Hello everyone. I'm new to the group. Will probably be mostly a lurker and occasional conversationalist. Many of the topics I've read here so far have dealt Kundalini type experiences. I'm not sure that I have really had such. Some of the described side effects, well, hmm? maybe but not sure.

Due to my own time constraints with using the computer, I will simply post parts of a discussion off post with Philip St Romain as my intro. I'm a bit dyslexic with my fingers and typing so please forgive all the typos! smile.

INTRO:
Hi Philip Thanks for writing me back. I must admit that I was a bit apprehensive when first seeing/joining Shalom Place, not really being sure about whether it was an orthodox site or New Age. But after reading and seeing your name mentioned elsewhere I figuring you were a devout Roman Catholic (even before you confirmed it) I was rather excited.

I have been drawn by the monastic/contemplative almost from the very beginning of my journey from being a pentecostal to the catholic faith- another story. But when I began the journey I started visiting catholic and eastern orthodox monasteries and reading spiritual literature and the lives of the saints; practising the Daily Offices of Prayer, Lectio and aspects from the Ignatian Exercises, the Jesus Prayer, etc.

I have studied Uechi Ryu Karate ( a form of Southern Shaolin called Pangainoon Kung Fu) off and on since I was a teen ager. I've never advanced beyond Brown Belt due to my intermittent study due to going away for the military (US ARMY), college and seminary and more recently dropped out due to several back injuries. But Karate introduced me to two forms of Eastern Meditation- Zazen Breathing and meditation and the Sanchin Kata ( a moving meditation exercise believed to be originally taught by Bodidarma (later called Ta Mo by the Chinese). Sanchin means the three battles of the Spirit, the Mind and the Body and by years of regular practise trains one's to unite these three faculties in No Mindness as well as releasing Chi through the various Gates- very similar to the Chakras. Later, after I learned about Christian Meditation and Centering Prayer, I have sought to integrate these practises into my Christian devotional life, especially the Zazen breathing a postures.

I'm not sure that I've ever experienced a "Damascus Experience" of Chi or Kundalini, or even a charismatic experience of energy that is similar to the attributes you've shared in the various works I've read so far, i.e., the buzzing and popping, etc. I have experienced tingling sensations in different parts of my body. One charismatic pastor suggested this was because I grew up in the pentecostal.charismatic church and have been accustomed to that type of energy, so I dont notice it like others who come from outside and have more radical experiences of shaking, etc. So, I just don't know what to say about that.

The only profound experience I can recall was during my exploration of Eastern Orthodoxy, on two separate occasions, I experienced a heavy and almost physically tangible sensation of being wrapped up in what I'll call Shekinah (which means heavy glory) like a mantle. It was almost like a state of rapture or trance but awake and somewhat able to function in ordinary life, tugh difficult. My mind was caught up with God. Sin issues seemed to melt away at the very moment of coming into consciousness or conscious awareness- it was like th simply evaporated- like a science fiction force field. I could not dwell for a moment on my own normal sin temptations let alone act on them. They simply evaporated. After a few days the feeling began to slowly lift. But I only experienced such a state twice. Both experiences were quite by suprise, as I was not expecting at that stage of my journey to experience anything like that.

Since that time, I am more and more drawn to the Contemplative, and each time more strongly than before- this includes my "energy"(?) being drawn to studies in mythology, Jungian Archetypes, Dream Work and Active Imagination (though as I shared before, as a bi-vocational priest with a family I am not usually inclined to do all the work of journaling and analyzing required withany real discipline) and Christian Meditation/Centering Prayer.

More recently, due to health issues mentioned and second bout with Pneumonia (about a month ago) I started re-reading about Zen Breathing and searching for a local Zen training center. In the process I started reading about Yoga Breathing and Kundalini- which is how I encountered your site and materials.

Although I have read some things of Fr John Main and Dom Bede Griffiths, you are the first orthodox devout Catholic Christian I have encountered to speak about Kundalini and Christianity.

