Wondering if any of you have met anyone offering deeksha? Some interesting stuff below and more to come about the brain scans of those who recieve it...if anyone shows interest.

The letter below is from William, a very sweet, light filled guy from my yoga class and dance community... I've received deeksha from him now 4 or 5 times. My experiences have not been anything close to the intensity or magnitude of William's, but all of us (up to about 6o people each time now) do experience various indications of a deepening of spirit..sometime in the way of purification...in other words...stuff from the past gets brought up to look at again, or illness of some sort, but there is a "witnessing" effect to it..We are not as emersed in it. ...People email in their experiences after each time of recieving (if they want to) and he sends it out to everyone.
William says there is a Divine Intellegence inherent in the receiving of Deeksha. We never get more then we can handle at one time..That makes a lot of sense to me and is consistent with my learning from other spiritual teachers.

This kind of 'stuff'is part of what I think is behind creating any paradigm shifts....at least that is what happens on some level) to those that recieve it. And as we know, what affects one, affects us all on some level, though it may not always be seen.

If any of you are interested in reading what others have to say about it, I'll be happy to post them...they come out about once a week. One of them had pictures of these golden orbs of light surrounding the masters...and there is also a picture of holy ash pouring out of their feet.
There is also a link below about how to train to do it..

Love and Joy, Pauline


Hi,

I have filled out the introduction to the Book of Awareness so I am sending you the additional introductory material that is not in your copy:

Some may find it helpful to know my background. Therefore, I will summarize some of the relevant material. I started formally meditating in 1974 with T.M. After completing my University studies at Vanderbilt and Florida State with a double major in psychology and Studio Art, I went to seminary full time for 3 1/2 years and graduated with a Masters of Theology from Harding Graduate School of Religion (Church of Christ) in 1982. Later, I served as a board President in a Unity Church.

I started my career as a psychotherapist in a psychiatric, drug, and alcohol unit. Later, having studied hypnosis since being a teenager, I started giving seminars using hypnosis for change. I worked with 20,000 or so people in groups and individually. I am now a Licensed Professional Counselor and Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in private practice. I only accept new clients who are interested in enlightenment.

In 1997 I started having profound spiritual experiences. After speaking at the Whole Life Expo in 1997, I woke up with little sleep and started channeling the Arch Angel Michael.�among other things, he said that Christ said to say hi. I asked what that was about and he said, "You were his friend before he was famous." A couple months later Jesus appeared to me and I directly experienced Oneness with Him.

I had started working with Eastern teachers in 1997 and since then have sat with over 30 enlightened masters and quite a number of Avatars. Ammachi, the hugging saint...avatar of love, guided me to Amma and Bhagavan where I received my first deeksha in Austin on 8/15/2004 from Raniji, Uttama, and Richard. It was so profound that I was on a plane 2 weeks later going to the 21 day program in India. I gave my first public deeksha program here in Austin on 11/15/04. Many of you were there that night. I completed the 10 day "deepening" program in February of 2005. During that program, Christ, Krishna, Kalki, and Ramana appeared to me. I began to melt into them with my primary quality becoming that of Christ. The biological effects of this "melting" is summarized in the following study by the German particle physicist, Christian Optiz:

Diksha and Brain Scans

During a recent stay at the Oneness University, I had the opportunity to measure the brains of several people at different stages of the diksha process, using a very sensitive electromagnetic sensor. At first, I examined several participants of the 10day deepening course who had already gone through the 21day course several months earlier. All of them showed the brain patterns of enlightenment: A greatly decreased level of activity in the parietal lobes and enhanced activity in the frontal lobes, with a dominance of the left frontal lobe. This is particularly important, because the difference between genuine spirtual awakening and pathological mystical experiences that make a person more neurotic lies in the dominance of the frontal lobes: Overactivity on the right side is problematic, whereas a healthy integration of spiritual awakening into human life always comes with left frontal lobe dominance. These findings where also confirmed by Ralf Franziskowski, a medical doctor specialized in psychosomatic medicine, who scanned people with an AMSAT diagnostic device. We purposefully used two very different technologies to cross-check our findings.

One very interesting aspect of these findings was that the brain hardware of these people was more reflective of permanent enlightenment than their current conscious experience. It seems that diksha first installs the neurobiological hardware of enlightenment and the software in form of the experience slowly catches up. This makes a lot of sense to me. So often people have access to great awakenings, but do not have the prepared brain to sustain and integrate such awakenings. All the problems of "ungrounded" spiritual awakening have to do with this discrepancy. If the order is reversed, it dramatically increases the chances of enlightenment being complete and easy to integrate into human life. (More can be found in the Book of Awakening - entry 11/27/05).

Although this study does not address those that have received individual deeksha outside of the programs in India, my observation is that you are experiencing a profound neurological rewiring as well. Both your direct individual experience as well as a quick reading of the book of Awakening makes this obvious to yourself as well as the casual observer.

When I asked Amma to strengthen my deekshas and deepen my enlightenment, she said she would help me if I did seva (selfless service) by giving lots of deeksha. I believe that I am the only American other than Raniji to have completed the 10 day "deepening program" and to have given around 1,000 individual deekshas or more. This is the general criterion for being able to give more powerful deekshas, however other factors come into play such as natural ability and Grace. I have found that the power of Grace coming through me has become stronger as I have become deeper and clearer. Aside from the Grace given in the programs in India, I attribute much of that to giving so much deeksha. I must say, though, that anyone having been through the 21 day program can bring you to enlightenment through deeksha. It can be a process but it is not too hard these days.

The Divine intent moving through me is that World enlightenment is assured by 2012. While your individual enlightenment seems crucial, our focus naturally moves outward to those around us as become enlightened. This is so because as all psychological boundaries melt, we realize there is only One. With no psychological boundaries how can I stop at me? There is no me! Me melts into you melting into All. Really it is more like me melts straight into All. There's no you either! Later, we will talk about the paradox of me, you, and, yet, only All.

The avatars of enlightenment, Amma and Bhagavan have created deeksha to bring a minimum of 64,000 beings around the world into a deep understanding of who they are. The Divine energy that we emanate will throw the rest into a progressive spontaneous enlightenment that will be close to completed around the world by 2024 or so. Acharya Sri Anandagiriji of Oneness University explains the relevance of enlightenment to world functioning:


"The mission of Bhagavan and the Foundation for World Awakening is to bring Enlightenment to all mankind. And that is really the focus. It is not just an interest of spiritual seekers or those who are aspiring for higher states, or aspiring to know God, or aspiring to become divine. What I mean to say is it is not to meet the needs of a few mere spiritual seekers. But I think today it's the need of the world, the need of this planet, if you have to really keep this planet alive with its great energies, life-giving energies.

If all the wars externally, the problems in relationships, the conflict that we experience within � and there are so many other issues that we�re concerned with today, issues like crime, theft, poverty, racial discrimination, religious intolerance, division in class on the base of greed, on the base of nationality � if really all these problems should come to an end, I don't think we have any more solutions, solutions in the sense of changing our approach to life, changing the system of governance. I don't think, there is anything fundamentally wrong with the system itself, be it a religious system or a political system, or a cultural system. Every system has its own advantages and its own disadvantages, and we have already made too many changes in the systems and that has not really helped to solve or resolve these conflicts in wars, problems like crime and being very cruel to this planet.


