Greetings Phil and company,
My name is Steve. I am a happy husband, father and grandfather, insurance agent in Los Angeles and life-long Pentecostal Christian.

I just purchased and finished my first reading of Phil's book, Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality. This past month has suddenly become for me a crash course in Eastern terms of spirituality as I try to process my latest experience, and so Google took me beneficiently to Phil's work and others. I have clipped and copied below a section of my personal journal, written just after my first deliberate "energy raising" some weeks ago and the succeeding sleep-time experience. Since childhood, I have sought to integrate with Christianity my ongoing struggles amidst "awareness during sleep paralysis" (ASP). The classic Incubus or Succubus encounter is a common theme therein, though I had always before been somehow protected from that particular trauma. I do not include any detail of that ASP episode here, but anybody interested is welcome to read further, starting from the public area of my Yahoo Briefcase area (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/sd_evans). There my Forward to ASP Journal contains a link to the journal itself at bottom. ASP & Anthroposophy Intro explains my attempts to illuminate the ASP phenomenon by way of Rudolf Steiner's observations regarding spiritual initiations from ancient to the present times.

I thoroughly enjoyed and appreciate Phil's book. Looking forward to contributing to forum discussions in my own clumsy way. And here is my journal entry, [edited] somewhat for clarity. My initial conclusions were admittedly pre-mature, pending further study:

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Another resolve [lately] has been to pause and try to see whether people [encountered via night-time ASP] have any obvious aura about them. I am quite persuaded that I have reached a plateau in development of spiritual sensibilities. It is time to emphasize growth of a spiritual body relevant to normal daytime experience and community. [My wife] Linda has been seeking alternative medical help for joint weakness, energy deficits and allergies. Various chiropractic and acupressure therapies draw from a bio-spiritual understanding of human growth and healing. There is a remarkable level of agreement among sciences of opposing origins, modern and ancient, as to the location and organization of spiritual energy centers supporting the material body. Reading Michael Talbot's book, Holographic Universe, also triggered curiosity over how many of these practitioners may secretly (or subconsciously) see/sense the presence and movements of subtle bodies energizing and directing the life of a patient's hardening physical form. I found myself asking Linda [regarding one practitioner], "Does she see anything?", while reconsidering all of Rudolf Steiner's descriptions of the phenomena.

I went online to find testimonials and tutorials by self-declared seers, regardless of their background. I wanted to examine their accounts of actual experience as distinct from their resulting belief systems or theories of reality. As anticipated, I found a lot of confusion and deception. But one website was more humbly candid and less self-serving than most and seemed to warrant some serious attention. On a whim, I braved to try some of the prescribed techniques to "awaken" vortices (chakra) and "raise" or unblock the flow of spiritual energy (via meridians). What could I lose?

The result was astonishing!

It has been a long time since I felt such surges of spirit, not since Pentecostal revival meetings of my youth. But like the glory fading from the face of Moses, those mountaintop sensations were soon eclipsed by the daily life noise of activity, obligations and stresses. I recognized the various stirrings immediately. They were old friends. It's the same phenomenon that CS Lewis referred to as being "surprised by Joy". I had always welcomed the flush and tingle as my spirit answering the prompting of God's own Spirit. This I encountered most often as eternal meaning unlocked from the seeming mundane or inane�Truth, Hope, Beauty and Justice. I had been introduced to this Reality in various expressions and settings during childhood. Indeed, the ever-reliable return of these "surprises" has served to ward off hopelessness, purposelessness and atrophy of will amidst the ongoing stresses and disappointments of adult life.

I had been commenting to myself and others how accustomed and accepting I was becoming, approaching my 49th year, accustomed now to a level of pain and discomfort that was once the domain only of severe injury or sickness. These joint aches used to visit me rarely during a bout of flu. Now it is every morning and much of each day. This body of flesh has already become so hardened, brittle and complaining of the simplest of tasks and postures. It has required a week or more of recovery after each weekend of household chores or projects before daring to start another job. It is simply part of the price of maintaining a modest living space for my family. But with another half my lifetime to come, it was quickly becoming a daunting proposition, physically speaking. I was already anticipating the need to hire young muscle just to accomplish a bit of shoveling or climbing.