Although the question of whether I ve actually experienced such energy remains a question in my mind, there is no question that I have always been drawn to the idea of internal/spiritual energy Chi and Zen. I think this was largely inspired in my heart when I was a child watching David Carridine's Kung Fu and reading Zen and Taoist works, like the Lao Tzu.

The question is where do I go from here? I do feel I have hit a wall but am being drawn to somehow go past it. Not only am I alone in my Contemplative walk locally (there is a centering Prayer group about 25 miles away but their times conflict with my work schedule, etc and I do have a friend who is a priest and a professional Clinical Psychologist experienced and aware of Energy systems but he is a few hours away) but I don't have anyone locally I can turn to for regular training or guidance.

Certainly, I am exploring Yoga for health reasons to strengthen my back and its breathing techniques to strengthen my lungs; as well as spiritually, for some training in meditation that I can integrate into my Christian devotional practices- but...

IS IT OKAY OR ACCEPTABLE FOR A CHRISTIAN, (even one who has been a Christian for over 40 years with a solid Christian spiritual and theological formation), TO GO BEYOND THESE BOUNDARIES TO TRAINING UNDER A YOGI or SWAMI IN MEDITATION, POSSIBLY RECEIVING SHAKTIPAT, TO AWAKEN KUNDALINI?


On Sun, 8/31/08, Philip St. Romain <phil@shalomplace.com> wrote:

From: Philip St. Romain <phil@shalomplace.com>
Subject: Re: Christian Meditation & Yoga, etc
To: "Fr. Aidan Jerry Hix" <fraidanhix@yahoo.com>
Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008, 7:03 PM

Greetings, Fr. Aidan:
Thank you for writing. Some of your questions are easy to answer and others are complicated and would require much space. The easy ones are:- I'm a life-long Roman Catholic who attends Mass several times a week.- I do believe what the Church teaches about Christ.- Regarding Christ and other religions, I find myself most sympathetic with the inclusivist rather than exclusivist or pluralist perspective -- i.e., that Christ and His Spirit are at work in all the world religions and are the efficacious Agents of transformation wherever holiness is to be found, even among people who do not profess the Christian faith.

Perhaps you've seen some of my publications at Shalom Place. My resume' with complete works, training and experience is to be found at http://web.mac.com/philothea/iWeb/Phil/resume.html

We've had considerable discussion on the forum about kundalini and the Holy Spirit. See http://shalomplace.com/ubb/ult...t_topic;f=4;t=000010 for an extensive discussion. My opening post pretty much summarizes how I view these -- separate, but often working concurrently.
It sounds like you're strongly drawn to contemplative spirituality. Sometimes it can, indeed, be difficult to find kindred souls. There are several who frequent the forums at Shalom Place, and I am grateful to have come to know them. Have you checked to see if there is a Centering Prayer group in your area? What are the retreat centers providing?
Just a few quick responses, which I hope you will find helpful.
Peace. Phil

Hi Philip St. Romain

I joined the Shalom Place recently, as you may recall. I haven't seen any specific threads I have felt drawn to enter just yet. But I have been reading some books & articles on Christianity & Kundalini, etc., including your book CRITICAL QUESTIONS IN
CHRISTIAN CONTEMPLATIVE PRACTICE with you and James Arraj. I had a few questions but wanted to write off forum, if you don't mind.

1. What is your Christian background or affiliation? From what I've read you appear to be Roman Catholic.

2. In reading some of your works online, (which I realize are edited commentaries from others), there are many references to God, some Mary supposedly saying there are many paths to God, but very few mentions about Christ. Where do you stand on Christ's claims (and the historic catholic Christian affirmation of His claims) to be the ONLY means of Salvation and entrance to the Father?

3. And how does Christ's Claims, if you believe as I do that this is so, and these other paths & experiences such as Kundalini interface? Where is the Theological & Experiential balance?