More than attempting to change the systems, I think, the people who are governing these systems, people who are involved in managing the systems: the political system, the religious system, the cultural system, and the social system; a deep and fundamental transformation has to occur within these people. And this transformation is not something to be induced by a new culture or a new religion. Such a reformation would not last really long, a reformation induced by some new ideology. A deep changes has to come in the way we perceive things. Our perceptions have to drastically change. And that can happen only through a personal profound mystical experience, or a personal transcendental experience or an experience of the Divine, an experience of God, an experience of a complete connectedness with everything: with the people, with the plants, with the trees, with the animals, with this Earth, with this Universe, where we feel a part of everything and we also know everything is a part of us, where we know that we are so dependent on each other. Only such an experience can bring about that change, the change in one's perception. And as I already mentioned, such a change cannot be induced, it has to happen through an experience and a realization."

If any of this resonates with you, perhaps that is why you have been guided to deeksha.

William

Below is the link about how one can learn to give deeksha...requires a trip to India though. They want to get something like 64,000 people trained to give it...because the planet so desperately needs it.

www.onenessuniversity.org &
www.trueawakening.org

Virya (Pauline)

Thank you for your life! We are indeed fortunate to have you here. Thank you for sharing your experience, strength and hope.

Regarding 2012 and 2024, and forgive me for asking,
how and why would this enormous leap in consciousness occur, when previous progress has evolved slowly over millennia. How could this many meet the requirements of enlightenement is such a short time?

I'm into a book now about Theresa of Avila and Carmelite spirituality; I Want to See God, A Practical Synthesis of Carmelite Spirituality by
P. Marie-Eugene, O.C.D.

"As the essence of natural things corresponds to our natural intelligence; and to the angelic intellect, its spiritual essence corresponds, so to the intellectuality of grace, a participation in God, there corresponds directly the divine essence, hence Pure Act, hence the divine Being, offering Himself to be grasped intellectually by it, such as He is in Himself." (John of St. Thomas , quoted by P. Gardeil in Structure de l'ame et l'experience mystique,Vol I, Part II,conclusion).

I just love that kind of talk! -mm <*)))))><

Beats me MM....Only Great Mystery knows the answer to that ....
"to every season, turn, turn, turn"

We are living in some very interesting times though, according to various spiritual traditions that have influenced me. I'm a cross pollinator though.

The Veda's refer to this time as Kali Yuga...the Dark Age of Materialism....which lasts for thousands of years, and I think we're in the middle to end of it, but don't quote me.. If I remember correctly though, there is a pocket of time with in it, which is suppossed to sort of usher in the Age of Englightenment...whatever that means to you...It means something to me, but admittedly it's based on my own personal experience, most of which I didn't seek except in a yearning sort of way, and from that was led to ..and I've learned to trust my experience, which unfortunatley much of my Catholic upbringing caused me to not trust for a long time.

There's also the Mayan calendar....But you are no doubt familiar with that?

Then my experiences with Grandfather Macki, the Maori Spiritual Elder..(see crop circle thread)

Also, astrologically speaking, according to both Jyotysh and Western, we are living in a time that allows for learning at a much higher vibration..a higher frequency so to speak..(the Rhudyars link you cited in the Kundilini thread may touch upon this ) ..And it's only going to get higher and higher. Everything is vibration...everything, every thought, every sound, every thing at it's most basic level. And itis my experience and belief that we create our reality with our thoughts..which is why we need to learn to silence the mind....and why so many are teaching that..We always get what we need, we just don't always know what we need, because many of our inhereted concepts can create a pre-judice to what is showing up to assist us...Just like that joke about God sending helicopters, boats etc to the guy in the flood on the rooftop.

Please keep in mind though MM, and others, that astrology for me is a language that I feel was given to me as a way of naming and understanding the world, which I was way too sensitive to for my own good as a youngster. I was also a bit of a doubting Thomas by nature...Faith in and of itself didn't work for me very well, given the huge amount of hypocrisy and violence in my home life. Hard to believe in an all loving God amidst such contradictions. Faith works for me now though... ...I just had to first understand the principles behind it and needed to feel or have a sense of the divine order in things for myself, rather then just blindly trusting what was taught me, as those teacing me certainly were not a very strong living example of what they taught. So astrology has helped me trememdously this way..But we each have our own way to finding what we need. I no longer feel the need to convince people of astrology's efficacy. I just direct them to sources that might seed thei own understanding when they ask. If it's right for them, they will know it.

But in the end, thinking there may be some truth to the 2012 or 2024 stuff...it almost comes down to common sense for me. At the rate humankind is going, we're well on our way to destroying ourselves...Indeed many today still live their lives in places and conditions that would have me wishing I was dead. Many don't even have clean water to drink and it's scarce at that...and in affluent cultures like our own Water has become a commodity, and in time in places, may compete with the price of gas. What kind of ignorance would allow for clean WATER the source of life, to have price tag that some can't even afford? That to me is a blasphemy, a mortal sin, a sign of the times, a definite warning of darker times to come...unless we change..from the inside out.

My experience of many of the great spiritual teachers on the planet today is that they are here to help re-awaken the Spirit within which will spontaneously change the outer. My current crack pot theory is that they are not so much sent to us, but rather come to us "in response to" the collective highest prayers and need of all humanity...even the unspoken prayers, even the prayers of our so called 'enemies'.... as Life which we all share in common, will always seek homeostasis...no matter what the cost, or what has to be destroyed in the process. Old paradigms are dying and will continue to ..unless we change ourselves and hence our perceptions....as William suggests.

Now, this next idea may sound blasphemous to some...I have no idea if it is or not, and don't really care whether it is or not, as there is much I consider blasphemous about what the suppossed authorities do and say who tell us what is or is not blasphemous. I am finding myself wondering if even Jesus came in response to the needs of the time..even though "our story " about his coming, which was written by the consciousness of the time, (all men by the way...and I keep coming across information which makes it more and more clear, that men and women think and recall experience very differently and interpret thier experiences very differently, including original texts and hierglyphics. which naturally are also translated very differently. But the present story is of course that Jesus as God's only Son, was "sent" by our All Loving, All Knowing , sort of All -State like Father God to save the world from our sins. I don''t question that he succeeded in that, I question our story about how it came to pass... I also wonder a lot about Mary. Whether one believes in the Virgin birth as metaphor or as real, the story I wonder about, but that I've never heard, is the one where She has a really, really strong, pure love and DESIRE to know God, just like Amma and many of the Saints did, but we don't seem to ponder about Her much that way at all.

Instead we're told she was "over powered" and then willfully submitted to the Holy Spirit's gift to Her. Seems like that story would be a reflection of the consciousness of the times, given the role of women back then. I think maybe She yearned for God more then any other woman on the planet did, and that's why She conceived Him,if indeed it was a Virgin birth, as it could be metaphor and a very potent one at that.

Unfortunately for Jesus, He came at a time where people believed in sacrificing their best lambs to God...and so He willingly became that for them, and us..and did so freely and willfully. He was the one and only consciousness at the time that was "able to respond" fully to the needs and 'hopes' of the time, and yes even for all time, and for whatever reason He chose to incarnate into the Jewish culture.
He spoke in a language and with stories respectful of the laws of that culture..to a degree...so that he could reach the consciousness of as many people as possible. Had he not, He wouldn't have been understood and very likely would've been put to death that much sooner. That's what people do, in one way or another when someone is just too different for them to handle. Their fear comes to surface. out . Their sense of realityis threatened.

