point in my life. But I am more concerned with trying to raise awareness about what I feel are the the root causes of oppesssion, and not just womens oppession, but the whole feminine psyche, in men and women. And am doing my darndest to introduce things that I feel assist in healing the problem.

Actually, I consider that a most enlightened and balanced approach.

And creating change does at times inevitably create friction. But hey..we all know how good just the right amount of friction can feel right?

That�s an insight that is as eloquent as they come�and as Mae Westish. Bravo.

Brad hoped I would chime back in here sometime. So here goes. I am awed by the divine wisdom of God and how our spiritualities are uniquely taylored to fit each one of us. I'm thinking of my original dream posted earlier now and considering how that same dream could have wrecked someone else's spiritual life had he/she not been opened to it. It's the same with this friction idea. One person's pleasure point turns out to be another person's blister, or even that which drives them to insanity. We are fearfully and wonderfully made.

Hi Danny, and welcome! I'm not really in a dream
interpereting mode at present, but might chime in later if some thing comes to me... sweetdreams! -mm

I'm thinking of my original dream posted earlier now and considering how that same dream could have wrecked someone else's spiritual life had he/she not been opened to it.

It is an oddly efficient universe, isn�t it, Danny. Certain events can malform some and transform others. But even malformations may, in fact, turn out to be transformations when viewed on a longer time scale. Something that happened to us ten years ago can come back and become a strength. One wonders if this new-found strength can balance the nine years of misery and corruption, but we do seem to be in the process here in existence of polishing the jewels. So if that means an acid bath and a heavy buffing, that�s what gets done.

I have nothing to say about those who receive such a heavy buffeting that it seems they hardly stand a chance. And it does seem that this happens. Some people just never seemingly get the chance to come up for air. Crap happens to them faster than they can scoop it off. And I don�t know how to account for that.

And I have no wish to diminish that hard state of affairs that some find themselves in. But it does seem that for most of us it�s all a matter of will, or orientation, as far as whether something deforms us or transforms us. We can cooperate or resist. But I don�t think it�s ever that clear-cut or simple. People normally desire to do the right thing and to be healed and strengthened by events. But due to the quirky human psychology that we carry around with us, we can very easily gain or mold certain ideas, paradigms, or perspectives into our outlook of life that then serve to interrupt this transformational process rather than facilitate it�or at least it zaps it of most of its power. We can become confused about what is helping and what is hurting. We resist that which we should let wash over us and immerse ourselves in things we should resist. Our radar detectors get miscalibrated or jammed altogether.

And isn�t that why we�re all here discussing this stuff, whether dreams or something else? Life is like AC current electrical outlets spread all around and, for a variety of reasons, many of us are walking around with attachments suited only for DC. The world of love requires a Phillips-head screwdriver to tighten it down and make adjustments, but many of us have nothing but a flat-head screwdriver. That�s not to say that we all need to think the same thoughts and believe the same things. But it is incumbent on us to find out where we might have cut a few corners psychologically, and usually unintentionally. We all have some notions in our heads that are not reasonable and are not a good match for reality.

Great comments, Danny.

Dear Bright and Beautiful Bad Boy Brad,

I just had the most refreshing dip in that delightful, dancing stream you started on Cultivating Love. And at the risk of mixing mousy, merry metaphors, it was like a bright light for me too. I am drenched in grace, dripping wet in the light of love that was cultivated there.

I feel energized, renewed, softer, kinder and cleaner. And I can see the beauty, grace, faith and hope in all of us, so much more clearly than I did before. I can see lofty and even heavenly possiblities for Shalom Place, delicately interlaced with a good sense of occassional creatively crafted, bawdy humor.

For instance, I can see much more cleary now that there are some truly gifted and inspiring writers here at Shalom Place. Everyone gave you exactly what you asked for and so it grew. It was as though your seeking to know how to cultivate love, and inviting others to join you in that quest, is what cultivated it.
Jesus kept it simple didn't he?
"Seek and ye shall find"
"Ask and it shall be given to you".

Now you might be wondering why Virya is posting her noticings on Cultivating Love on this thread, rather then the Cultivating Love thread. Well, the answer to that, as all answers are, is right here in the present moment. Because the present moment is always a perfect mirror to how we play at life.

This moment is a perfect reflection of how I both cultivate love and hide from it. I llke to cultivate love in conspicuous ways and suprising places. (and I've noticed that you and others here seem to do that too Brad ) Perhaps it's because in our collective consciousness, there is a growing awareness that many of us, most of the time, take love for granted. So being conspicuos and suprising with it, is my own personal version of spiritual warfare. The opposite of terrorism. And whose to say angels and saints aren't kinky in their own kind of way.