I started the experiment on a Monday. Sure enough, the workweek threatened to start with a migraine, as usual. This time, every odd moment was occupied with "energy raising" of the spiritual kind and "mentally" massaging problem areas. I found it easy to "touch" those spots with dream hands, and the pain therefore is great help. The sensations were much like that waking sleep-state massage experience of a 2004 journal entry. It feels literally like my tiredness and aches are being bathed in liquid warmth from outside penetrating deeply. And the flow to problem spots would continue pumping on its own even while I turned my mind and motion to other things. Stressed or compressed vertebrae would then pop back into proper position by themselves as I moved. The headache continued to threaten all day, but it never fully materialized and I never reached for the Advil. I found myself practically leaping from chairs instead of the "normal" creaking creep to standing. Breathing was a delight. Walks to and from the office felt like swimming, even flying through waves of restorative energy, as if freely harvested from the earth beneath, the air around me, the sunlight, smells of flowers and plants, sounds of life and movement. Every physical sense, every movement was drawing upon the activity of my environment like a tree's roots sapping life from the earth and sky. I reached home feeling like I had already eaten a protein-enriched meal. Then actually eating! The flavor, the aroma, the texture of food ... just the smell felt nourishing, then downright orgasmic going down. But I was fully satisfied after only a few bites, each one flooding my system with new energy flowing from lips and tongue into my head, heart and loins.

There also returned the haunting sense of disconnect, feeling out of phase with my body in waves of near-vertigo. It was like I could turn or move before my body followed. A constant delay, body slightly out of sync with my spirit. Some moments it seemed that I hovered slightly above my head rather than perched behind physical eyes as usual. I would go about shaking my head from time to time to regain normal focus, as if I had hyperventilated.

Throughout Monday and Tuesday, my body was feeling so full of vitality, it seemed only logical and natural to direct the overflow as prayer for my loved ones. Space and time didn't seem to matter. Those soul connections are ever present, always within ready reach. I don't know if my contributions were doing any good, whether the flow from my heart and out my hands was felt or received. But I also kept remembering, visualizing a prior ASP experience wherein I attempted to pray for Linda [after an auto accident injury]. The sense of energy was similar, but the direction [of flow] was reversed. During the ASP event, power came from outside, from beyond her body as I reached through her toward the approaching Light. And when it arrived, the power exploded through her body, up my arms and blasted my form back over the threshold. That was inexhaustible power of cosmic proportions. I still wonder that I survived the collision.

Then came Wednesday, the day after my Succubus attack. I found "energy raising" less responsive. The weather was very still compared to Monday and Tuesday. Thursday, I tried just sitting in a meditative mode mid-afternoon, and that helped. Familiar aches and head pressure were all returning. Walks were more refreshing. Isolated moments of spiritual warmth and movement helped me to cope. Friday was very busy, yet I was questioning Heaven all day. Something was wrong with the spiritual methodology found on that website. It seemed backwards, somehow --obsolete. It didn�t jive 100 percent with Steiner�s teaching, and less so with Biblical principles. Echoes of Watchman Nee [early 1900's Chinese evangelist, book Latent Power of the Soul] and Apostle Paul kept sounding �latent power of the fallen soul; becoming an empty vessel poured out, then filled with Christ�s Spirit; in weakness, I AM strong. Even the website writer acknowledged that some spiritual healers locate power to heal from somewhere outside rather than from within themselves, linking their subjects via word or touch directly with that Superior source. I searched the website for references to Jesus Christ. There were several acknowledgements of higher power and purpose, be that God or Buddha or the Great Spirit. There was no conception, however, of the work and presence of Christ. In contrast, Steiner�s teaching starts and finishes with the Mystery of Golgotha and Christ with us.

Then it dawned on me. I could do just as the ancient methods dictated, draw (read "suck") from the earth life-energy and store it in my loins for future use. An impersonal, mechanistic routine follows. They direct that you begin with the lower (base) vortex whenever raising energy. I could feel it opening there, but not so strongly as they describe. They even warn that it might trigger sexual arousal. My energy flow seemed to want to come from above rather than below. Steiner taught that awakening should start with the "I AM", the center behind one�s brow. Indeed, when I appealed to the Spirit of Christ, then waited patiently, the answering rush of power would start at my crown, flood the back of my head (another acknowledged "storage" center), then down to wherever I directed. As the energy continued to pulse, I could think compassionately of my daughter or grandbaby, then my heart center would swell to overflowing and stream outward through my arms and hands. I started to think rather that my energy raising was primarily on behalf of others and the overflow available for my own sustenance. That is clearly the New Testament model.