As for what's happening now, it starting to all make sense to me.. that the need for THIS time... NOW would come in the form of a Universal Mother energy. Just as a mothers love a family's love for the mother, has a way of silencing the fighting amongst her children, so as to unify them, (at least in my household) so too would a Universal Divine Mother energy best unite the fighting between cultures and nations. To my knowledge, it seems most cultures have some form of the Divine Mother and rarely are dogmas created from Her inspiration. For me, the many meditation techniques, centering prayer, the many Hindu saints (an increasing number of whom are women) ..and all of whch very much honor the Divine Feminine, and ultimatley are increasing our understanding of life at more subltle layers..( unified field theory) and all of which emphasis the awakening of Shakti, along with the re-emergence of ancient indigenous wisdom, the people most connected with Mother Earth, the Mother of Life for us all... all of this.... is like writing on the wall to me....that there is a balancing of energy occuring on the planet. The warfare, political and religious splits, and even the rise of new diseases is but an indication of resistance to that change. ...much like a rash appears on the body as indication of an inner imbalance or allergy to something. As more and more is revealed to us, about the true nature of our many paradigms...what is really running them, the more "BAD NEWS we will most likely see..but ultimatley I see it as a huge ,intense purification process. Spirit is behind it all. And the best amunition against the consequences of it, to me... is to go with the flow...embrace as much of what is pouring in on the planet as we can, while we can. In other words, open up and try " to be the change we want to see"
Silencing the mind and becoming an empty vessel, allowing ourselves to be filled with Divine Love and Light, and serving the less fortunate, this is what I think is being asked of us collectively on the planet and what spiritual teachers are gifting us with ....and at a much higher intenstity then ever before....If enough of us succeed in doing this, the question to me is ....why wouldn't we be able to create a much more enlightened society by 2024?

Peace, love and joy, Pauline

Virya (Pauline),

It is highly unusual to meet someone who shares the goal of enlightenment. Such individuals are rare and
as beautiful as precious stones. The founder of the Hare Krishna movement believed that this age was too
far gone and corrupt for meditation, and that chanting was the best path toward some kind of union
or bliss.

A kirtan at the temple calibrates at 400, or the beginning of rationality on David Hawkins scale.
That's the same level as Ayn Rand and the 700 club, so it's very nice but not enough to appeal to one seeking enlightenment, the highest state of
"ordinary" human consciousness which begins at 600
according to Hawkins:

Energy Level 600 Peace

"This energy field is associated with the state designated by such terms as illumination, enlightenment, self realization, and God consciousness. Distinction between subject and object disappears, and there is no specific focus point of perception. Some individuals at this level remove themselves from the world as the state of bliss precludes ordinary activity."

Saint Theresa of Avila makes this observation:

"Everyone, however, who wishes to enter the second mansions, will be advised, as far as life permits,
to try to put aside all unnecesary affairs and business. For those who hope to reach the principal Mansion, this is so important that unless they begin in this way I do not believe they will ever be able to get there. Nor, indeed, even though it has entered the castle, is the soul free from great peril in the Mansion which it actually inhabits."

I Mansions ii; Peers 211

This is the point I seem to be arriving at, so the path is frought with much danger, and I'll have to keep what's left of my wits about me.

caritas, mm <*)))))><

So M. Michael,

Very much enjoying this exchange..

You very likely may have already asked yourself similar questions to the ones I have for you... as you seem well versed in the areas of healing. But sometime two heads are better the one..you know?

My intuition has me curious about two things, which may assist you with your healing if you choose to ponder them...and me with possible insight. But as the question may be too personal, you needn't feel you have to answer them at Shalom Place or with me. I'm just following and sharing my intuition here, which could be way off track. My intention is that they might lead to some possible assistance with your healing.

1. What exactly do you find 'dangerous' in this place or state your soul is in?

2. Did you 'consciously' remove yourself from the world, or were you 'unconsciously' removed from the world, via your CFIDS?

3. Do you see a connection or relationship between the answers to 2 and 3?

I ask because these sorts of questions helped my friend with CFIDS gain some insight into her own illness, and she is now more fully able to embrace her souls place in the world, but for a long time she resisted. It sounds like you are embracing your place too.

She was always an artistic soul, but as the daughter of a strict, overbearing Bible historioan /Baptist minister, her "false self" was not able to live up to his high expectations of her, despite her graduating with honors, Masters in Poli Sci/Government. I don't think our culture or the Church today, properly educates or offers enough possibilities in the way of guiding souls, expecially artistice souls, to proper safe haven as they enter these states. (Not that I expect them to, but I think a more enlightened society would, and like to nurture such images as I think it helps create our future) I think the reason Theresa felt there were "dangers" ...especially in her lifetime, when the general consciousness of the masses was much denser was because there was no real safe haven.

Just going from a small TM residence course back into the world, the contrast vibrationally sometimes felt and looked like night and day for me....that is how radically it affected my perception. But after meditating with 7000, the energy was much was more stablilized. Maharishi has always taught that if the square root of 1% of the population were practicing group meditaion daily together..that we could create World Peace. .Maybe that is why Bhagavan and Amma want 64,000 to come learn Deeksha?

Now the differences betoween meditation and non-menditation are sometimes barely discernable. During Thereas time, there was much emphasis in the mass consciousness on "polarities" of good/evil. My experience with regular group meditation has changed my perception about polariies. Namely, that they come from our perceptions.

Gratefully, there are many wonderful safe places and communties growing around the world, which also provide a ways for being of service at the some time, without draining the individual with "making a living". I believe many addicts in society are such souls...as I have known and loved one of them, who is now thriving in such safe haven community in Washington state..one very suitable to his nature. I also think my oldest brother was such a soul, on the deepest level, but the wounding of his soul was so deep, he couldn't turn it around and slowly killed himself via addictions. All the while making fun of me in his ignorane, for my TM practice. What's ironic is that without it, I'd msot likey still be having my own addictions

If it was an unconscious removal from the world in your case, and there a connection to that and what you percieve as dangerous, I just thought it may give you some clues as to the cause of deeper layers of your illness. I know coming to understand these things is what has helped both my friends..just so you know I'm not entirely green in this area.

As for me,per your entries above, I actually used to be very skeptical about Enlightenment with a big "E' the whole time I was associated with TM, so I never bought into the whole 'commercial package of it, but Maharishi had his reasons for that, and who was I to criticize his ways and means. His gift to the world and served millions world wide much more than most people are presently able or willing to see. I have always loved the practice and the knowledge. I always thought of enlghtment with a little "e'.... as an ever increasing state of awareness and bliss.

Since meeting Amma though, I seem to be shifting on that.. . Amma says that's why we get a human body, to get enlightened,,, and that the safest path for most people, is through sincere devotion to our Diety and service, as long as we have a proper understanding of the principles behind it.

Paths of the intellect, may be right for some, but lend themselves to dillusion much more easily, and much greater need for a Sat Guru. As Amma has walked Her talk since early childhood, (and Christ's talk too) more then any person on the planet that I know of, my soul trusts Her completely. I never dreamed I'd have a Guru, I was actually resistant to the idea, but now I know that we don't choose our Guru. Rather, the soul through Grace just "knows' when the "guru" shows up...and it's not necessarily thru an individual, though in my case that has helped. Amma says "Experience is Guru, and "Mantra connects you to Guru", if it is said with vigilince and devotion" ..Mantra allows the doors of perception to open and we see and experience the Guru in all our expereinces, as you described in your entry above about Peace.

Since first seeing Amma or the 2nd time 3 years ago and every year since, I can relate to the words "the state of bliss precluding ordinary activity"...if I am understanding your meaning. I don't really jive so much with the "mansion's" metaphor, or the danger part..not yet anyway, ...but I am not a very visual person. I'm more kinesthetic and auditory.

