What if you have an issue that you struggle with and you have anxious (sometimes obsessively anxious) thoughts about this issue and you try to pray about it and turn it over to God.....but you still can't get rid of your anxious obsessive thoughts?? When you really WANT to turn something over to God, but you can't seem to do it....well, what can you do??


Anne

Ditto w.c.'s recommendation on focusing.

It's also good to just pray your obsession--to tell God all about it, describing your feelings, concerns, and requesting grace to cope where needed. It's a good and holy thing to come to God just as we are, and if we're preoccupied, then that's the way it goes.

Now if you've prayed with your issues and done everything you can to deal with it and the preoccupation continues, maybe it would be good to undertake a discipline of some kind to take a break from it. That's where something like focusing can come it. I also like to do 10 X 10 breathing:
- inhale as deeply as possibe and count to 10, slowly;
- exhale slowly and empty your lungs; count to 10 when you get there.
- do the above 10 times.

10 X 10 breathing breaks the thought-breath cycle and give you a chance to do something different with your attention. After doing that, it's often helpful to do something with your body that calls for a bit of attention: exercise, cooking from a recipe, taking a walk and noticing what's around you. Let your attention be with your body and whatever it is you're doing. After awhile, your attention will re-focus and you'll have a better perspective on whatever it is you were preoccupied about.

Thanks Phil and w.c. for your suggestions. They are much appreciated and I will work with them.

Yes, taking a walk/exercising does seem to help, Phil.

The worst times are in the middle of the night. I wake up and start having anxious/obsessive thoughts and can't seem to get rid of them. I don't want to get out of bed....I really just want to get back to sleep, but then my mind keeps racing.

I know that this too will pass. It always does. I think it's worse because I'm on Christmas vacation and have too much unstructured time on my hands.

Thanks again for your help.

Anne

Annie--Sometimes doing something minor and mindless--like reading a magazine or doing some stray dishes--can get your body ready to go back to sleep. It won't solve the problem or give you new insight, but it can interrupt the anxious thoughts.

I've found that very little is solved at night, anyway.

Good luck,

shanti

Anne:

One other bit comes to mind. If the insomnia persists, you might check out Chinese Medicine. A licensed acupuncturist should be able to recommend an herbal formula, since insomnia appears to be effectively treated in this way (Chinese Medicine actually differentiates several kinds of insomnia). If your on any medication, take those with you so all matters of contraindication can be ruled out, and, of course, let your general practitioner know what your doing.

Anne,
Sometimes it helps to write what your anxious about on paper and writing GOD, I surrender (insert what your axious about) over to you. Than crumble it up and throw it out. Sometimes physically letting go of something helps to let it go mentally.

Hope that helps

Dear Anne,

I will pray for you that you will be delivered from any torments. I do not have any experience or training in therapy or direction like others who have well counseled you already. I can pray for you though, and will. One thing that helps me in my various forms of suffering, which can range from the symptoms you have described on across the whole smorgasbord of temptations and desolations that beset all of humanity, is to read about the heroic efforts of others who, not without the help of the Holy Spirit, transcended their distressing situations and even experienced a transformative bonanza (a la Romans 8) from their suffering, not just for them but also, redemptively, for others. I turn to St. Catherine of Sienna (her feast is my birthday, so we're tight) for intercession in such a situation as you describe. I will ask her to intercede for you.

Story-telling, itself, is transformative and can help minister the very same consolations that others have received to those who just hear the story. So, here goes, my favorite Catherine of Sienna story:

quote:

Catherine had many mystical experiences during this time. Not all of these were pleasant ones: on one occasion her cell became filled with sordid diabolical entities, causing her dreadful agonies both of a spiritual and a physical nature. She felt deserted by her "Spouse" and complained to Him: "My beloved Lord, where were you when my heart was filled with such terrible bitterness?" At this juncture Christ appeared to her and said, "I was in your heart. It was my presence which caused the sorrow and bitterness which I know you felt when the devils raged around you. And My Grace guarded your heart so that you did not give in to the temptations of the demons." During these three years she spoke only to her confessor and rarely ventured outside except to attend Mass at the neighbouring church of St. Dominic.

