It arouses my curiosity, this seeming overall trajectory of the human spirit, which seems to transformatively move most, though not all, toward compassion as life marches on.

Comments?

pax,
jb

One could say that the accumulations of pain and joys in life could cause the flow of any life toward goodness or badness just from the perspective of stimulus/response. Had more sorrows than joys in life? Well, then it would be no surprise if these people leaned toward evil. But there are those who have endured great pains yet remain good while there are those who seemingly have had all advantages and comforts and yet do such evil. And in any given day wouldn�t you say most people have as many or more pains as they do joys no matter how small those little pains are? Why should we not be driven naturally then to acts of evil? But one need only look around and see that there is a preponderance of good in this world. There is bad for sure but it is in the minority. So, as JB asks, what is going on here? Surely this must mean something more is at work than a simple reaction to pain or pleasure.

What I would tend to chock this up to, at the very least, is our awareness and creativity which allows us to imagine the pain of others even if we can never feel it directly. Once we can do so we are less likely to inflict pain on others whether we are in pain ourselves or feeling pretty good. Can it be just a coincidence that those who are renowned for being great souls have also supposedly had a higher level of awareness?

You have touched on one dynamism that I have described: When we awaken to our solidarity, compassion will ensue.

Alas, we are born in a deep slumber and awakening often takes time. It is further curious how suffering, so often, is the alarm clock, which best arouses so many of us. It is sad how, for others, it only hardens and embitters.

All in all, there is a great deal of human goodness that seems inexplicable. There is also much evil which is inconceivable. I think the world has witnessed much more of the inexplicable than of the inconceivable. I thus remain curious.

Thanks, Brad, mon ami.

pax,
jb

You have touched on one dynamism that I have described: When we awaken to our solidarity, compassion will ensue.

I have witnessed in this life the pains of others being turned inward or outward. It all goes somewhere I suppose. Why some goes in and some goes out I do not know. I do know that outward pain is a pain, at least in some cases, just begging to be held in someone else's hands and healed, even if this is quite obliquely stated most of the time. Of course our natural reaction is to be repulsed by this, offended, angered, and to return the exact opposite of that which is covertly requested.

Of course, the pain that goes inward is not necessarily gobbled up like some fire retardant foam and neutralized. It has a tendency to inflict internal damage and external damage in much the same way as the first scenario but at different times and in indirect ways. But in some ways taking the pain inward is a conscious choice to jump on the pain as one would a hand grenade in a foxhole full of buddies.

Truly amazing are those, possibly the great majority, who take their troubles and, whether through a different attitude of life or just plain decency, transform them into mere trifles or into compassions for others AND themselves.

Thank YOU, JB, bon ami (since you haven't scratched yet either).

Good thread and discussion.

There is overwhelming testimony from the mystical traditions of the world that a most benevolent and joyful spirit is the foundation of our very existence. That much is very clear.

The more we shed our illusions and attachments, the more this agape spirit emerges, especially if a corresponding via positiva is embraced.

quote:

Phil wrote:
There is overwhelming testimony from the mystical traditions of the world that a most benevolent and joyful spirit is the foundation of our very existence. That much is very clear.

Absolutely. There is nothing but "Joy", nothing but "Pure Love" in the spirit.

quote:

Phil wrote:
The more we shed our illusions and attachments, the more this agape spirit emerges

Exactly. And some of the greatest attachments we carry are precisely the entanglement between 'pain and joy', 'good and evil'. Much better to hold fast to the 'Holy Spirit' and the 'Mystery of the Trinity' because there, it exists no duality.

Ahh, good to see you here, sao!

When you come to think of it, spirituality isn't really all that difficult in principle: drop your unhappiness and happiness emerges--voila!

Only, as you noted, disentangling the Ego from all those scripts for unhappiness (some of which have been grasped as ways to happiness) is sometimes quite difficult.

Much better to hold fast to the 'Holy Spirit' and the 'Mystery of the Trinity' because there, it exists no duality.

Yes indeed! It is good to hold oneself in meditation to be formed by the great compassion and love of God with no strings attached and not ideological "if's, and's, and but's." What emerges on the "other side" of meditation is more trustworthy, as some of the splinters in the eye have been removed and we see things more clearly.

it is good to hold oneself in meditation to be formed by the great compassion and love of God

Absolutely...meditation when I eat, when I read, when I walk, when I sleep, when I talk, at all times, what else are we here to do? meditation becomes alive, and life becomes meditation.

And then...suddenly, meditation as "meditation" vanishes...everywhere you are, you see "God" in all it's glory, in every atom of existance, in every drop of rain, and pain and joy become the same, and you feel your heart "in fire" aching like never before...in the presence of so much "Love", humbled and joyful observing the beauty of God's creation.