I just got off the phone with one of the Truth Be Told prison ministry counselors. We're gearing up for another 6 month committment and I am more then a little concerned about my lack of energy for 'ordinary activity." The prisonors are a joy for me, and so far, gratefully I have been to them.. But my housework and other mundane responsiblities..like paperwork ... are suffering terribly.... Ever since seeing Amma 3 years ago, i just want to meditate, do yoga, sing,dance.interplay and write.....I do like giving massages though, and playing with the prisoners and even changing the diapers on my seniors at night. But cooking and even eatting, which I use to love now seem to bore me.... I've been wanting to down size everything but I am finding the energy it takes to do it, to be monumental. It's as though the light of Amma's Love and Grace made me realize what "renunciation' really means..It's not a decision and a sacrifice, it's a joy ! ...a relief...and just "happens" when the soul is so filled that it knows nothing wordly could ever fill or satisfy it in the same way. But "the process" of going back and removing extraneous stuff organizatonally I find very challenging, as I am very organizationally impaired..not enough shaping in my life... Amma just has a way of awakening us to the deeper inner realities of our soul..which can be both pleasant and unpleasant. I hear She honey-moons Her devotees. This last trip was a bit uncomfortable for me, lots of purification, and a bit flat for me, but worth it all the same.

Ok that's enough for some time now...Just got to do some house work !!!!

Peace, love and joy, Pauline

Virya (Pauline),

David Hawkins verifies that one Mother Theresa balances out 50 million souls below the level of integrity, so I do accept that this may be the case.
I have been put down hundreds of times over not being a "productive member of society," often by people even more shame-bound than I. It's all part of my training program as a "contemplative iconoclast."

"Our Carmelite lifestyle, therefore, with or without active ministry, (as that term is unually understood) --our lifestyle of the vows, of silence, solitude, and prayer, of community-- can be a prophetic denunciation of the commodity values of our society and prophetic annunciation of a new way of living. Kavenaugh calls it a 'personal form.' I would suggest a different word,
a word from Eckhart, 'GALASSENHEIT,' letting-be. Letting-be is a way of living according to which we no longer view things, persons, or events in terms of their usefulness but accept them in their autonomy. We no longer wish to possess or subvert things to our own projects; we wish only to restore things to themselves and persons to their own freedom. In our lives as Carmelites, we should be witnesses of 'letting-be.' To the extent that we are, we are truly countercultural, for 'letting-be' attacks the very roots of a culture hell-bent on possession, productivity and domination." --The Contemplative Iconoclast, The Countercultural Nature of Contemplation, by David W, Buggert, O. Carm., Whitefriars Hall, Washington Theological Union, Washington, D.C.


letting_be.com

Amen to all the above MM. MOther Theresa was a great soul ...one of my heroines for sure. She answered Christ's call to her as radically as I first felt it deep in my soul as a youth, but did not at all feel prepared to respond to it. Amma's Grace...and who knows..maybe deeksha.. seem to be healing and strengthing my courage in that area...baby steps you know. People like her and Amma remind us what we are capable of and to keep it simple.. A former roommate and member of my rosary group served in her mission for a year or so, and got to meet her and felt her life was very blessed by it. Another woman, drew picture of Mother Theresa in charcoal when MT passed on, and after that the womans artistic abilitiy totally blossomed with new talent...she's really good now. She felt it was a divine gift fo gratitude. from Mother T. Has MT been cannonized? If not, she should be.

My friend with CFIDS was also been shamed a lot by both friends and family,..some of them even severed their ties with her...same with my other friend for his addictions. He was actually a very high functioning alcoloholic...with Hep C..(bad combination) But in some ways, He was one of the most compasssionate, disciplined people I've ever known...just really hard on himself..
He had club feet as a baby, and had tons of surgery by the time he was five.. It really scared him and his parents didn't even stay with him. They were very wealthy but pretty abusive and heavy drinkers, and not at all religios, but he said Jesus came to him once when he was really scared about his surgery, telling him everything would be ok, It was very real to him, but even with that, for some reason, it didn't help him believe in Him. He was really connected to Nature though..and a wonderful arist.

Now that their each more clear in themselves about what their soul really wants and needs, their soul's are both much more at home now... In the end they both learned to trust their inner wisdom, realizing that even their illness was part of God's way of bringing them back home..and that they are doing a lot more for the good of all humanity with their relatively less 'active-go get em' kind of lifestyles. Sounds like you too share that inner knowing too...

So are you now actually living in a Carmelite community? I always thougt the Carmelites were all women...I don't know much about Catholic orders and such.. Can lay people live there indefinitely? Affordably? That sounds like the sort of community I was talking about...must feel supporttive. How long have you lived there ? ...if you do...What's it like?

Love and Joy, Pauline

P.S. MM,
I just re-checked these two posts..and realized that there is nothing in your post at all that would suggest you live in a Carmelite community. In fact re-reading it, I'm highly amused and wondering how I arrived at that conclusion. I think it was 'just my 'magination, running away with me" ...

Whenever that happens, it either leads to buried treasures or hidden demons, who are usually harmless but scary enough to guard the buried treasures. But once the true nature of the demon is understood, the treasure is mine for the taking . . .

So I'm noticing how so much of how we hear and receive things can become a projection of our own inner mind and concepts. This spiritual dialoguing in cyber-space is could be quite a journey!!!

Would like to become a Carmelite, third order, but I haven't even been to RCIA yet! I have a freind who is a caretaker at a Carmelite convent about 15 miles from here. I met one of the sisters, but since they are cloistered, I could only speak to her through a grill. She used to be a Seventh Day Adventist, but received the call to Carmel. She gave me one of those old Baltimore catechisms and agreed to pray for my conversion. As near as I can tell, I first began meditation on her feast day six years ago. Coincidence? My freind the caretaker at the convent says that you do not choose your saint, your saint chooses you.

http://www.eyeconart.net/history/Baroque/Ecstacy.htm

I have this in the bedroom and in the bathroom and in the hallway for the last four years or so and it is THE definitive image I have for mystical Christian experience. Although I have not had but brief samples of coming attractions regarding her
experience, I hope for such union with all my heart...

caritas, mm <*)))))><

"Your saint chooses you"
rings with Truth.
They fill us with their Grace....
and on our knees
we fall . .drenched
with tears of joy
in gratitude.
There is no choice but
to fall...

My experience anyway..to lesser and greater degrees along the way. But I have always kept the following words of wisdom from Maharishi close at hand for some reason, as discernment is something I have had to learn . .

During meditation:

"Neither anticipating nor resisting change"

"Have the experience and let it go. Non-attachement. In trying to repeat it, we miss the gift of the moment" (paraphrased)

I've found these words very helpful in life, relationships and even in sexual intimacy. I think we can learn much about the process of spiritual union from our experiences with sexual union. I do anyway, not that I've reached it, but I do get occassional tastes of it, and the tastes are beginning to linger longer.

One of my lessons in being with Amma this past time is to not be attached to my past experiences with Her, which are Divine. And She is constantly telling us, not to be attached to Her form. Rather be devoted to our spiritual practice and seva. Always be an open vessel.
She also taught me that ego can be as much about feeling a lack of confidence in ones oneself (big issue for me) as much as being full of oneself...That was a fun lesson. It's amazing how all of us end up sharing completely different stories that show how Amma is somehow working directly and personally with each of us on different levels, a manifestation of what many believe demonstrates Her omniscience adn it certainly feels that way around Her...But in my more doubting Thomas sort of mind, I seek and try to ponder the universal laws that would create this impression upon us, as I in my finite mind, cannot fathom that One's consciousness could possibly hold and address so personally, the consciousness of so many at one time. And yet this is what Amma seems to do...

So far, it seems the lessons we all get go as deep as our own probing. She never does the work for us though, just gifts us when we are working. And the lessons we get are often not at all the ones we were expecting, but always the ones we most need. She is a very recipripricating Guru, for me anyway...I love Her so..

She blows the mind away, on the gentle peaceful breeze of Her Grace, then fills us with Her Love..(but somehow She finds ways play with us first, just to get us to see what's in the way...)

