Paul,

OK. I accept your distinction. And I accept that one can grow into understanding and discerning what to pray for and how to pray.

Still, the process of growing in all those respects implies one might require some time in arrival there. Meantime, one needn't have fears of displeasing God nor harming self or others.

God doesn't require our fears of offending Him or our fears of harming ourselves and others. And He knows where we are in our spiritual journey.

And being LOVE He is patient, kind, and forbearing.

We needn't be spiritual giants the day after our confirmation. And if we are having difficulties in discerning precisely what God's will is -- well welcome to a quite large club. Meantime -- do pray. Do not hesitate. God will make all things work for good. He's a creative and clever guy.

That's sort of where I'm coming from.

Pop-pop

All,

Sometimes it seems like it would be easier if the words “If you are ready to believe..” were not in scripture.

But they are.

Sometimes it seems like it would be easier if we weren’t confronted by them. If all we needed to do was simply keep our nose clean and be sweethearts. Keeping one’s nose clean and being a sweetheart to God and towards each other is pretty much the main focus of Christians’ attention. It’s the main focus of much preaching. It certainly is sufficient in itself to keep one occupied. Overcoming concupiscence, the effects of original sin, the world the flesh and the devil, purging ourselves of the vices and growing in virtue is toil enough it seems. Plenty to keep one occupied we realize.

We can barely get beyond that, beyond all the dysfunction we see in ourselves and struggle to overcome. “I am weak flesh sold into the slavery of sin. I cannot even understand my own actions. I do not do what I want to do but what I hate.”

And so, sometimes it seems like it would be easier if the words “If you are ready to believe..” were not in scripture. But they are. There is more to scripture than keeping our noses clean and being sweethearts. God’s revelation to us calls us to all that, certainly. But the Gospel reveals more than that. There are power scriptures and others that tell of the availability of God’s love and openness to hearing our prayers.

But we feel so powerless. We feel worn out and disillusioned with the past fruits of our praying for others -- as far as we could tell anyway. I guess we could feel powerless really, because it’s true --we have no power -- of ourselves. But though we have no power of ourselves, we do have access to the power of Christ. And it is not how we feel that is to prevail – our faith is not to be based on our feelings. It is what we know; putting faith in what we know (because He who canst neither deceive nor be deceived has revealed it to us) is what is to guide us. Being transformed by the renewal of our minds (not our feelings) is the imperative.

Somedays it seems so much like being Simon and his fellow fishermen out all night and catching nothing. Catching nothing. Really. (So it seems.)

It’s hard to remain as open as was Simon when the Lord told him to give it another shot. Throw the net on the other side of the boat. All night nothing … and now a throw from just the other side? Ten feet away from the other side will make a difference?

How open to God in each moment we must be. Today’s moment is different than yesterday’s. This afternoon’s is different than this morning’s. Each moment is its own moment though.

Keeping one’s nose clean and being a sweetheart does not necessitate having to be open to faith, having to be open to God. It doesn’t necessitate being open to God in the present moment – should He be speaking to us about casting our net again, but in a slightly different place perhaps. It doesn’t require our being flexible, adaptable and open to confronting seeming failure again or our limitations again. It doesn’t require our expecting God to be there for us – believing He will be.

Keeping one’s nose clean and being a sweetheart, and praying contemplatively, centering, breathing, pious practices and spiritual reading, inner work, works of mercy (corporal or spiritual) – all good, beneficial and necessary things -- do not necessitate having to be open to faith. Oh, certainly, to some degree they do; certainly one wouldn’t have a prayer life and a sacramental life, and one wouldn’t be performing pious practices, studying and spiritual reading if one didn’t believe in God and have devotion to God. And yet, all those things while good in themselves do not require a stretching of my faith.

And so, the discomfort of the stretch is felt only whenever a power scripture arrives on our scene or when an opportunity to pray for another arises (whether via a direct request or via a perceived need).

Now, the power and prayer scriptures are there. Yes; they exist in our scriptures whether Protestant, Orthodox or Catholic. Actually, if you think about it, non-Christians and non-believers endeavor to be ethical and virtuous. Seneca the Roman philosopher and statesman wrote: “Strongest is he who has himself in his own power.” So overcoming vices and character weaknesses is not the practice of religion per se, nor does it bear witness to the revelation of Christ -- a revelation that is non self-evident. Nor does God necessarily enter the picture.