Hello Phil, good to be here!

Good to have you here, sao! I am beginning to understand the source of your genius with X11/Unix!

It sounds like you know first-hand what the mystics have written about. While there are many who affirm this intellectually, there are so few who know it experientially.

. . . you feel your heart "in fire" aching like never before...in the presence of so much "Love", humbled and joyful observing the beauty of God's creation.

And the heart that aches is something of God's own heart, I believe: God's heart longing for God's creation to know this Love and rejoice in it . . . true Love seeking naught but that Love might be received and enjoyed.

It seems to me that all creation except the humans are open to this. Our human consciousness has gotten quite mucked up, wouldn't you say? We need to do a little re-formatting of our brains to rid ourselves of self-seeking memetic viruses of all kinds. What a task that is!

"Mystics" exist because all others 'forget' and 'fear' to ask themselves the basic questions of existance. Where do I come from? Why I am here? Who am I? Where I am going?

Shouldn't we be all 'mystics'? God gaves us the 'gift of life' and it is clear, that is what we came here to do, no other reason.

Fear not the affirmations of the intellect, they dwell still in the realm of mind and reason, no contest for the true 'madness' attained jumping in the Spirit.

It seems to me that all creation except the humans are open to this. Our human consciousness has gotten quite mucked up, wouldn't you say?

Exactly, I will say that God's creation is 'perfection' itself, as human "beings" it's our given destiny to witness and realize it consciously. To become aware of the 'Unity'' of all creation, to experience that we are 'one' in the spirit it is called true realization.

And of course, on the way, "temptation" is here, with billions of glittering diamonds, which seem real and interesting to follow and belong, some of them so subtle and elaborate, that humans long to participate in 'fun parties going on' in every beautiful diamond. And, the deeper we go into these diamonds, and we called them 'ours', the more the human consciousness get's lost, the more further away from the 'truth' we are.

And the 'greatest miracle' of all, is that God gave us 'freedom', we are "free" to choose which way to go.

"Mystics" exist because all others 'forget' and 'fear' to ask themselves the basic questions of existance. Where do I come from? Why I am here? Who am I? Where I am going?

Right! Or maybe they ask, but get some lousy information in reply.

Shouldn't we be all 'mystics'? God gaves us the 'gift of life' and it is clear, that is what we came here to do, no other reason.

Yes indeed.

Fear not the affirmations of the intellect, they dwell still in the realm of mind and reason, no contest for the true 'madness' attained jumping in the Spirit.

Say some more about this, if you will. My experience is that once one awakens in the spirit, the mind itself becomes integrated into this deeper level of consciousness and becomes servant of the spirit. Since the mind is a creation of God, it, too, is good--indeed, very good!--and so it has a vital role to play in working with spirit to help one realize the goodness, beauty and truth of God and creation.

To become aware of the 'Unity'' of all creation, to experience that we are 'one' in the spirit it is called true realization.

Yes. My experience is that this awareness is an ongoing process of discovering ever-deeper realms of unity.

And, the deeper we go into these diamonds, and we called them 'ours', the more the human consciousness get's lost, the more further away from the 'truth' we are.

Attachments of any kind--including subtle intellectual ones--are indeed the enemy of enlightenment.

And the 'greatest miracle' of all, is that God gave us 'freedom', we are "free" to choose which way to go.

Absolutely! It has become so overshadowed by delusions, and so can take some time to recover. Every little step is a victory, however, and well worth the effort.

"Say some more about this, if you will".

Phil, you said it all. And very clear indeed! Please, allow me to say more using your own words in a different order:

"Since the mind is a creation of God, it, too, is good--indeed, very good!--and so it has a vital role to play in working with spirit to help one realize the goodness, beauty and truth of God and creation".

Absolutely, the "*real*" usage of such a beautiful tool it's exactly what you explained. It's our best friend towards realization. This is 'mind - the tool' at it's best and only purpose. But...

"Once one awakens in the spirit, the mind itself becomes integrated into this deeper level of consciousness and becomes servant of the spirit".

That is the "true" mind! it melts, dissapear, dissolves, in the unity, oness of the spirit. No borders anymore, no limitations, no divisions, everything 'is' the One. The Spirit tells you then, it has "forever" been the 'only master' and that it Knows without 'knowing', it Thinks without 'thinking', it Moves without 'moving' and it Loves without 'loving'. And it has always been, it is, and will be 'eternity'. Forever and ever and then again...

Wow, sao. I had no idea you were such a mystic! Good messages!

mystic, no mystic here, just a bum, a tiny piece of dirt on "the way"

Phil, let's have a 'cup of hot cocoa break' and invite our silent friends in this thread too.