Peace,Love and Joy, Virya (pauline)

Virya (pauline),

Oneness University is new to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_University

I am very interested in Ramana Maharshi this last year, as he is a major influence on Ken Wilber and David Hawkins, who I have been reading alot this past year. Ken Wilber says that Maharshi is the greatest sage India has produced, ever!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramana_Maharshi

The Hundreth Monkey Phenomenon, based on an apocryphal tale about monkeys on islands off Japan, has been calibrated by David Hawkins at 205, or slightly over the level of integrity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_Monkey

A close relationship with a spiritual teacher may have an effect on enlightenment. Catholic priests
and Charismatic/Pentacostal ministers recieve the anointing via the "laying on of hands," as mentioned on the Acts of the Apostles.

Peace, Love and Joy, mm <*))))><

Oneness Univeristiy is new to me too MM. I've just receive the deeksha and while it definitely seems to quicken things..or at least stir things up for me, I am not sold out to it ..so thankyou for this.

I must say though, that William, (the one who gives Deeksha here) , is a very sound, balanced, sincere, well-recieved fellow round these parts..and he handles my very probing questions with admirable humility, warmth, grace, neutrality and charity. Some who have known him a long time, say he has definitely a lot clearer since going to India,.cleaer.... But like I said, I'm not sold on it yet...still exploring.

I've wanted to read more then just the very few articles of Ken Wilber I've come across ever since I came across 'Up From Eden'...but I knew I would never finish that book!!! (I liked the title,very catchy...) But I most likely would have gotten bored with it..I'm just too kinestheic for a lot of reading....Embracing 'Know Thyself".. I find I learn most of what I really need, thru the initimacy I risk (or don't risk) in my dance spiritual practice and in InterPlay. Profound learning happens there and it's lots of fun, good excercise and highly creative to boot.. Also in my seva with seniour and prisoners.

All the sages say it's all inside us anyway...and I like to think that's true. But I'm sure that means we have to spend a lot of quality time inside to find it, which I do with much pleasure.

I have been to a weekend long satsang with Eli and Gangagee, followers of Shree R. Maharishi's. That's where I asked that question and was tearfully yet gratefully 'processed and purified' by the light of their compassion, in front of 100 people or so...So I am vaguely familar with Shree R. Maharishi's process..and find it very valuable.. A local follower of Eli and Gangahee ( followers of his teachings) host a weekly local cable show of their satsangs here too. Maybe in your area also. The thing that sort of bothers me about them at times....is what they themselves call "serving the bourgeosy" of largey a very priviledged small percentage of white America. Gangagee talked about it that same day actually..(Maybe she 'heard' my inner question in her silence) But Papagi affirmed it and she surrendered to it..recognizing it as judgement and ego. She serves where she serves and does it well. And both of them are in awe of Amma.

I'm familiar with 100th monkey and will openly admit to believing in it..as it has also been my observation that this is how change spreads and seems to be supported somewhat by Unified Field Theory as presented by John Haeglin, an award winning Unified Field Theorist during TM courses. But maybe I should look deeper, eh? Maybe I should start with checking Wikepedia (and other sources) on J. Haeglin and compare his credntials with John Hawkins as they are both in the same field of physics...Snniff, Snniff ..hot on the trail ...

Meanwhile, in light of your posting, my question is now this:

Why should we trust what Wikipedia, or JOhn Hawkins, John Haeglin, says about anyone or anything as the God truth, or any of the books mentioned there, anymore then our own experience with those we personally know, and therefore are more able to trust?

Wikipedia and all books, afterall, are most often written by complete stangers to us. Wouldn't either one be just as much a form of spreading urban myths as the other? The important thing for me is, does what I read resonate as Truth within me?

Too often what is taught in books and from various individiuals, does not resonate as Truth in me, and I trust my own kinesiology over a strangers..This is the only set of muscles I have at my constant disposal, and what God gave me.
An amazing local woman whose spiritual walk and talk I truly admire told me recently that "Truth once found, unfolds spontaneously upon itself" It came to me at a time that felt like a deep soul knowing and affirmation of the immense amount of synchronicity in my life since meeting Amma..which my mind wants to question...but my gut is telling me to trust..I'm going with that for awhile, some other form of wake up call manages to get my attention...but it will have to be pretty darn magical and of a high enough and more intense vibration then the frquency of the wave I'm currently riding, weeeeeee!.....
as that is what ultimatley causes us to change our minds in the first place..We think we change our minds, but in reality it's something else..a broader, more logical, more life giving, more intense and more frequent vibration hits a brain cell of a old concept and get it to vibrating at a higher rate...Voila...new concept and changed behaviour or perception.

So it all get's down to physics in the long run to me....at least that is the most logical explanation I've ever been given about the mechanics of not just spiritual experience, but all experience...and as it's consistent with my own experience..I accept it as Truth "until somthing else changes my mind" And as ALL spiritual teacher's stress non-attachment and repetion and vigilance in our spiritual practices...if makes sense. "Repetition is our friend" (InterPlay 101)

Annoiting, laying on hands..
I'm afraid that as long as there are still priest pedofiles, I don't much see how laying on of the hands,Eurcharist orany of the sacraements... in and of themselves... help to bring enlightenment. ..though I can see how having Jesus doing it would...or one from a priest or anyone who walks their talk. If it had some power in and of itself, greater then the amount of Faith we place in it..there would be no priest pedofiles. But see..I tend to trust more empiracal practices, and like scientific evidence that back them up. (if only Faith could be callibrated)
But if experience and observation tell me that something or someone delivers what is promised,then I'm all over it.... with gusto.

Virya (pauline).

As always, enjoying the conversation!

John Hagelin has done some fine work on analogue to digital conversion. In a previous incarnation I was an audiophile, sold stereo equipment and spent over a decade pouring over high-end audiophile magazines, most of which were highly technical and way over my head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagelin

Hagelin also won an Ig Noble Prize for peace in 1994 for claiming that
4000 meditators reduced the violent crime rate in Washington
D.C. by 18%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L..._Nobel_Prize_winners

Past winners include Deepak Chopra in 1998 for "physics". Deepak was a longtime freind of George Harrison, whose music David Hawkins calibrates at 540, an extremely high level, Rumi calibrates at 540. I feel a Rumi phase coming on before long. He
is an inspiring God-intoxicant, and I like him and George Harrison very much!

The Atman Project and Up From Eden combine to form
the first vulume of The Collected Works of Ken Wilber, which I almost picked up the other day, but decided to choose some Aurobindo instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Aurobindo

Peace, Joy and Love, mm <*))))><

Your quicK ! I just realzed I had the spelling on his name wrong. Icouldn't find anything on Wikipedia on him even with the right spelling..how did you do that?

I did a little searching myself on both, enough to find that there are both positive and negative articles on both John H. and David Hawkins' gets back to the need for one trusting one's own inner experience...rather then what other's say. Rishi, Devata, Chandis....The knower the known and the prociess of knowing...all affect one another. You never did say if you knew how Davids test are done...Does he muscle test on more then one person about a particualr peron, or group or does he only test himself.?

The article in the link below on JHaglin, I only grazed through and it is obviously an interveiwer in support of him, so clearly will have some bias..

I was other then aware the crime rate studies were being challenged...once again...the knower, the known and the process of knowing. I was one of 7000 or so meditators upon which some of these crime rate studies were based on, and it was a very powerful, purifying and deepening experience for me. I also recall a study done in Africa where after teaching the prisoners TM, the recidivism was so low they actually closed one the the prisons. And the warden at the prison I visit, tells us that he sees a lot of changes in the prsionsers who learn meditation and/or Centereing Prayer, which is exactly like TM..(the process of instruction anyway...without a puja..). So I have to say that it is still my experience and that of others I know that I tend to trust more..