It's just too easy to forget that love does indeed have to be cultivated. In catching people by suprise, it sort of throws them off balance, making them more present, more vulnerable and therefore more able to receive, or to at least notice it.
Jesus kept it simple:
"It's in givng that we receive."
"It's in receiving that we are born to eternal life"

And because it's so easy to have so much going on, with all our agendas you know, we all too often don't allow ourselves to recieve the love that is always there, right there in front us, inside us even.
It's just like Jesus said,
"The kingdom of heaven is within you"

And having an agenda, having too much going on, is just one of ways I hide from love, in the past. I like to practice making every moment my altar. I here by sacrifice and transform my pain into a new life. So be it, in Jesus name. Amen and Awomen.

I also hide from love by trying not to bring attention to myself, or my needs and wants thinking that is some sort of virtue, in the past. But I hereby sacrifice and transform that pain too. By God, I want to be seen, and heard and known and yes ....remembered....in and through the light and grace of love; all of me, every part of me wants to be touched the light and grace of love. Because a lot of me was not seen or heard through the eyes and ears of love for too long. So since that is most likely true for just about everyone on the planet, I figure I should do my best to to make sure people can receive what I most need and want for myself. I know I always appreciate it when other people help me notice when I'm not receiving.
That Jesus was one smart dude, wasn't he?
"Do unto others, as you would have them
do unto you"

Well anyway...that's my reflection on cultivating love, and it's the fruit of all of your seed(s). Maybe I'll move it over to that thread too eh?

About THIS thread Brad:
Feeling so good inside after having so much Love cultivated in me by waters of that stream, my noticing capacity for insight was laser sharp while reading this thread. You gave me another insight in to my dream, in your post to Danny..Are you aware you did that?

"Life is like an AC current, electrical outlets spread all around and, for a variety of reasons, many of us are walking around with attachments suited only for DC. "

I think pondering what I was "attached to" gives me yet another new insight into this dream. Thanks so much..great post above also Brad. You really are an exceptionally good and very thought provoking writer, and focussing on inspirational ideas, really seems to bring it out of you all the more. But then our shadows knows a thing or two also, don't they?
Jesus kept it simple:
"Cast your nets down into the sea"

Thanks Danny for your dream. We are all so divinely connected to one another.

Glorious.

Danny,

I put in a request to HP (Higher Power) that I might remember a dream if need be, and I did. I was in a banquet where I was charged with serving many guests
who were due to arrive soon. There were no cooks, no bartenders, no servers,no busboys, no maitre d', hostesses or managers, only poor little old me. Being in-over-my-head is a common theme and thread in my dreams since childhood, so I'm quite accustomed to that. What was different this time was the absence of fear. I knew it was an impossible situation, but had faith that it would all work out somehow.

On the whole, a very pleasant dream, and thank you
for reminding me about dreams, so that I might listen and attend...

beggers_banquet.com

I was in a banquet where I was charged with serving many guests who were due to arrive soon. There were no cooks, no bartenders, no servers,no busboys, no maitre d', hostesses or managers, only poor little old me. Being in-over-my-head is a common theme and thread in my dreams since childhood

Yeah. I�d have to agree that the �over my head� interpretation at first glance. But I think there�s a stronger sense of other people dropping the ball, not doing their duties. That�s why you�re left with so much to do on your own. You can sort of make a critical judgment of being �in over your head�, and maybe there�s a little truth in that, but it might not be entirely apt or necessary.

There�s another strong analogy or suggestion to that dream, I think. It has to do with one needing to put up one�s defenses, to be on guard, in time for the �many guests who were due to arrive soon.� No help is there. Nothing to hide behind. It's just you.

What was different this time was the absence of fear.

And thus we come to a gentle man who is becominge less and less afraid of being himself. He doesn't necessarily need all those waiters and bus boys. It�s as if he were saying �Let the damn guests come all at once with no one else to help me. Hell, let them arrive early, unannounced and uninvited if they like. I�m not afraid.�

Or at least we�re not as afraid. Ever see the Blue Brothers? Tomorrow night Jake and Elwood Blues could be sitting at your table. And you may then not only know no fear but be able to laugh.

Nice dream, MM.