My questions and concerns stem from my own personal movement toward the Contemplative expression of Christianity. Certainly I have had, I believe a solid theological and spiritual formation, including Bible College and seminary training; have practised devotional reading of Holy Scripture (and Lectio- although I've never really been that drawn to using my imagination to enter scene as often practised in Lectio or Jungian Active Imagination. For one thing its just too much work! LOL. I am a bi-vocational Anglican Priest with a family and just don't have the time to journal and be that introspective about dream work and active imagination), plus Daily Offices, etc.

But I have been drawn internally toward monastic and contemplative spirituality. Unfortunately, I am largely alone in my own circles, so I have done my best to integrate without "training" such practices as the Jesus Prayer, Christian Meditation and Centering Prayer. Through Martial Arts Training I was introduced to Zazen Meditation and have blended the posture and breathing techniques (as I've understood them through reading on my own) with my own Christian devotional practises.

But I feel I am hitting a wall. Partially from journeying alone without local fellowship with other like minded contemplative Christians. Most of the Christians I've shared the Contemplative with are simply not interested. Its not where the Lord has led them so far. I have contacted a local Yoga instructor about classes (both for physical reasons- Ive had several lower back injuries and reflux- and for spiritual reasons- learning techniques which may may aid me in my devotional practises).

Just curious what your comments might be in regard to all these things. Sorry if my thoughts are scattered or not expressing myself clearly. I'm trying to write quickly before going to my secular job.

Welcome, Fr. Aidan. Glad to see you decided to post your story and our exchange, here.

I will post below my reply to your inquiry above and invite others to share their responses as well:

- - -

Thank you for sharing so much of your spiritual journey with me. I
do think what you wrote would be most appropriate for the forum,
especially the Transformative Experiences one. You could start a new
topic to do so, if you'd like.

Honestly, I don't know what to tell people when asked about studying
with an Eastern teacher. I personally wouldn't do it, but I know
some who have done so with great benefit. Thomas Merton put it well
when he said that one must know what one is doing when studying
another tradition.

I wonder about that "wall" you describe. You say you feel strongly
drawn to go through. If that is the case and this draw is from the
Spirit, I think you'll be given guidance on how to do so. If it's
not of the Spirit, however, it would be willful to try to push
through and you could even do harm to yourself. Sometimes a "wall"
needs to be respected and even loved -- a situation wherein one
learns to wait on God.

Do you have a spiritual director? What you're sharing with me would
be good to process with someone in spiritual direction.

Dear Father Aiden,

How wonderful to have you join our forum! Welcome!

I appreciate your willingness to be so open about a bit of your journey. There is a brief discussion on the heavy, Glory of God, Shekinah that a few of us have experienced. I believe it's on my thread on healing and deliverance.

I was on the Eastern path quite seriously in my mid-twenties, received shaktipat several times from a few different enlightened gurus, and certainly experienced what I think may have been the very best of the whole kundalini ascension/nondual consciousness experience.

Years later, I came to Christ Jesus in a profound way and recognized the serious pitfalls connected with guru-initiations. I would strongly urge others NOT to receive shaktipat or have any energy contact with teachers who play around with the worshipping of kundalini as a goddess or the manipulation of kundalini as an impersonal energy as a tool/method to alter themselves in any way.

Sorry for the sudden stop before I explain why my strong statements, but I just noticed the time and I gotta fly to pick up my son from school...more later...if you like.

Much peace and Christ's love be with you,
Shasha

Hi Shasha. Thanks for your comments. I'll look forward to your explanations when you have time.

My exposure to "energy" has largely been in the Martial Arts- and was not taught to manipulate it, but that as you advanced in daily practise and mastery of the art, Chi would grow naturally-and in the pentecostal/charismatic expressions of Christianity- but certainly would not have looked at it in terms of Kundalini.

Kundalini is a more recent expression of energy for me. Due to health issues (lower back, acid reflux, asthma and pneumonia recently), I have looked into Yoga for strength and flexibility, and breathing techniques to strengthen my lungs, etc.