According to an article on Centering Prayer on Shalom Place...CP actually originated from a desire to bring more eastern practices to the Church, as a way of bringing people back to it...A TM teacher was part of the group consulted,which must be why the process sounds so famililiar, as TM and CP are identical in process. TM is very easy,and effortless..which is most likely why they choose to use that format...to bad they didn't stick around for the knowledged and pass on the Science of Creative Intelligence with it.. (SCI)
I like the article and John H. as he is very vigilant to not criticize, but rather focus's on creative solutions, as he sees them. There are some other up lifting articles at that link too.
http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/nov3/hagelin.htm

Virya (pauline),

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/so...estore/af00758d.html

Here is an eight minute clip of Ken Wilber explaining how four years of meditation can jump a person two stages vertically on most psychological scales, versus .5 stages for other forms of therapy.
Yes, we can empty alot of jail cells, as Thomas Keating's centering prayer and other groups have proved at Folsom Prison in California. Most promising!

Father Basil Pennington, who died in a car accident last summer, was a TM practitioner at
the time when 10,000 people per month were traveling to India in search of enlightenment.
Fellow Cistercian (Trappist) monks Thomas Keating
and William Menninger developed the Centering Prayer method as an option for Christians. (Hey, we've been doing this for 900 years! )

A few caveats regarding the Maharishi:

http://www.strippingthegurus.c...apters/maharishi.asp

And the more neutral wiki view:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...cendental_Meditation

Did you hear the one about the yogi who put off his visit to the dentist in an effort to transcend
dental medication?

Peace, Love and Joy! mm <*)))))><

I wondered if there would eventually be a mixed message from you MM....I am puzzled by you.

I'm off to dance right now but will try to read the links you sent this weekend. I might not be able to hear the Wilber thing though as the sound on my computer in broken....I would very much like to though.

Meanwhile my thoughts on this post:
We can look for the negative outside us in regards to anything and that is what we will hear and see and focus on. I don't see how it does the world any good to do that. In fact I think it perpetuates the problems, which lie in ourselves. I know all too well how much negative press there is about TM. In fact, my many TM buddies and I make fun of the movement all the time, even as we delight in our bliss from our practise. In fact you I could tell you things that aren't even in the press, to my knowledge. And yes, there are some real loonies amongst the TM ranks..some we jokingly call former Nazis, working of their Karma..(they're the blind devotees, at the top of movement.. Hagelin was pretty cool though...
But the practice and knowledge have been priceless for me..and a life saver from the abuse of my childhood , much of it rooted in abuse from the Church, and it has ultimately led me to the many wonderful souls and teachers I've met along the way. Fortuneately I did not experience any abuse from TM. Perhaps if Centering Prayer had been taught to me as a child by the Church, I might of never left it's fold. (the article on Sholom Place does not say anything about it being 900 years old..where can I read about that? ) CP was not made available to me and my soul was desperately hungry for more then what it had to offer and I was very disillisioned by much of what I saw and experienced in my home and some in my college days. LIving at ALC was great though.

Apparently this disillussionment has been true for the thousands of others who have left. And I think the Chuch needs to ask what they are doing wrong..I think people are by nature very hungry to know God and somehow God was made very unappetizing to them...How did that happen? When being in relatiionship with God is what we are made for?

I entered the world innocent. We all do. (And I choose not to get into a original sin discussion here) And my search has been an innocent unfolding of experience, then knowledge which either supports or questions that experience, and then more experience in light of that knowledge, which either causes me to question or support the knowledge. Some people seem to get the knowledge first..and have experience to support it later... But in the end, what defines Truth for any of us, comes down to our inner experience of the world around us and whether it makes sense to us and helps us thrive and grow...Outside authority and opinions cease to matter. But to each is his or her own I suppose.
I'd never heard that particular TM joke, not sure I get it...but I know and enjoy lots of them. Here's one:

Q. How many TM'rs does it take to screw in a
light bulb?

A. I can't tell you.

it's sort of an inside joke about non- disclosure ..(the Nazi control stuff) But even the control is rooted in a desire to respect the knowledge, and I the knowledge I do respect..

Peace, Love and Joy, Pauline

MM, I find the teachings of Ramana Maharshi very enlightening indeed. Here is a website with many books available in PDF by Sri Ramanasramam. It is a great website.

http://www.ramana-maharshi.org/

I also wonder what your opinion is of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. I had a friend who studied at Maharishi University. It is in Iowa I think. He had a mental breakdown at school during the TM-Sidhi program. He now renounces Maharishi.

I enjoyed his writtings on the bhagavad gita though. I find myself geared more towards a buddhist path. This conflicts less with my Christianity than Hinduism does. Buddhism strikes me more as a way of life than a religion. What are your thoughts?

Virya (Pauline),

I think a person could get really screwed up from
Centering Prayer (I know that I did), Vipassana, TM,
Vedanta, Sufi Dancing, therapy or Twelve Steps...etc

The joke was only a joke. The way I heard it was, "did you hear about the Buddhist monk who...?"

That Stripping the Gurus book seems a tad bit heavy-handed to me, but it could spare a few people some problems in the long run...

Since you are a therapist and spiritual director
you might be able to help me with this. Since I was a child, I have had a fear of India. My dad's
mother was Christian Scientist. She had these cobras and elephants and there was something otherworldly about them that frightened me. To this day I fear people from India when I meet them
and I have a deeper prejudice against these religions than any other. Why, I do not know... ?

Peace, Love and Joy!

Eric, where have you been, you rascal!!!
We're a bunch of old farts in our forties and fifties. Please help us with our generational handicap. Buddhism, what flavor? Start a thread please!

caritas, mm <*))))><

Hey, MM. I've been around. I finally got back on the internet. My work put up a block against non-work related websites. Now I actually have to do work at work .

There is no generational gap. Didn't you hear 50 is the new 40!

I have been trying to integrate my Kundalini awakening with my everyday life and my Christianity. Actually it was integrated with my Christianity from the beginning. Some how I lost track of that and dove off into some other beliefs that were foreign to me. It took me a while to get back on track. Everything has been great in the Kundalini department these days. It took several months for all the unpleasant physical effects to subside.

I'm not into any specific flavor of Buddhism. Although I do admire Zen Buddhism, especially the interesting Koans that get me thinking. But the 8-fold path in general helps me stay focused on my development.

The vast number of Hindu deities scares me away from it. That's not to say I don't find it useful. But it seems to me that for someone who is in a weak spiritual state it can become overwhelming and confusing.

This is a great thread. I hope you all keep it going.

BTW... I have also heard about the enlightenment age coming in the near future. Many groups seem to agree. From New Age, Gnostic, Hindu etc etc. I think the only ones who say other wise are the Fundamentalist. For them it is Armageddon or bust.

Still haven't had a chance to read or listen to the links MM, but will try to later this weekend. welcome Eric..And thanks for joining us.

MM: What in heavens name ever gave you the idea that I am a therapist or spiritual director?

The only therapy I do is massage therapy. My other work history has included: working with troubled teens, teaching kindegarten,(at Maharishi Age of Englightment no less...a sort of one room school house in Radience Ideal Village, just so you know that I am VERY familiar with the pro's and con's of the TM movement, enough to keep a healthy distance but vested interest in it) I even sold diamonds for a TM'rs managed company. While there I started "therapy" for about two years, after I started "spacing out" all the time due to trauma's from childhood..(not a good thing to do when working with diamomds) that's how I found out about my Dads bi-sexuality and the priest who repeatedly abused him, his brother and some of his friends. I was asking my mother lots of questions to try to understand the roots and causes of the dysfunctions in our family and in me. I was in individual and group therapy for about two years., and got a lot out of both....She was fantastic, a former outward bound leader and won some kind of award for excellence in leadership in therapy nationwide.