On Shrove Tuesday, 1366, an appearance of Jesus would change her life for evermore. It happened as she was praying ardently and scourging herself in her room in the midst of Siena's frenzied carnival revelry and celebrations. As she was begging forgiveness for the revelers' sins, Jesus appeared accompanied by His mother, St. John, St. Paul, and the psalmist David. He was pleased with her intercession for sinners. During these words, Mary took Catherine's hand and presented it to Christ Who placed a ring on her finger (visible to "For my sake", he said, "you have thrown away the vanity of the world, you have regarded the lusts of the senses as nothing and chosen Me as the only Joy of your heart. Therefore now, while all the others here in your house feast and enjoy themselves with good food and drink, I will celebrate the solemn marriage feast with your soul. I shall betroth you to Myself as I have promised." Catherine but to no one else). After her death the marks of this "wedding band" were clearly visible on her body! from Catholic Insight by Mary Hansen

My best wishes for your own betrothal, Anne. And, in the meanwhile, may you experience every consolation from our God and through your communities, both your local worshipping community and our SPlace cybercommunity.

pax and healing and transformation,
jb

re: It was my presence which caused the sorrow and bitterness which I know you felt when the devils raged around you.

This reminded me of something the Pope said in Crossing the Threshold of Hope:

quote:

Because the Pope is a man of Christ and minister of the Good News, he is a man of joy and a man of hope, a man of fundamental affirmation of the value of existence, the value of creation and of hope in the future life. Naturally, this is neither a naive joy, nor a vain hope. The joy of the victory over evil does not obfuscate - it actually intensifies - the realistic awareness of the existence of evil in the world and in every man.

He goes on to say, elsewhere:

quote:

Therefore, the joy of good and the hope of its triumph in man and in the world do not exclude fear for this good, for the disappearance of this hope. The Pope, like every Christian, must be keenly aware of the dangers to which man is subject in the world, in his temporal future, and in his final, eternal, eschatological future. The awareness of these dangers does not generate pessimism, but rather encourages the struggle for the victory of good in every realm. And it is precisely from this struggle for the victory of good in man and in the world that the need for prayer arises.

And, the very beginning of Crossing the Threshold reads:

quote:

I state right from the outset: "Be not afraid!" This is the same exhortation that resounded at the beginning of my ministry in the See of Saint Peter.
Christ addressed this invitation many times to those He met. The angel said to Mary: "Be not afraid!"

(cf. Lk 1:30). The same was said to Joseph: "Be not afraid!" (cf. Mt 1:20). Christ said the same to the apostles, to Peter, in various circumstances, and especially after His Resurrection. He kept telling them: "Be not afraid!" He sensed, in fact, that they were afraid. They were not sure if who they saw was the same Christ they had known. They were afraid when He was arrested; they were even more afraid after his Resurrection.

The words Christ uttered are repeated by the Church. And with the Church, they are repeated by the Pope. I have done so since the first homily I gave in St. Peter's Square: "Be not afraid!" These are not words said into a void. They are profoundly rooted in the Gospel. They are simply the words of Christ Himself.

Funny thing, here I was typing all of this when, suddenly, it dawned on me that the Pope likely had this put on the Internet --- here it is, indeed: Crossing the Threshold of Hope


Now, I realize there is some paradox in these writings of JPII, saying not to be afraid but then well appreciating that fear is often our portion and cup and for very good reasons! This paradox is reflective of the Gospel, the Good News, itself. I got more in touch with this when my spiritual director tasked me with meditating on the sorrowful aspects of the joyful mysteries. I produced this poem from that meditation and I am sure it will touch upon some of your deepest feelings, juxtaposed as they may be between hope and fear, joy and sorrow: The Passion of Jesus & Mary & Joseph And of John the Baptist & Elizabeth

The 2nd Vatican Council Document known as Gaudium et spes or Joys and Hopes, doesn't just deal with joy and hope. Few people know that the next words in that phrase are luctus et angor . It reads:

quote:

The joys and hopes, the grief and anguish of the people of our time, especially of those who are poor or afflicted, are the joys and hopes, the grief and anguish of the followers of Christ as well.