In regard to spiritality, I have been practising the Jesus Prayer (by following the breath or heart beat), Centering Prayer and Christian Meditation using a Mantra off and on for years. Yoga may be helpul in some ways, as Father John Main and Dom Bede Griffiths have integrated aspects into their own practise of
Christian devotion.

The Yoga instructor I have spoken with shared that he didnt encourage Shaktipati people who experience the bizarre effects are often out of balance somewhere. He seems to encourage one to keep ones mantra nd yoga pratice and kundalini will awaken gradually as your are ready.

The whole subject of Yoga and Kundalini are new to me. I have had some expriences of feeling energized and sleeplessness, etc., associated with my meditation practise but since I never knew about Kundalini till more recently, never associated it with that possibility.

I would've either associated such effects with too much caffeine or other natural possibility or the Holy Spirit.

Its something to think and pray about.

Dear Father Aidan,

(not Aiden, sorry for the misspelling above!)

In my experience, the willful manipulation and even, in some circumstances, inordinate interest in kundalini ascension pulls one away from the virtues and journey of character transformation to which Christ calls us. There is much that is seductive and scintillating concerning kundalini--especially in those circles in which it is revered either as an ecstatic, wish-fulfilling deity (as in the goddess Kundalini Shakti/ Kali) or as the impersonal energy of the "Formless Divine." I tasted of both of these paths, and I strongly advise folks to beware of the dangers.

The obvious danger in receiving shaktipat from those who consort with the goddess is that you are, in a sense, (naively) engaging in spiritism. SERIOUS MISTAKE. I discovered first-hand that the Bible's warning against spiritism is valid. I learned that the goddess kundalini Shakti, aka Kali., is passionately worshipped in many of the kundalini circles. Swami Muktananda, for instance, worshipped her all his life. She has appeared to Swami M. and his followers and is connected to a long lineage of people who�ve received initiation on his Siddha Yoga path. In fact, they report that everyone connected to this lineage goes on to live in Siddhaloka�a realm in the supernatural world. Swami M. popularized kundalini in the west, and in my town, back when I was in college. He is heralded as a kundalini master, and I think it is most unfortunate that people don�t know the full story of his connection with deity worship and the entangled confound between kundalini and the deity.

If one opens oneself to receiving shaktipat, as I did within Muktananda�s lineage, I believe one is open to a kind of hook or possession of the deity whom the guru has worshipped. Yes, you will receive the benefits of bliss, bright lights, glorious expansion, and the most incredible ecstasy (the siddha folks were ecstatic beings). At the same time, you are at risk for receiving the very supernatural forces (the goddess Kundalini Shakti) connected with that lineage.

Furthermore, the mantra a guru gives his initiates in order to awaken or stimulate kundalini is advertised as a �living energy,� a force which keeps one supernaturally bonded, like an invisible cord, to the guru and his/her lineage. Most initiates think this is a good thing! They want this bond desperately because they love the ecstasy and there�s a promise of �liberation� through this bond.

Even those who are naively into shaktipat for the benefits of the energy are at risk, in my opinion. The claim about mantras is, and I�m open to this as likely true, that the initiation through shakipat and strengthened by mantra repetition will virtually guarantee that the seeker will remain bonded to that guru and his deity well beyond death of the body and into the next lifetime. In the Siddha Yoga lineage, the report is this: the guru IS the manta; the mantra IS the goddess; the guru has become one with goddess�and you can too!

There�s a start of where I�m coming from.

I�ve read your posts above and I�m wondering, did you consider Phil�s question above about your concerns that you�ve hit a wall?

I don�t want to belittle your body/energy concerns, and I can appreciate your curiosity in light of your expanding knowledge about k. You could easily test the caffeine hypothesis by reduing your intake. As for the Holy Spirit being the source of the sensation, that would be wonderful! I think whether or not you�re actually experiencing kundalini is, in a sense, irrelevant. The path before you is the same, the calling is the same, to grow in holiness, to grow in Christ.