I [surmised] it is the Neo-Hindu or Buddhist or westernized New Age teacher borrowing [stealing, distorting?] from Christian fact [i.e. In the beginning was the Word ...] rather than the reverse. Just as modern Humanist philosophy would be ethically bankrupt without its declared nemesis, the Judeo-Christian Bible, so are all spiritualist worldviews [ultimately] bereft of value were it not for the Reality of Christ's sacrifice and resurrection. The old way was to wander about looking to suck up energy (like the Succubus). The new Way is to remain contentedly the "empty vessel", ever available for Christ�s Spirit to refill me with His power as needed to give away freely and continuously.

The Succubi approaching me found little to steal from the accustomed lower reservoir. Perhaps they even have license to tap that keg.
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Welcome Steve, and thank you for your generous sharing. I've read through your post and am struck by your discerning awareness of the various movements of energy and subtle phenomena. It sounds like the ASP struggles have been both a blessing and a cross for you. I'm not familiar with the Incubus / Succubus struggles you describe, except through the literature. Maybe you can say more about that sometime.

The distinctions you're making between stirring up latent energies of the soul on one's own using various "techniques" versus turning all this over to the care of Christ is vital, imo. You might check out the kundalini forum on this board sometime; we've had a lot of sharing and discussion about that.

Looking forward to hearing more from you.

Phil

Yes Phil. That's exactly how I have referred to ASP ... blessing/curse. It's a terror and a rapture. I will share more about that on the Kundalini forum, also the Succubus encounter (though mine didn't amount to anything). It has also been called the Old Hag or Witch Riding. Some suggest that alien abductees are actually remembering ASP experiences, especially those who tell of being sexually violated.

The energy raising "techniques" were simply a mental brushing or massage of body areas, starting with extremities. The focussed area (hand or foot) soon starts to feel warm and tingly and expanded, something like when your foot "goes to sleep" after restricted circulation, only very much nicer. The mental brushing action is then broadened to the whole limb, then both limbs, up and down the spine and finally over the whole body. Instead of days or months of practice, my body responded first try within moments. Soon my whole form was buzzing head to foot. But again, I will save that for the Kundalini forum.

Weeks later now, the sensation is like living in two interpenetrating bodies, each with its own circulatory currents and breathing rhythms. I don't do any yoga (never have), nor is the mental "brushing" necessary now. All I have to do is turn my attention to Christ's Spirit, a simple attitude of worship and patiently wait for His response. The top of my head feels like it opens and starts flickering, like a cool fire or fizzy shower. Then I just direct attention to my neck or back or aching joint and a rush of energy follows from my head flushing downward, massaging from inside and dissolving pain or stiffness into soothing heat. When I am praying for somebody else, the energy blossoms and swells from my chest in pulses outward through my arms and hands. I find myself syncronizing physical breathing to the spiritual energy rhythm, and the resulting sensations crescendo in a way that can only be described as orgasmic. Except that it is upper body, nothing sexual about it.

Sorry, I should be saving this for the other forum. I knew next to nothing about Hinduism or yoga before these recent weeks, never heard of kundalini. I wasn't seeking or expecting anything like this. The only "guru" I will ever submit to is the living Christ. No wonder Jesus said, I am the Life. He meant it literally.

Anyway, thanks for your reply, Phil.

Steve, you can share your experiences here if you wish. If you'd like to join one of the discussions on the kundalini forum, feel free.

If you're willing, would you say a little more about how you distinguish (experientially) between the Holy Spirit and these energy processes? You've already touched on this, but clarifying this issue is always helpful.

Hi Steve and welcome to Shalom Place

I read some of your info available on your briefcase site recommended, and do hope you will share more of your Incubus/Succubus experiences that we may become more knowledgeable in this area.