Acting morally is not a faith stretching issue – though obedience and the aspects of faith that attend acting rightly are present of course.

So, you see, sometimes it seems like it would be easier if the words “If you are ready to believe..” were not in scripture. It would be easier if the power to move mountains; if “ask and you shall receive”; and if ‘all creation awaits the revelation of the sons of God” were not scriptures.

We are not supposed to go on our feelings of course – not on past discouragements, doubt or fear, AND we are not to be ensnared by the caveats and conditions and deceits that might come to mind concerning praying for something / someone; nor by our own lack of patience and perseverance. Not feelings but the words of God are what we are to put faith in.

So then, what is to be our posture before the Lord when praying for others (interceding), praying for ourselves (petitioning), praying for healing (of ourselves or others) and perhaps even praying for a miracle? Must we have a posture even? Perhaps just a calling to mind of God’s words is more than sufficient.

Okay then, so: …whose words are the revealed scriptures?

Whose words are we supposed to believe in?

Whose will is it that we believe in His revealed words. Whose will is it that we put faith in the words of His Son?

Beyond keeping our noses clean and loving our neighbor and loving God in praise and thanksgiving Jesus desired us to know we could ask of Him. Not just that we could ask but that we should ask. His words (not ours) testify to this. It was He not we who said:
• Ask and you will receive. (Matt 7:7)
• Ask and you shall receive, that your joy may be full. (Jn 16:23,24)
• If you live in Me you may ask what you will, it will be done for you. (Jn 15:7)
• I give you My word, if you are ready to believe that you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer, it shall be done for you. (Mk 11:24)
• I solemnly assure you, the man who has faith in me will do the works I do, and greater far than these. Why? Because I go to the Father, and whatever you ask in my name I will do, so as to glorify the Father in the Son. Anything you ask me in my name I will do. (Jn 14:12-14)
• We have this confidence in God: that He hears us whenever we ask for anything according to His will. (1 Jn 5:14)
• Beloved, if our consciences have nothing to charge us with, we can be sure that God is with us and that we will receive at his hands whatever we ask. Why? Because we ARE keeping His commandments and doing what is pleasing in His sight. (1Jn 3:21,22)

We want to know upfront that our request is ‘according to His will’ and therefore that we are ‘asking in His name’. In some instances this might be because we don’t want to expend intercessory effort. There might be laziness involved not just a sensible rationale. In some instances this might be due to lack of faith and fear of failure.

Not only do we have to struggle against the above, but it seems to us that we have to struggle as well against the reality of our sometimes lack of discernment as to whether our potential request is Spirit-led – would be ‘in His name’ and ‘according to His will’. And sometimes we struggle against theories and arguments like we have had concerning harm, or motivational purity or soulishness.

But Jesus in His teachings and parables on prayers of petition and intercession made no cautions or caveats, concerning our degree of perfection, nor the fullness of purity of our intentions. He knew He was teaching to sinners.

He healed 10 lepers; was generous in His benevolence despite realizing that some might not be converted via the receipt of His generosity -- of His healing. Most, (9), remained self-focused, expressing no gratitude, evidencing no change of heart. But God is generous and causes the sun to shine on the unjust as well as the just.

Is it not His will (since He told us to petition a kind father) that He hear OUR wills and not just His own? Is love (God) simply self centered?

The parable of the woman before the corrupt judge – indeed indicates a need for perseverance in petitionary/intercessory prayer. But there is no indication that the woman’s prayer request was perfect in its motive and end – that it was ‘Spirit filled’ or God’s will. Similar is the parable in Lk:11 concerning knocking on the door in the middle of the night.

Is it not part of God’s will that we be engaged in acting in faith and in struggling in prayer (since it transforms us in the doing)? So, in some respects if we are petitioning at all we are acting ‘according to His will’. We are using our mustard seed. The seed God wants us to germinate.

How much of our hesitancy in interceding is merely our not wanting to get involved?

Nowhere in the words of the Gospel, in Christ’s teachings on petitioning in prayer does it say you must be perfect. No where does it say you must be completely pure in your motives. Only God’s grace can bring us to perfection; only His grace can bring about full purity of heart. He knows we are an in-process people. We know that as well.

Is all this some sort of perverse trick? Must one have to be a saint before one can pray ‘in His name’ or can petition ‘according to His will’. And since we can’t get there (without Him and His grace) our faith is dead in the water? and so: you lose!

Scripture says nothing of the sort!