"How much for the women? Your wife, your daughter, we wish to buy them." -Jake

Yeah, those guys have a way of finding their way into fine dining establishments. I'd like to give you a dinner with Rush, but you'll have to settle for this right now, your Christmas, and I don't mean X-mas (Denver enjoys a manger scene at the courthouse for the first time in 31 years, all on account of some atheist, but I digress...) gift.

http://www.cigaraficionado.com...le/0,2540,18,00.html

As I enjoy a Honduran Papayo I wish were an Ashton, blowing smoke rings in a West by NorthWesterly direction, I'm reveling in the new
awareness and wishing you a very Merry Christmas.

to_sleep_perchance_to_dream.com

Since we�re working on dreams here, years ago while in seminary, I was praying up in my prayer room sitting on the floor upon a pillow. After my normal settling and centering I slipped into a vast meadow. The lush grass surrounded a large, lone oak tree. And there at the base of the tree trunk I sat as a five or six year old boy. I was sitting there looking out at the beauty of the prairie and mindlessly breaking small sticks into little uniform pieces and dropping them to the ground between my knees. As I was working on my pile of sticks, a figure approached in front of me and I saw a hand reach down into my field of vision. I looked up and couldn�t make out the features of the person but I was assured somehow that I could trust my guide.

With the help of the hand I arose and was invited to walk a few hundred feet over to a precipice. I looked down at the ground and noticed that right there at my feet the prairie grass stopped and then there was nothing. Utterly nothing. It was a darkness without anything else. It began right where the grasses left off. I was scared at first and then my guide�s hand touched my shoulder bringing some assurance. Then the hand swooped from my shoulder and motioned out toward the darkness as if I was invited to fall.

I remember telling myself I would not survive this. But what was I to do. My trusted escort, who by this time I understood to be Christ, was bidding me to fall off into the darkness where I would be lost...or so I thought. After some consideration, I accepted my �fate�(read God�s will) and I leaned forward toward the darkness and fell off ready to scream as I fell headlong into nothingness. Fear gripped me as I a passed by the edge of the cliff. And then... I began to struggle. I was fretting and rolling and twisting as if in a fight for my very life. And then between rolls I suddenly realized that I wasn�t falling. All my effort and tumbling was unconnected to my actual contact with the utter darkness. Gravity had paused. At that point I relaxed a bit. I stooped rolling around. And then I woke up to realize I was back in my prayer room only slumped over of the floor. But I wasn�t breathing. I was then aware of the dream from which I�d come but now, back in my prayer closet I realized I was not breathing. I remember telling myself �O great, you make it back from the dream only to die here in your prayer closet!� And the second I began to cry out �God� my lungs filled with air as if my lips were attached to an air hose and with a gasp my lungs filled and I sat upright. There was snot all over my face, my nose was dripping and eyes full of tears. I hadn�t even brought a handkerchief or tissue. So my sleeve would have to serve.

I guess I sat there for maybe another thirty minutes trying to reason out what seemed most unreasonable and then I thanked God for seeing me through it. But after this it was several weeks before I went back to prayers. I also became aware that it was because of God I had been sent there in the first place. I wasn�t sure, but I felt sort of deceived by God. I hadn�t signed up to this! I had always thought prayer pretty innocuous but this blew me away. I guess before this I didn�t realize what or Who I was messing with.

Danny,

I'm encouraged that you feel safe enough to share these things and be vulnerable in this way. You may have a soothing and calming effect around here.

The experience of God in dreams is gentle and subtle, yet powerful. I might have to search in books of mystic poetry, and hopefully find the courage to express my own. Thank You. -mm

What a truly extraordinary dream/experience/vision/or whatever it was, Danny. You have, I think, put into images something that, very roughly, I think I was thinking about today. It's sort of the idea of knowing our lives only as we routinely have come to know them. As we've always known them. As we figure we can only ever know them. I mean, apples don't fall up and zebras don't have polka-dots. The world works a certain way, always seem to have, and there seems to be no good reason to suspect that it won't go on doing exactly the same thing. There's seems no apparent reason to think that we're missing anything major.

And then something begins to tug on us. At some point that tug gets underneath our skin and we start to seriously question the very nature of reality. But only fools, psychos, the superstitious, or the criminally insane would ever do that, right? But we find ourselves further drawn into something. It's a place that doesn't have the same signposts. It doesn't seem to offer the same support. That image of that dark drop-off I thought was extraordinary. I think it shows this in a nutshell, like no words could ever do.

I do believe, Danny, you had a near-death experience in the context of what we commonly think of as gaining "new life". But moving from the one we're in to the new one is still sort of a death experience. And goodness, how your dream, how your breath stopping brought this to mind for me.

I hadn�t signed up to this!