For me, energy movement in my body all comes under one powerful scripture that has been foundational in my walk with the Lord. That is Romans 12:1, to offer my body and all it�s faculties as a living sacrifice�it's a gentle shift into surrender that seems to work for me, that I surrender, I offer it all, He does the rest�



God bless you!!

Shasha & WC

Thanks for sharing. You've both given me things to think about.

As for the "wall", it deals with multiple issues, from things in my personal and family life, church issues and what is going on in the Body of Christ which effects my ministry and parish, to my own spiritual growth issues. Its a bit too much to discuss on this forum. Its just life, and things that one has to patiently walk through with God's grace.

Although there is an intellectual interet in Kundalini (certain aspects which resonate with things inside), my interest in Yoga is largely limited to health and physical fitness.

The Wall. Yes, I did consider Phil�s question above about my concerns that I�ve hit a wall? I'm just not really sure how to discuss this on an open forum. The Wall deals with some private issues. But it also deals with disillusionment with the institutional church. I don't mean my belief in the catholic church, church fathers, or the respective catholic institutions. Not exactly.

Let me try a different metaphor or story. I have always strived to push toward advancement- whether it was joining the Army, going Airborne, or going to college and seminary and preparing for the prieshood, under challenges of family anf finances, etc. Yet, as we achieve these different levels of accomplishement, we realize in that moment that the "degree" or whatever "it" was, was not "it." We are left empty and push for another accomplishment, etc.

The "wall" or "plateau" is a state of coming to the end, or the end of a boundary line of myself and my striving for accomplishments; an end of attachments/fixations/convictions to such- even to externals doings of the liturgy, daily offices, ministry, etc.

Like as a catepillar grows, his skin doesn't, and eventually outgrows and sheds his skin, only to grow a new and larger one. I feel I have come to the end of one of these skins, which needs to be shed. Or maybe to the point of entering the caccoon where transfomation occurs. Who knows. Its difficult to describe. But I feel I've come to a certain end of myself (not "THE" end but an end) and have hit a wall, a place of shedding, but its painful.

Well time is getting away. Not sure how to describe it.

w.c and shasha,

Good to be reminded of where you guys have been and what you have learned from it all. W.C is probably right about some people being more susceptibe to energies than others, but Shasha's warnings are timely in relation to Fr. Aidan's and Astronutski's enquiries. It's always best to be cautious about mixing energies with others, especially others of different faith traditions regardless of their spiritual qualities. That goes for distant shaktipat too, which I've struggled with in the past, having to resist several attempts to distantly impart energy or initiate me.

And I agree, for the most part, with Shasha on the mantras. I've recently become friendly with a Hare Krishna girl and every time we part company she says "gouranga", kind of expecting me to say it too. Of course, I'm reluctant, because the word, said in any meaningful way, has more import than just "be happy".

I've struggled with a lot of the concerns expressed on the boards recently and have come to a place where I can only commit my Kundalini to Christ. A little light yoga and or chi kung helps with a more balanced flow, but anything too strenuous or involved can be disruptive.

Blessings to Fr Aidan and Astronutski.

quote:

Originally posted by Fr Aidan:
[qb] Hello everyone. I'm new to the group. [/qb]

Welcome aboard, Fr. Aidan. A lot of the subjects discussed on Shalom Place are outside my experience, but I am interested to learn about them. I will say though that John Main and Bede Griffiths are two of my favorites. Good to have you with us.

Hello Fr. Aidan, and welcome.

I have been following this discussion too, and am learning and enjoying it.

I just want to say that if you feel attracted to the Eastern traditions, I would recommend Bede Griffiths books too. And another one that I love called "You are the Light" (Rediscovering the Eastern Jesus), by John Martin Sahajananda.

Personally, I wouldn't study under another guru.. there is plenty to learn about Christian mysticism, and from the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth.

Katy

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone and all the comments. Thanks for the book reccomendation on You are the Light-Rediscovering the Eastern Jesus by John Martin Sahajananda. I'll have to check it out soon.