One must raise concerns when any sexual energy comes and invades a person from outside themselves, but one who is birthed anew in the light of the Holy Spirit is protected from these outside invasions by the Holy Spirit's power of protection within, than experiencing sexual energies coming from within their bodies and not coming from an external source it is given by God for your benefit in the kundalini integration and transformation especially when an individual is celibate or without a marriage partner. God may also use these sexual energies within oneself for sexual healing especially in rape and traumatic sexual acts done to a person by another. So my advice to everyone is to know the source of sexual energies and where it is coming from. Is it a blessing from God or from an external source as Incubus/Succubus.

In any situation of solitary sexual energy experience one needs the spirit of discernment and God's power and protection together with prayers in knowing the truth.

So I hope that you will share more on this subject with us.

Freebird to Steve June 1, 2006:
"...hope you will share more of your Incubus/Succubus experiences that we may become more knowledgeable in this area."

Freebird,
I would have very little to share in regard to sexual experiences, positive or negative, during sleep paralysis. Almost all of my ASP (Awareness during Sleep Paralysis) has been otherwise. For many people, Incubus or Succubus encounters dominate their ASP. I do wonder that my first apparent Succubus encounter immediately followed my recent awakening to spiritual energy movement. You will find a great deal of information re sleep paralysis and Incubus or Succubus via Google searches. Also see Trionic Research Institute at www.trionica.com and the research of Dr David Hufford, his book titled The Terror that Comes in the Night. The real issue of ASP is the terror of finding onself fully conscious as a spiritual being while seemingly divested of the physical body. Once past the fear, ASP initiates another kind of spiritual transformation (maybe Kundalini in nature and significance). ASP may then become a gateway to incredible visionary experiences (as in my case, though I never sought such).


Phil to Steve May 30,2006:
"If you're willing, would you say a little more about how you distinguish (experientially) between the Holy Spirit and these energy processes? You've already touched on this, but clarifying this issue is always helpful."

Phil,
I have read through all the Kundalini forum exchanges. I may also jump in there to resume the Kundalini and Holy Spirit discussion. I believe my background and experience can contribute.

I have enjoyed a personal relationship with the Living Christ most of my life. I became acquainted with the Holy Spirit's presence and activity as a child. No ... never saw any appearance or heard any audible voice, but the relationship has always been very interactive nonetheless. It's rather like asking myself, How do I distinguish my wife from other womankind? I know her "voice". Even by email, it would be difficult for another woman to impersonate her communications convincingly. And if I couldn't see her, I am sure that I would recognize her using other senses, the way she moves, distinguishing habits of activity. Her personality envelops her whole environment, like an aura or cloud of lingering aroma.

Likewise, the Holy Spirit awakens "other senses" to nurture familiarity, spirit to Spirit. And so I am ever challenged to begin practicing conscious communion as an eternal citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven, a mode of communication beyond capabilities of human language and physical sensibility. It may actually be impossible for another spirit to convincingly masquerade as the Holy Spirit in my life ... not for long, anyway. I know His "voice".

As for the Holy Spirit's role regarding "these energy processes", my experience of the past couple days is telling.
I started discussion by calling this awakening an "energy raising" rather paradoxically. I should call it "energy shower", pouring in and filling up my being from above. It's not something I do; rather, I yield, trust and receive, then it flows with a Will to where it is needed. I can locate the need, such as a painful joint or heartburn. But the "energy" obviously has its own wisdom or know-how, as it will also rush to massage a muscle or internal organ where I was not consciously pained or stressed. (In fact, I need to study anatomy, so I understand better what is happening.)

Wednesday, I was very stressed throughout the day. The Holy Spirit was there. I know that, first because He promises never to leave, but also because when I paused to greet Him, my spiritual body received the answering "glow" at top of my head, then a "flow" to the rest of my being. But the Spirit's ministry was ever interrupted. Whenever I could get around to restarting the flow, it would be interrupted again. As the day went on, it seemed that the Spirit was no longer so responsive, and I began to feel very alone amidst the hounding of business and phones and customers and household affairs. Body aches increased and by evening my head was throbbing. About 11pm, I could finally pause to take a cold swim, then sit again in communion with Jesus. In just moments a rush of spiritual energy helped take the edge off my aches, but even my sleep that night was disturbed.