The only spiritual direction I've been exposed to has been indirect from the many wise but very powerful spiritual teachers I've known and a few, very wise friends I've met along the way...Some of wisest, in hind site, were the ones who really knew how to push my buttons and even deliberately did so. My friends couldn't stand them, nor could they understand why I tried to relate to them at all. I just find that it's important work to get past one's innate predjudices, as they it make us dig deep, where the best treasures are, unless experience gives us consistent messages that our prejudices are warranted, prudent assertations ofa sitution or a person, then they are there to protect us in some way. I have always tried to learn from all that Great Mystery brings my way, but that's just my way, my path. Interestly it's consistent with the spiritual names both Amma and Grandfather Macki gave me. And while our own paths might tend to color our dialague and our way of processsing with others, it does not mean one is better then the other. Different paths can and do intersect all the time, and will in some ways be experienced as friction....at first anyway. But if all are doing their inner work, the friction goes away. In fact succeeding in that to me is a sign of having really worked ones path.

Eric, I was introduced to the 8 fold path a few years ago and think Nature is telling me to reviiw it again. I met some cool Buddhist priests after a InterPlay fundraiser for Katrina. They were suprisingly delightful jolly folk.. They were even some women priests and they had all shaved their heads, somethinng I had a strong urge to do a few years ago for some reason, but chickened out..They say it's very purifying to do so..

Sorry to hear about your freind in the TM movement Eric. Having a long time connection to the TM movement I thought I might be able to give you a bigger picture of it..as there are good and bad perspectives on everything under heaven.
The Siddhis are VERY purifying and very powerful, especially when done in group practice. I don''t know when your friend learned, but when I got the Siddhi's in 1983 or so, they had a very extensive in-take form to try to prevent that sort of thing. Apparently it was in response to the fact that when the movement first started the long meditation retreat/courses..some people really went beserk.

We will each have our own ideas about why that happened. My take on it, is that it was a combination of 3 things: 1. The general mass consciousness at the time being so dense, 2. each indiviual own physiology and psychic make-up, and 3. the power of the practice itself.
This is why Maharishi worked to bring out all the knowledge of all braches of the Vedas, and the Science of Creative Intelligence. So that people would better understand what was happening to their phyisiologies and psyches. Ayurveda is very helpful to balance the doshsa's, especially Pancha Karma. I am starting to work as a tech at a new clinic here. I will be getting paid relatively little but I LOVE PK and have always wanted to learn it.. and highly recommend it to anyone having difficulty with kudilini..

Unfortunatley, after they created the intake forms as a way of determining if one was ready for the siddhis, some people would 'lie' on the intake forms about there experiences in meditation or in life...because they wanted the Siddhis so bad. (I am not saying your friend did this Eric, only that it happened alot) They were not willing to trust that the questions were there to assist their purification process and experience, so that it was gentle and gradual. Incremenatality, Incrementality..baby steps are so essential to everything. And the Movement of course was also concerned about it's own reputation, as these sorts of incidents with people really hurt it...hence all the negative press. But true spiritual practice in my experience is not all light and warm fuzzys...our deepest fears and pain WILL and SHOULD eventually show their face so as to be transformed in the light of conscious awareness... And ulitimately, are we not all each our own Master; the words "Call no one Father, but your Father in Heaven" come to mind and are somewhere in Bible..) Each individual soul is ultimately responsible for his or her own choices....no Church, no Guru is responsible for our life, and the really good ones let and encourage you to make your own decisions in my experience...they just teach the the principles by which to guide your decisions. In the end, we are the ones who have to answer for our choices.

I was only in Maharishis precence once..far in the back of a huge meeting hall...but I saw many videos of him speaking and always loved them and his gentle spirit. My dear freind Gene, a wild and crazy, very gifted, visionary artist, imo. see www.medicinehorsestudio.com (stuios)? Gene was personally taught TM by Maharishi and also use to love Maharishi, and she still loves TM to this day... but when we heard some new thread of gossip about him, she let it affect her feelings about him. But she had long hated the TM movement and all the powertrips of some of the TM'rs. This seems to be what happens when any spiritual teacher starts something, including Jesus I think. I saw it all the time around Maharishi and now with Amma. We all listen to the same words but everyone "hears" a differnt message, they hear what they need or want to hear at whatever level they are at and that can end up getting twisted into fitting our more finite understanding, and if they happen to thrive on power, then be all the more aware around them.

Gene contintues to teach TM though, but in the way and at the price Maharishi personally told her to 40 years ago, much to the anger of the more Nazi TM'rs...She teaches for whatever anyone can afford. In the early days, Maharishi was very influenced by his first followers after first coming here in 1956, to re-package the "Spiritual Generation Movement" as a "relaxation technique" so as to attract people of influence to it. They told him to go for university students and business people. The idea being to get as many people of influence to start meditating as quickly as possible to more quickly assist world peace, and raise world consciousness, with a more 'enlighted' influence on society.. But he was a monk for God's sake !!!!He had lived in a cave for years.. and a very innocent one at that, in the ways of the world..(This was my experience of him kinesthetically ...from the quality of his voice, the simplicity of his speech, the gentleness of his laughter and body movements.....but I'm kinesthetic..I learn through my body.

So I think Maharishi was and hopefully still is, very sincere. After so many huge dissappointments, he has not given up on his vision...and that takes courage, a quality fo character something all of us could use more of today....Any person who could come to America empty handed and create a world-wide organization from nothing more then simple meditation practice and teaching simple yet profound Truth as he knew it and wanted to share with the world, to as many people as he has successfully reached, which included some very brilliant minds, and some very talented succesful people has got something in his consciousness that I would think anyone would do well to learn from... And Eric I agree...his translation of the Bagava-gita is excellent...easy to understand and the most insightful about my own spritual journey. I hate that TM is now so expensive...but Maharishi said more should be charged in the first world countries, because unfortunatley, in an affluent society, people tend value things more when it costs them more..and that does seem to be true in this society.. Many worldly people tend to associate the value of something with it's price. So it's hard to say..was his effort at trying to raise world consciousness by going in through the backdoor, so to speak, unethical?

The best spiritual teachers in my experience, work with, and within the values and consciousness of the times in order to get as many of them as possible to listen. That to me is wisdom. And now that I think about it, maybe that is why Jesus chose fisherman to be his disciples? He didn't go to the religious leaders to start his work, where people already had very fixed ideas about who and what God is. He went to an "industry" upon which all people depended....and used metaphors and analogies about shepards and farmers...also industries upon which they depended, they had more influence.

I can see how and why some of the Hindi deities might scare someone. They have never 'scared' me, but I never really felt any particular affinity for them either, until two events. One was watching an Indian dance at a Smithionian exhihibit on the "Celebration of Aditi" during the 7000 course..I was overcome by it's beauty and and grace....really strange. I was crying and laughing at the same time...It deeply deeply stirred my soul. A friend and long time meditator told me "must be some past life memory." And as I have had many other similar messages from different sources at unexpected times, I see no reason why I should not be open to the idea that reincarnation is real..though I have very different musing about how it work. But I'm not attached...it doesn't matter to me one way or the other if it's true. But if reincaration is real, then obviously I must've had a farily positive experience with Inida...and it's possible MM may have had a more negative experience there. To me, reincarnation could explain alot of our unconscious fears.