I had a talk with my older brother not too long ago. He's nearing his Masters in Divinity�or working on a doctorate. I forget. But he's not a total nim when it comes to this stuff. That's what I'm trying to say. And he's also a part time pastor so he's done some sermons and has been in touch with the typical protestant congregation. [The rest is a rough paraphrase with my own commentary to give the flavor of what he told me.] And he notices something and it is that, although people are quite honest and sincere about their faith, most are comfortable going only so far and no more. They didn't necessarily sign up to actually, say, follow Jesus and to give all they have to the poor. Well, perhaps that's too unkind and too extreme of an example. But work your way back up the list of what people will sacrifice to really follow in the footsteps of Jesus, to really become one of his disciples, and you'll probably back all the way up to the commitment to go to church nearly every Sunday. And I don't even do that, just for the purposes of full disclosure. So I ain't throwin' any stones in this glass house. But I do think that there's a real threshold between sort of acting religious (and I do think that people correctly are sort of trying to act their way to a new way of thinking and being and that this is good) and being religious which, as you found, is damn near a near-death experience and a leap off of a cliff! I haven't quite puked yet but I suspect that could be coming in a day, a month, a year or even a decade from now. I'm in no hurry. I don't particularly like trauma.

quote:

The gross ugliness and utter darkness of the dream didn�t register inside me until I did awake�

But the word �deep� in those words to Peter seemed to be the issue somehow�

I do remember the darkness at it�s deepest. And I see my own sin as it goes back to this same reservoir of the deepest evil. I can say I don�t really fear it now. Somehow there is a confidence that God�s love goes even deeper for us all than hell itself whatever that may be�

I have experienced the light of God and I can say, in God there is no darkness at all!

I'm not sure why, but I wanted to take another look at your opening post, Danny. "Deep" and "darkness" stood out as the major concepts. What I think is entirely possible is that evil is being confused with darkness. And if that happens then I think it's going to make it rather difficult for us to get direction from our dreams and experiences.

Hell is probably, actually, simply non-existence. It's what we fear most once we've been given the gift of existence, I think. But we do exist. We exist and have dreams and mystical experiences. And if this world, as they say, is held in the mind of god; if every particle is kept in existence actively and only because of His will, then you have a situation where we can perhaps glimpse that support at times: I mean this was a light like no other I had ever been in. I remember a glory so deep and pervading that I was to see nothing. There was no contrast left in my mind�s eye. All that existed was light and I was lost there. I had a sensation of being lifted from my bed as if by some unseen rope at my chest. And there I was suspended in light until I was lost there.

And if we can get glimpses of that support, it may also be possible to imaging not getting that support. That would be darkness. (In fact that this very darkness was an expression of something more universal in creation.) That would be scary. That might surely (prematurely and inaccurately, in my opinion) have us feeling thoughts of our own sense of evil about us. And yet, whatever you want to call it � rebellion of the human race, Original Sin, or whatever � we can clearly be more cooperative, or less cooperative, with a Higher Purpose. And in such intense moments I think we surely glimpse our "sin" (and real sins). And I think what we see often perceive as sin is seeing our lives in a large context. We see all the little things that we are doing now that perhaps now seem like sidelines, sidetracks, sideshows�things taking us off a Higher track that is there for us if we can wake up to it. But I think we are allowed to wander and journey. That is life. That pretty much describes our earthly existence. It is not odd to wander. It would be odd if we did not. To try for perfection, to expect perfection from ourselves is to think that god isn't forgiving and creative, that we'll fall into non-existence hell if we don't purge every last bad quality that we perceive that we possess and stick to some manically straight-and-narrow path. This would be an odd thing in a world that allows for such freedom and creativity.

I think you are so correct when you said: I'm thinking of my original dream posted earlier now and considering how that same dream could have wrecked someone else's spiritual life had he/she not been opened to it. I would hope that you, and others, would take a positive message from such dreams and experiences. I like what you said when you said: I have experienced the light of God and I can say, in God there is no darkness at all! I think you're basically affirming that existence is good. Nothing to worry about. All shall be well. And all manner of things shall be well. And you clearly did see deep, Danny�deep enough to imagine or be given a sense of out gift of existence by catching the scariest darn thing a human might experience and that is a glimpse of the darkness, of non-existence. And surely we feel like we ought to very quickly mind all our P's and Q's so that we stay in God's good graces. And yet, I think a deep look at your dream shows that god is good. God is loving. And, as you said, And I see my own sin as it goes back to this same reservoir of the deepest evil. I can say I don�t really fear it now. Somehow there is a confidence that God�s love goes even deeper for us all than hell itself whatever that may be.

Anyway, I'm sure I did that for my benefit, not yours, Danny. But perhaps our interests intersect. I hope so.