I thought I'd supplement the breathing exercises and prayers and story-telling and poems with a little theology, even though, when in desolation, theology is likely the last thing we need preached at us. But that's why I added this last:
And, here it is, from JPII himself:


love,
jb

quote:

Originally posted by AnneD:
[qb] What if you have an issue that you struggle with and you have anxious (sometimes obsessively anxious) thoughts about this issue and you try to pray about it and turn it over to God.....but you still can't get rid of your anxious obsessive thoughts?? When you really WANT to turn something over to God, but you can't seem to do it....well, what can you do??


Anne [/qb]

Hi Anne,
A couple of things that have helped me in the past are: Centering Prayer.. when you just let the thoughts, feelings occur and return to your "mantra", or as is called in C.P., your prayer word. Ft. Thos. Keating's books on C.P. are great. Also,I think that the more one fights an obsessive thought or feeling, the stronger a hold it can get on you. Acceptance may be the key here. Let the thoughts come.. let the feelings be felt. This is a form of release.

You say you want to turn it over to God: I am sure that you did that, and he most definately has heard your pleas, so maybe just acknowledge and affirm that God is answering your prayer. Thank Him for it.
Well, hope this makes sense and is some help to you.

Katy

More thoughts on anxiety ...

I have found it useful to use the paradigm that draws a distinction between our 1) spheres of influence 2) spheres of control and 3) spheres of interest and 4) sphere of concern. I don't know the origin or the usual application of the paradigm(s). There isn't any high nuancing required in the way I view these things, so I am pleased to stick to plain English feeling there is little peril for misunderstanding or misconstruction. Basically, all we're doing is juxtaposing what we can either control and/or influence with what concerns (or should concern us) and/or interests us. Read into the distinctions whatever you'd like between control and influence and between concerns and interests. The point is that these spheres don't perfectly overlap, that there is often far more that concerns us than that which we can influence, much less control. All sorts of psychological turmoil results. Like anxiety and fear. Anyone out there who can relate to this paradigm and come up with your own examples or anecdotes or experiences, or even definitions and nuances? This consideration, alone, could make for a thread all its own.

Next consideration. What can one do about this overlap or lack thereof? How can we enlarge our spheres of control and influence and shrink our spheres of concern and interests?

And, keep in mind, as one might could gather from Crossing the Threshold of Hope that not all fear is unexpected or unholy. Keep in mind, too, that not all fear and anxiety is neurotic. Some is existential. Example, the fear that overtakes you as a train approaches on the railroad tracks. You get up and run! Existential or neurotic? If you are on the railroad tracks, that fear is existential! If you are on the front row of a movie theater and get up and run, that would be neurotic, perhaps? Guilt, too, can be existential or neurotic. The existential type of fear or guilt can thus be existence-enhancing. The neurotic variety is existence-depriving.

Other considerations. Feel free to focus on any of these subthreads that I am tossing out.

Does acquiring realistic expectations necessarily require a downsizing of our expectations?

Can you see a difference between the Buddha saying: [i]Life is suffering [/i] and Scott Peck opening his book with: Life is difficult .

To me, there is a BIG difference between formulating realistic expectations and the act of downsizing expectations.