Another event was that a sweet little monk like man who spent a lot of one on one time with Maharishis started having pujas for the differnent 'dieiies" My understanding and experience is that they are not so much
'dieties' but merely artistic represetations of various vibrations of God's attributes. so for me it is a much more coloful, diverse religion. Different puja's have a distinctly different vibration and produce tangible effects in one consciousness, if done with full attention. The form is merely a way to anchor one's consciousness,so as to assist it's transformation. ,,similar to how saints have different gifts and personalities. It could be a rock or a statue...as long as it is something that has a deep symbolic meaning to you. But I imagine it helps that there are millions of other people who relate to a particular form in a particular way..as the collective consciousness has an affect on us too, and that can make it more powerful. This to me is the part of power and beauty of having a Mass said in the the same way around the globe. But to me it looks like many people are not fully present when at Mass, there doesn't seem to be as much vigilance in the particiapants , probably becauose it is not not as participitory...so it's easier to let the mind wander. And if the priest doesn't seem very awake through it..then whats the point? I persoally find it less transformative then a good puga.

Henri always started his puja's with Ganesha, which is the Vedic tradition.. Ganeshes vibration feels very jovial..santa-like. I love Ganesha..and feel lots of love from that puja. Pujas always start with him as he is the remover of obstacles. Female dieties follow to make us more 'receptive' and then the male 'dieties'.

I never understood the scarier 'dieties' like Kali or Durga either. They look so mean and vicious, but it is said that Kali, is the most compassinate, yet most fierce Mother of All. When I met Amma who many believe is an incarnation of Kali....I have to say..there is something disticntly tender and awesomely loving about Her Grace,...we don't even notice that she is cutting our heads off...all the more Amma, all the more...so that we can more fully delight in the Biss and compassionate Grace of Her presence.. But then I'm still new to Amma and maybe still being honey-mooned....But from what I hear and have experienced so far, She a soul worth having as a friend, and I trust Her when she says She is with us always...because I can feel She is with me.

Virya (Pauline),

That was your best post, a little friction brought that out. Thank you ever so much. As I said, your are a therapist and spiritual director. I do hope that you remain patient with my often ignorant and arrogant self. You seem to be precisely the influence I have been awaiting and praying for.

The only way it could get better is if you get interested in Aurobindo. I have several books of a thousand pages each, and I will have many questions regarding "Integral Yoga."

You share from your most precious asset, your experience, strength and hope. You remind me of a twelve stepper, a very tactile/kinesthetic one.

I also have much scar tissue and such. Pain is a good teacher, but joy is definitely better...

Everyone loves Ganesh!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesh

I remain in your debt. Thank you! <*))))>< mm

Virya,

I have a Christmas gift 4U. Hope U like it. It's a tactile/kinesthetic imaginated Kahlil Gibran story.

http://leb.net/gibran/works/jesus/jesus.html

Virya,

Thank you for that post.

I am not sure what drove my friend over the edge. He was at the university for 3 years. He was a born again Christian the year before he left then he took up TM in our city. Later that year he left to go to Maharishi.

He had told me about yoga hopping and his experiences at the dome. I was very closed minded at the time and thought meditation was baloney.

Then he got involved in supplements. One was called nanotech I think. It was going around the campus. He told me he took it and couldn't sleep for 3 days and that is when it all started.

There are some really bizarre things about Hinduism. It seems that there is also a diabolic path to enlightenment as well. I don't resonate with that at all. My friend has instructed me that deep within it there is even animal sacrifices that can clear your karma. I also read about one group in India that believes intercourse with a very young girl can boost energy levels and restore youth. Don't ask me where I read that it was years ago. I am sure these things do not apply to Hinduism as a whole.

There is a Buddhist Dome about 2 miles from my house. They have a 2week retreat for $800. I am thinking of going. They have a very strict schedule and I think it may do me some good. My chakras have been blocked for about a month now. I seem to be having very low energy levels and sleeping very little. During my first Kundalini awakening my sleep was affected. I am not sure if I even do sleep anymore as I think I am fully aware the whole night. Yet I dream but when I do I am just an observer. This is starting to have an effect on my waking life I am sure. I have not had a good meditation for a while.

Also huge boost in awareness seem to happen at the worst time. Like in a meeting at work or while driving. Also the libido has been all over the spectrum.

Thank you for sharing with me and I look forward to your further posts.

I will also note that I am almost finished reading The concise yoga vasistha.

This has been one of the most enlightening books I have ever read!

There are some very intersting Koans hidden within the book that really unlock the sleeping mind.

Thank you MM for such a sweet cyber-space gift! I'm actually blushing. ..oh my..that's scarey! Now you know ..earth girls really are easy. I was thinking of sending you some kind of special gift or thought too..(oh no...could I be developing a cyber-space crush?) I should confess that I keep noticing my minds' eye image of you keeps morphing on me... you seem to be becoming my projection of the perfect man. This cyberspace dialoguing with strangers migh be a wondeful spiritual discipline fraught with danger....My imagination is wild! I mean it's very liberating in one way, but feels kind of weird at the same time..doesn't it? or is it just me? Is that too much information? My family tells me I way too open, even some of my friends, but I've always found it opens hearts.. You've been doing this awhile...does it ever feel weird to you?

I'm yanking on you a bit MM, but partly serious too...because I really did blush..and... oh hell ...why try to cover it up...everything I said is true ...

Eric, if I have given you the impression that I am a Hindu, I would just like to say that I don't really think of myself as have any pariticular religious affilitation per se.. I have been very influenced by teachers from that culture, as India has produces some pretty amazing souls on the planet, and I love Indian music, chanting, pujas etc..but I'm pretty eclectic really. I guess creativity (InterPlay) is becoming as much my religion as my meditation has been. My most frequented "church" or community (2 to 3 x weekly) for about 12 years now, is a community of dancers, from various broad walks of life. Awesome, talented people really. We just had another fundraiser tonight for the Earthquake victims...we raised about $400. We all watched "RISE" together and then danced our hearts out, and even 'krumpt' our booties off a little, but not as good as they do in the movie. You'll have to rent movie to understand. Then we spontaneosly started singing improvised chanting which turned into Gospel songs ...all accompanied by the drumming of a guest African drummer/story teller/priest of the Babalowo tradition out of Nigeria,Africa. A beautiful,alive compassionate man....his spiritual name is Baba Alaafia, which means something like Father Joy and Peace Bringer..or somthing like that..and so he was.

We always have a closing circle after dancing and people share whatever they want about their dance ...straight from their heart...Well Alaafia gave us a long, BEAUTIFUL, very inspiring talk..almost like a sermon. I'll write another post about RISE soon, in the movie review section, as I would recommend anyone suffering from Kunilini blockage to go see it....and to dance like that as often as you can.

We don't really dance quite as bad ass as they do, not the whole time anyway, but dancing the 'Chaos' rhythm can get pretty wild sometime and it feels great to let the body go like that, while being witnessed. Really helps one let go of harmful shame filled concepts. There's about 150 in our community with a few more women then men, ranging in age from 80 to 2, with several familes 3 generations deep. One is a blind professor of English at UT, and one has MS and rides around on his skooter, and we take turns dancing with him. It's all non-verbal for 2 hours of dance. The music is mostly world beat and put together in such a way that every emotion is explored. Everypone dances from the inside out... somtimes tender, sometimes venting anger or joy....sometimes solo, sometimes in body piles on the floor. Young men with older women, women with women, men with men, old men with young girls, married with non-married, total no attachment to the body, no judgements or shame about the body...we TRY anyway to leave all that at the door, and are always free to move from body to body.. It's great medicine for the body, heart and soul..and helps one to sleep like a baby...and the witnessing stuff...it's come and gone for me over the years, but last 3 years, it's most of the time..I sort of like it actually, but I work nights..I get to sleep there, but it's interrupted. So I take naps... Lots of creative inspiration seems to come from it...

Peace and Joy to all..Pauline