I do appreciate all the warning and cautions. They are the same as I would give to others. I am a commited Christian and am not so much interested in submitting myself to an eastern guru, but in what I can learn that can be integrated into my own devotional parctises and study of the Fathers.

However, although there are many quotes from the Fathers about contemplative prayer, following one's breath into the heart or following one's heart beat, etc., there is little teaching about how to do these things. They are largely kept secret until well past the novitiate in monaseries such as Mt Athos- The Christian Tibet.

Yoga can at least teach one better posture and breathing exercises, etc., which can assist the Christian in the practise of Christian Contemplative prayer, whichever form is used, i.e., Centering Prayer, Christian Meditation, etc.

In my case, I am already seeing some improvement in my lower back. The question is whether I can be self-disciplined to continuing the practice on my own. I am only able to attend class once a week to every other week or so.

quote:

Originally posted by Fr Aidan:
[qb] The Wall. Yes, I did consider Phil�s question above about my concerns that I�ve hit a wall? I'm just not really sure how to discuss this on an open forum. The Wall deals with some private issues. But it also deals with disillusionment with the institutional church. I don't mean my belief in the catholic church, ...

The "wall" or "plateau" is a state of coming to the end, or the end of a boundary line of myself and my striving for accomplishments; an end of attachments/fixations/convictions to such- even to externals doings of the liturgy, daily offices, ministry, etc.

Like as a catepillar grows, his skin doesn't, and eventually outgrows and sheds his skin, only to grow a new and larger one. I feel I have come to the end of one of these skins, which needs to be shed. Or maybe to the point of entering the caccoon where transfomation occurs. Who knows. Its difficult to describe. But I feel I've come to a certain end of myself (not "THE" end but an end) and have hit a wall, a place of shedding, but its painful.
[/qb]

I hear you that it is difficult to talk about this "wall" in an open forum, and I'm not meaning to pry. However, I'm considering your other two recent posts on the strange sensory stuff and sexual energy, and (since I'm a psychotherapist ) I can't help but see your concerns about your personal problems and the other issue you bring up as all somehow connected. Sometimes strange sensory stuff is related to extreme stress.

Just offering this as a kind of 'food for thought,' Father Aidan, and you're certainly under no obligation to elaborate on this with us further.

Christ's peace to you and your
*entire family*!

Shasha

Hi Shasha,

Thank you for writing. Sorry its taken a bit to get back to you. I've been on a paid retreat with a friend and fellow priest up in wilderness. It was a much needed time away, even did a little stream fishing but mostly just enjoyed the scenery, fellowship, and prayer.

As for the "wall," I don't feel embarrassed to speak of it. Its just that it takes time to write and I use the hunt-n-peck typing method. Its a wonder I made it through college and seminary with all those papers!

It'll take more time than I have today but for now, I'll just say it deals with a humber of things. and Yes, stress is certainly part of it.

Part of it deals with the upheaval in the Episcopal/Anglican world over moral & theological issues. This is were the private issues I mentioned comes in- they're pastoral confidences I can't openly speak of just yet. We were part of one jurisdiction for about 10 years only to have to resign due to moral and spiritual failures of our bishop and upper clergy and cultic practises as well. Due to the smallness of our former jurisdiction and our location, we have been largely isolated as a family and mission parish for 10 years and are now adrift waiting to be recieved into another Anglican jurisdiction but due to all the law suits and boundary issues, we are in a holding pattern. This whole thing has been devastating to me and my family.

My wife has been in/out of the hospital for the last few years for several health issues and has had three surgeries in the past year and is facing the possibility of another. Its been financially difficult.

I am a bi-vocational minister, working full time for a corrections rehab, working nights and weekends; and celebrating Mass on Sundays after working all night. Often on Sundays I am up for 24-40 hours depending on pastoral obligations, etc. Its been like this for 10 years but there are no other schedules which allow me Sundays off. In addition I am a volunteer law enforcement and hospital chaplain, as time allows.

I've injured my back several times over the past two years with loss of work, etc. Recently had pneumonia/ and found out I still have it, though its better.