While Buddhism teaches compassion and this, to me, should be construed as enlarging our sphere of concern (and I'm sure this is what it would mean to the Buddha), its insistence on eliminating desire as the root of suffering is undeniably an admonition to downsize our sphere of interests. Christianity rejects this, although its history is replete with heresies such as jansenism and manicheism that took a rather dismal view of creation. Also, some forms of a Protestant dialectical imagination assume a God who is radically absent from the world, hence, the world (and all its events, objects, and people) tend to be radically different from God. [direct quote]

Many have misconstrued, too, the classical formative spirituality of John of the Cross, of Ignatius and others, as being severely ascetic in their admonitions regarding disordered appetites and inordinate desires. This is nothing more, really, than a confusion between the concepts of cardinal numbers (how many? how much?) and ordinal numbers (in what order?). Ordinacy and inordinacy require us to put first things first, in our case, the Kingdom of God, but don't require the extinction of desires. The mystics aren't talking about how much we desire or how many times, as if we were dealing with cardinal numbers; they're only reiterating the Gospel to Seek Ye First and the 1st Commandment against idolatry.

Certainly, our joys and sorrows will remain intermingled, we'll have to take up our crosses, with hope and fear ever juxtaposed, faith and doubt always a polar reality, but these theological virtues do not necessitate a lack of desire or disengagement from the earth and its goodness.

Keeping the same line of thought. Do you see how some of these recovery slogans are dealing with our sphere of interests?

1) I can have complete serenity at this very moment...if I live in denial.

2) Great expectations can lead to great disappointments.

3) Expectations are premeditated resentments.

4) Serenity comes when I stop expecting and start accepting.

I think some of these are akin to the Buddhist strategy, if they are not properly nuanced.

Look at these:

1) May your lost dreams of yesterday become the reality of your tomorrow!

2) Fear is a darkroom where negatives are developed.

3) Remember yesterday, dream of tomorrow, but live for today.

4) If you want serenity, put your Higher Power between you & your problem.

I think these are more in line with a Gospel outlook and don't require nuancing to avoid misconstruction or misapplication?

Through prayer, we can enlarge our sphere of influence. Through alignment with God's will through the Holy Spirit, our prayer can enlarge our sphere of influence to where it approaches God's sphere of control! Our sphere of concern can be totally surrendered to God without abandoning our sphere of interests, which can grow and grow and grow, on into Eternity!

Just some thoughts on additional pathways to dealing with anxiety insofar as it is neurotic and insofar as it is resulting from assymetries in our spheres of influence, control, interests and concerns.

Gotta run.

pax, amor et bonum,
jb

I don't have the knowledge of some of the other posters here, but times like you're describing always draw me to the Psalms. I remember that David, the man after God's own heart, had his share of anxiety, depression, fear..all of it. The words penned by the Psalmist always bring me comfort...especially if I recite them out loud in praise and petition to my Lord. Just a few for consideration:
(I usually start at the beginning, but that would be extreme posting)

Psa 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

Psa 18:6 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.

Psa 56:3 What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee.
Psa 56:4 In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.

One of my all time favorites...have recited it so many times,it's part of my blood, I think:

Psa 27:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?
Psa 27:2 When the wicked, even mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell.
Psa 27:3 Though an host should encamp against me, my heart shall not fear: though war should rise against me, in this will I be confident.
Psa 27:4 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple.
Psa 27:5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

God bless you and I hope you are experiencing some relief by now.
Terri

times like you're describing always draw me to the Psalms

Great, Terri. As they say, there are psalms for all occasions and they can generally be grouped as the Glad Psalms, the Sad Psalms and the Mad Psalms. JPII speaks very highly of this form of prayer. The psalms were ever on Jesus' lips, even as He was on the Cross. To be thus drawn is to imitate the Master, indeed.

pax,
jb

Anne,

Reading the Bible helps. The Gospel According to John. Chapters 12,13,14.

If you're too upset to read, just hold onto it for dear life. Its physicality will remind you
of who is there with you.

You are never alone.

Tonya

Just accept all your thoughts, anxious ones and all. Don't judge, just observe. Soon you'll see that you are not the THINKER but the OBSERVER...