On reflection, I had to admit that "interruptions" of the Spirit's activity were mostly my own making. I was impatiently treating the "raising" of this energizing/healing energy as primarily a mechanism initiated by my "self" and "It" was subject to my control. A personal relationship just doesn't work that way (certainly not after the "honeymoon" is over). And a frustrated or driven state of mind, ever striving to refocus on "me", does not encourage the posture of veneration, humility and gratitude characteristic of communion with the Holy Spirit.

I started Thursday with a new attitude. After exercising, I sat at my office desk with this prayer: "Empower my spirit and sustain my body today, first for ministry to others." Then I focussed on my children, my grandchildren and dear wife at home. I even gave a nod of willingness to be used in behalf of problem customers and difficult neighbors. This day was busier, actually, than the prior day, however my communion with the Spirit was continuous. I felt energized and peaceful by evening, even more so than the morning.

I am finding that the Fruit of the Spirit is also my best invitation and sensitization to the movement of Christ's Spirit. I may ask and wait for spiritual ministry, but God's Spirit is sovereign. He may not respond quite the way I think He was trained. He is always respectful of my spirit in a humanly compatible way. He never imposes or presumes spiritual activity unless invited.

This, however, does not seem to be the character of many Kundalini risings that I read about. Kundalini energy is often described as a wild, alien intrusive force, animal-like in its behavior (thus associated animal or insectoid imagery/ mythologies). For this reason, more than any other, I do not thus far believe my recent Holy Spirit experience --however powerful and life-changing-- has anything to do with Kundalini.

The "voice" is different.

Hi Steve, I continue to enjoy your sharing with us. Besides Phil's book on kundalini with a Christian perspective, let me also recommend all the books written by Gopi Krishna on the kundalini. He has vast knowledge together with understanding of the process having gone through same. All religions can relate with what he writes and presents in his books. I agree that for some the kundalini process appears to be traumatic and alien, but for me within my new birth and kundalini integration and transformation it has been the most joyful gift and experience.

Your quote:

I became acquainted with the Holy Spirit's presence and activity as a child.
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Please share more on this. Also did you receive the new birth and regeneration as promised by Christ?.

As a counselor and healing practitioner I am aware of the healing gift of the Holy Spirit's flowing love and power in healing. On my own I can do nothing, and in my healing work I call upon God's graces in the name of Christ. My work entails prayers and total surrender to God knowing that His healing gift is entrusted to me solely to do His will and in and through His love as His servant, glory be Him.

Yes Freebird --I was, again, very young when I first acknowledged Jesus as Savior and accepted God's gift of rebirth and regeneration. You are probably right to clarify that, as many western New Age spiritualists will say they have encountered the Holy Spirit as one among many benevolent spirits, yet describe the Spirit as a manipulatable or impersonal force. This is not the view of Evangelicals. I was taught and still believe that it is the regenerative work of Christ's Spirit enabling his own to recognize his voice and presence as the sovereign indwelling Spirit of God.

I recall that Gopi Krishna proposed the Christian Holy Spirit to be the same force as Kundalini energy. That would lead me to suspect he had not yet known the Spirit of Christ as a distinct Person.

Thanks for your sharing, Steve. Your having read the kundalini forum is an impressive accomplishment. And you're still rational after having done so!

It sounds like you're sensitive to the Spirit and other phenomena. I think your analogy of knowing the feel/voice/presence is a good one. As Jesus put it, his sheep do learn to recognize and heed his voice.

You noted: Kundalini energy is often described as a wild, alien intrusive force, animal-like in its behavior (thus associated animal or insectoid imagery/ mythologies). For this reason, more than any other, I do not thus far believe my recent Holy Spirit experience --however powerful and life-changing-- has anything to do with Kundalini.

Maybe, maybe not. If it was a kundalini awakening and not merely an arousal, you'll know. We should also recognize that there are other energy phenomena that don't necessarily have anything to do with either kundalini or the Holy Spirit.

I don't go along with your characterization of kundalini, however. Remember, that forum and many others on the net receive a disproportionate number of entries from people in spiritual emergencies, and so what they describe is a rough ride. The term, insectoid, especially doesn't fit. Maybe you're referring to the buzzing sounds in the ears? Whatever the case, my sense has been that, for most people, the sense of intrusion diminishes as the process becomes more integrated.