On one hand, I feel exhausted and burnt. Stressed. Yes. I've cut back on ministerial obligations as much as I can for now.

Its in this sense, on one hand, I've hit a wall. But its also spiritual and good. I feel God working in my life through contemplative prayer and meditation in a new and differentway than before. I am drawn to such examples as Fr Dom Bede Griffiths, etc. Its a time of shedding, an end to a former way of seeing and doing things. Its like the catepillar metaphor above.

Its a wall that is both positive and negative. The positive is that I feel I am coming to an end of myself or an end of this particualr layer of myself. I can no longer strive for something more. I am too tired for one thing.

I am drawn to contemplative prayer and meditation and just sitting at the feet of the Lord jesus in silence. Perhaps I am learning how to rest, to die to myself at a different level than before.

Although there is a lot o negative things going on in my life, I simultaneously feel something new happening.

That is the wall.

Well better go for now. Not sure if my elaboration has helped any

Fr. Aidan:

Thanks for sharing as you have over the past weeks here at Shalom. I'm taken by how you are going through this - in a context of long-time service and in married life - and what you are finding - it sounds genuine and down to the bone, so to speak. How could you do all of that, and be in a marriage, and not have to face yourself in a fundamental way (I'm guessing you might be a reader of Henri Nouwen)? And if I'm not misunderstanding you, it can be quite a relief to "hit the wall." Our wills are more ripe for consent at such a point, but oh the pain and undoing that must occur before this can happen. In my experience, I can't really have a hand in it - or it wouldn't be a real undoing, or a wall, as you say. So there is the circumstantial aspect of the wall, and the interior aspect, no?

Here is one of my favorite quotes from St. John of the Cross; perhaps you know it. The passage is freeing to me in times of aridity, where, as you say, sitting at the feet of Jesus is all that is possible. But it took quite a while for me to really trust the Divine Indwelling. To actually trust, and be known by Him within myself, is a kind of undoing itself. How could He actually be more in me than I am present to myself, and stand knowing all that I am without cringing? And yet He is. So His indwelling is always beyond and inclusive of my faculties, such that I can turn to him in aridity with faith that He dwells in my heart and just wait . . . and wait and wait for Him. And I can relate also to some of your musings re: Hindu flavorings, as in Bede Griffins. My old Hindu teacher still appears in my dreams from time to time, and was always supportive of my Christian faith. As Phil has noted somewhere else, exploring another mystical tradition after being grounded in our own can be quite enriching. So here is the quote from STJ of the Cross (The Spritual Canticle):


�What more do you want, o soul? And what else do you search for outside, when within yourself you possess your riches, delights, satisfaction and kingdom- your beloved whom you desire and seek? Desire him there, adore him there. Do not go in pursuit of him outside yourself. You will only become distracted and you won't find him, or enjoy him more than by seeking him within you.�

quote:

Originally posted by Fr Aidan:
[qb] However, although there are many quotes from the Fathers about contemplative prayer, following one's breath into the heart or following one's heart beat, etc., there is little teaching about how to do these things. They are largely kept secret until well past the novitiate in monaseries such as Mt Athos- The Christian Tibet. [/qb]

I agree that there is very little open teaching on using the rhythm of breathing to help one keep their focus on Jesus Christ during prayer. I "stumbled" across this one day during a time of being the the Lord via mediting short verses of scripture. I believe the Holy Spirit taught me to break down the short verses I was meditating on, to keep them in comfortable time with the rhythm of my breathing... this really helped me to keep my attention on the Beloved, the Lord Jesus who lives in me, as I waited on Him during my "quiet time" of being with Him. I think that we can make too much of body postures, breathing exercises, mantras, k-energy, etc, which can all distract us from the real point of all of this which is to come to the Person of Jesus Christ in spirit and in truth and just be with Him! IMO we are only changed, healed, and freed to love as we keep our focus on the beautiful Person of Jesus....

Thanks,

Caneman