Yes, we MAY have to pray perseveringly, scripture informs us.

But, in other regards scripture informs us that we can pray ‘in His name’ if we are keeping the commandments. That is, if we are in the state of grace (viz. that we have remained in His vine via our refraining from serious sin. We in Him; He in us.) “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and act upon it (Lk 8:21).”

We do NOT have to already be perfect; we do not have to have fullness of purity in our motives; we do not have to be other than the sinners He came to redeem and save -- the sinners we are.

Scripture informs us God wants to have us petition Him and ask for what we need. Does not the Our Father He taught us indicate praying for our needs? Christ didn’t say, “Come follow Me -- but don’t ask for anything!”

Phillipians 4:6 tells us to “Present your needs to God in every form of prayer and in petitions full of gratitude.” Matt 18:19 informs us of the power of united prayer: “Again I say to you if two of you join your voices on earth to pray for anything whatever, it shall be granted you by My Father in heaven.” AGAIN – there are no cautions or caveats regarding purity of motive and the need for perfection of the praying persons indicated in that scripture.

Christian petitionary / intercessory prayer is the power of positive asking not the power of positive thinking. It is not based on the self-projection of my thought. It is not sourced in self. It is not sourced in My power.

Answered prayer is not a consequence of one’s conjuring up sufficient will-force in some focused way that results in the three cherries of some divine slot machine – though of course our wills are involved in every act we perform and in the thoughts we assent to.

Answered prayer comes at the intersection of our petition with God’s benevolence. By its very nature prayer is relational. The Holy Spirit is relational love – the love between the Father and the Son.

The word petition implies dependence. One doesn’t petition for what one has, nor does one intercede for what one has, but for what one needs. Interceding is relational petitioning not power projection.

We can ask with confidence because Christ has given us the authority to ask. We are members of a royal priesthood. We are members of His body, since we are remaining in the vine via the keeping of His commandments and since He has covenanted Himself with us. God desires us to exercise the priesthood He has given to each of us – to petition our Father. Those petitions of course can be forcefully placed. Hebrews 5:7 informs us that: “In the days He was in the flesh he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to God”. So too, may we petition forcefully and emotionally.

But it is never us projecting us -- as New Age thought distorts things. “No one can lay hold on anything unless it is given him from on high” (Jn 3:27).

Jesus said (Jn 5:19) “I solemnly assure you the Son can not do anything by himself.” Again, in Jn 5:30 Christ reiterates: “I cannot do anything of myself.”

If He can’t – we can’t.

When it comes to our praying for something, certainly God’s will will trump our will. But we have every commission to ask and no need to fear.

*Get off your duffs. Gird up your loins. Cast off the cobwebs of doubt and what has been inactive in your faith. Stretch your faith. Have you not read my words? Are you not My people? Am I not your God?*

Methinkingly,
Pop-pop

p.s. (FYI). RCs believe that that joining in united prayer can extend to joining with our brothers and sisters in heaven as well as those on earth, because all are members of the Mystical Body of Christ. Because our spirits/souls are immortal and we are all ‘in Christ’ for all time and cannot be separated. (We could only be separated if by unrepented serious sin we separate ourselves).

There are parts of the vine that are unseen; that are below ground -- buried in the earth; that are its roots. That yet live.

RCs believe that those below ground roots, just as the leaves of the vine can nourish and support our intercession. We can unite with them intercessorily.

Pop-pop! You are on fire, brother!

I am relishing what you've shared here! It is WONDERFUL.

Thank you for your gift of encouragement, teaching, wisdom, and
inspiration!

WOW! This is the kind of ER doctor I want if I ever need one.

6 minutes long--

http://www.cbn.com/media/playe...px?s=/vod/SAF13v5_WS

From a longer version of this story, apparently this dead man saw his guardian angel, who spoke to him briefly.

http://www.cbn.com/media/playe...eyCrandall_062011_WS

Today is the feast of the Guardian Angels. I've been reading a delightful book titled The Human Soul, by Abbot Vonier. Among its subject matter is some neat discussion on Guardian Angels and angelic knowledge, angelic illumination and angelic partnership.

Lots in that book to take out onto the Pondersosa -- kind of furnishes a cowpoke with good tastin' spiritual jerky to chew on and hard tack to suck on while one lopes along and 'reckons'. Dang nice to leave the urban sprawl and its memes behind and head out into the hills for a piece.

Pop-pop (Mere Dude from the east though)