Your point is well taken, Phil, re "a disproportionate number of entries from people in spiritual emergencies". And talk about a sense of intrusion-- We find the same happening in discussions about ASP, where forum entries make it seem to be all about a "threatening demonic presence" or "feeling of suffocation" or "sexual attack".

Anyway, until a month ago, I don't recall ever hearing or reading about kundalini. I realize that the serpent and fire are classic symbols, but there are accounts online, by experiencers and instructors, also typified by the following:

"Even in the smoothest kundalini awakening there will be some symptoms. There can be some aching and/or heat around the extremities of the spinal nerve.... Many other things can happen: Light burning sensations here and there.... The feeling of insects crawling on the limbs, or little pricks like they are biting occasionally during the day.... There can also be a varied assortment of goose bumps, occasional shivers, sexual arousal, inner buzzing and humming sounds, hot pinpricks, slight headaches, and other weird sensations.... You will find things like these in a normal kundalini awakening."

Here's another:
"The aspirant ... is likely to experience the movement of 'Pran Shakti' (life force) in the manner of crawling of an ant. Then he will experience the upliftment of Kundalini Shakti and also the activation of Muladhar Chakra."

References to insects are common:
"Itching, vibrating, prickling, tingling, stinging or crawling sensations"
"various animals sounds such as growling or chirping"
"inner sound or sounds ... birds singing, bees buzzing"
"Feelings like snakes or ants crawling on the body, particularly along the spine, or between the feet and head"
"a sensation synonymous to a row of ants ascending the spinal cord"

I found kundalini referenced to Egyptian mythology's scarab beetle: "The real you, or Scarab, is a ball of light that moves up and down your spiritual chakras"

And, of course, ancient Indian goddesses:
"Parvati - Maiden aspect of Kali.... Shiva's bride.... Also known by Maya, Sati, Durga, Shakti.... The cocoon, butterfly and the karmic golden wheel reflect Her deep connection with life and death, cause and effect, and transformation.... Maya - Virgin aspect of the triple Hindu Goddess, symbolized by a Spider, spinner of magic, fate and earthly appearances. The spider's web was likened to the Wheel of Fate and the spider to the Goddess as a Spinner, sitting at the hub of Her Wheel. Mother of the Enlightened One, Buddha."

OK, I see what you meant by "insectoid, Steve. Yes, those kinds of creepy-crawly sensations do happen. I've even written in my journal of having a sense of cobwebs in my head.

Interestingly, cocaine addicts also have a sense of ants crawling under their skin. When I worked in substance abuse counseling years ago, we'd see addicts who'd literally torn chunks of skin off their arms and faces in an attempt to squash the little buggers.

Take a look at some of these images by Alex Grey. I don't take them to be scientific depictions, but they do seem to be intuitive expressions of what I've called our metaphysical physiology. You can see how these subtle channels have nodes in them, and how the movements of energy entail working through node after node. It's bio-electricity, I'm sure, conducting through a medium of some kind that feels fluid -- hence the term, "liquid light" often being used to describe it. The "Psychic Energy System" piece is especially perceptive. There are the spiders and snakes; see the patterns?

Hi Steve, You remind me of myself ten years ago totally in the dark about kundalini. I remember my first research on the subject looking for books about kundalini in a new age bookstore. I really did not know what to look for, yet the very first book I was guided to was "the serpent power" by Avalon. I was scared stiff reading the book and imagined a giant snake within people.

It is good that you call upon the spirit of discernment as to what kundalini is. We should never accept anything on blind faith.

Kundalini is the evolutionary force within humanity. I am not going to influence you as to its benefits, but I will recommend to you to learn about same, the pro and con of this process. There is as mentioned previously a vast amount of information available.

Your descriptions of symptoms that some but not all experience in an awakening, is accurate. Some of the symptoms described can also be part of the signs of certain emotional, mental and physical illnesses, and have nothing to do with a kundalini experience.

Let me guide you to:

http://www.ecomall.com/gopikrishna/

In my own experience of kundalini integration and transformation I have been gifted by the birthing of the Holy Spirit's light from within my heart. My process is guided by the Holy Spirit of God and in Him I entrust this kundalini transformation.

In Christian terms my experience is the promised birth and lifting of the son of man like Moses lifting the staff in the wilderness. The light and life of Christ is alive within and the sun of righteousness is arising with healing in its wings. The internal body of light is expanding and no doubt will return to God upon my death. My fellow brother undergoing the same experience expressed it with a deep spiritual understanding. The internal birth is like a pregnancy which we now labor to bring forth fruit from God's Holy seed. It is also called the spirit/body of light being connected to Christ's body at all times. Christ tells us that you will see me as I am because you will be like me as My younger brother.

The truth for all of us is that we also must birth the Christ child of light and life within us. It is not sufficient enough to say now I accept Christ; we must be born again by the renewaL and regeneration of our minds and the union of our spirit to God's Holy Spirit. The day will come when we can say not I, but Christ lives in us. Believe me Steve when I tell you that I died to be reborn. For anything new there has to be a death.

Also remember your above descriptions of what people experience are symbols. There are not literally ants crawling over you, it just feels that way for some. Our whole earth is filled with symbolisms, it does not mean these gods and goddesses are a reality or exist after all our God is the One God and not divided. We also must be one without any division. Hindu Shiva and Shakti also represent this oneness in symbols. They split for their dance and come back together again. His lingam represents the fiery consciousness and Shakti the pure waters from above.

As far as the sexual expressions experienced by people in kundalini awakenings, sexual energy is also a gift from God. As we know this gift can we used rightly as in marriage and/or wrongly, by promiscuity, thereby having dire consequences. I had mentioned previously the need of awareness in a solitary sexual arousal and sexual experience, in knowing the source of same. Is it an invasion from an external source or is it a God given energy that is used for your internal healing and help given by God in the lifting of the son of man. Saint Theresa describes an ecstatic sexual union with God of total love and surrender. She was a celibate Nun. We know that The principle of life is fire which needs the living waters of life turning into steam together in allowing the lifting of a new born creature in Christ.

So be alert as you continue to research the kundalini process and call upon the spirit of discernment and truth.

Cross-posted with Freebird. (Good morning, and happy Pentecost! )

Happy Pentecost to you as well Phil and to everyone on the forum and all visitors

Pentecost! It is certainly the day to ponder such things.

Phil, I have also described my sensation of spiritual energy as currents of "liquid light", and it becomes so intense I'd swear my body was glowing bright as a stadium light.

Thanks Freebird. Very encouraging. I need to get a better handle on what you and Phil mean by "integration and transformation". However, I would rather reread Phil's book than dive further into Gopi Krishna's writings for now (though I have already read some on his website).

I am preparing an outline comparing symptoms of kundalini to ASP, then a summary of my own journey integrating a lifetime of sleep paralysis experiences with the Holy Spirit's work in my Christian walk. Invasive animal or insect sensations and hallucinations are reported by sufferers of ASP, with interesting parallels in accounts of ergot poisoning (chemically related to LSD).

Steve, that outline you're preparing will be most interesting, as you have an entirely different "angle" on all this than anyone I've ever read. Looking forward to your posting it sometime.

Greetings, all. I write this on the day after Pentecost, one of my favorite days in the church year. (For one thing, Hallmark hasn't gotten ahold of it yet!) We had a grand celebration in church yesterday with people wearing red, many candles, red helium ballons wafting about on the breeze, Holy Communion, and birthday cake for the Church.

Steve,I appreciate your story, your perspective, and your questions so much. I,too, am new to all this. As a devoted Christian, I need to understand this new twist in my journey in terms of the Christian faith. I am open to other religions and other symbols, but Christ's story is my story, and if this is of God, then I need to understand it through him. I just wish that western tradition dealt more with energy phenomena, and I wish we had a non-Hindu word for it! But I don't think it's synonymous with the Holy Spirit, which is personal, not a "force"
I'm going to shift back to the kundalini board where I started, since it's too hard to dialogue on two boards at the same time.
Revkah

Hi Revkah, what a God send for you to have found a spiritual camaraderie in Steve as you both entrust yourselves to the Holy Spirit in seeking answers re kundalini. You are wise in not accepting anything in blind faith. Good luck in your new journey and adventure.

May you further find something to benefit you in our extensive experiences shared on the kundalini forum, as well as on other topics. Hopefully, we can also be of some help to you and answer some of your questions.

I welcome you again, and thank you for sharing your views with us.

Blessings,
Freebird

Hi Steve,

Welcome and thanks for sharing. I read your posts here as well as your linked reflections of ASP. Regarding inner energy experiences, your writing is clear and your interpretations well presented.

Like you I am aware of inner energy and like you I have had ASP. My education on ASP came mainly from the writings of the psychologist, J. A. Cheyne and the links at his web page:

http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html

Perhaps you have seen his page. I found it less than a year ago.

I have written about my one ASP experience here at:

http://shalomplace.com/ubb/ult..._topic;f=20;t=000041

Hi Ryan,
Thanks for the links. I had already read your contribution to this forum "My breath stood still" with interest. I am also familiar with Dr Cheyne's work, enjoyed several years discussions with him as fellow members of another online forum about ASP:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ASP-L

Your narrative describes classic ASP and very similar to my own experience, especially in its positive aspects. As Christians, we seem somewhat prepared and shielded therein regarding negatives.

It's notable that both Phil and your yoga instructor initially associated your ASP descriptions with kundalini. I am not certain to what extent the ASP phenom is related to either kundalini or Holy Spirit baptism. I am working on my own analysis of that question. All three do appear to be awakened awareness of activity in nonmaterial dimensions. But as Phil noted, there are different kinds of energy. We really have no excuse as Christians for failing to seek discernment of those differences, their histories and sources, their character, modes of operation and results. "Origin determines destination," may serve as one guiding axiom (from Apostle Paul's teachings about spiritual discernment, coined by Watchman Nee).

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Steve_DE:
"It's notable that both Phil and your yoga instructor initially associated your ASP descriptions with kundalini. I am not certain to what extent the ASP phenom is related to either kundalini or Holy Spirit baptism. I am working on my own analysis of that question. All three do appear to be awakened awareness of activity in nonmaterial dimensions. But as Phil noted, there are different kinds of energy."

Hi Steve,

It is a pleasure to meet you. Thanks for the ASP link.

I'd like to comment on how I see the three phenomenon related. ASP, for me had a cessation of breath. As I see in now, (having done some breath suspension work as taught in yoga) it is that cessation of breath (as a key factor, if not the only one) that precipitated the terror of dying and rush of energy like fire. All of that is akin to baptism. In classical water baptism, there is holding breath. In baptismal theology, there are reflections on "dying" to the old person, and rising to the new creation. And in baptism of the spirit there are references to "fire."

I don't think I would have taken the kundalini connection seriously if I had not started to have spontaneous bodily movements. See:

http://shalomplace.com/ubb/ult...;t=000001;p=4#000094

I couldn't find any precedent for that in the Christian literature. As I see it now, it is part of an inter-religious dialogue. My body/soul/spirit has something like a radio antenna, connected to the environment I am in. I'm like a child learning a new language, including a new body language.

From an evangelical perspective (although I don�t think of myself as very evangelical now, that is my background) that is an opportunity to witness to people in another religious language tradition about my faith in Christ Jesus, and doing so with contextual understanding.

It might be more helpful to some if we just don't even label the process as kundalini. I hesitate to do so many times, for, as we've noted, there are a wide variety of phenomena where people experience inner light, tingly sensations, spontaneous movements, etc. Some of these need not even be associated with spiritual practice -- e.g., migraines and pinched nerves.

When people talk about these sensations in connection with contemplative practice and experiencing higher states of consciousness, that's when I begin to suspect kundalini. For such people, it sometimes is helpful to have a word for their experiences, as it gives them a "handle" to relate to and let's them know they're still on "the map," as it were. That can be something of a relief.

Hi Steve,

In your quest to find truths about the kundalini phenonema and alien influence I found this article which may be of interest to you in your spiritual discernment.

Kundalini and the Alien Force:

http://www.metahistory.org/KundaliniForce.php

Good luck with your efforts to find answers.

Well, I've done it now, for sure.

http://shalomplace.com/ubb/ult...t=000010;p=10#000232

Hi Steve,
Let me recommend looking into the Toronto Blessing given out in Churches with experiences and symptoms like and same as kundalini. I saw a few comparisons in Toronto Blessing that are also applicable to the ASP experiences.

Url did not work in forward of a site so do check out on your own the comparisons. Sorry about that.

Thank you for sharing your findings in your reseach.