In another Internet community I've participated in several discussions in which certain fundamentalists have presented God as a monster--a vengeful, spiteful creature without an ounce of love and mercy in Him, who delights in punishing the evil (but really doesn't seem to care all that much about the faithful).

These are verbally aggressive and sometimes downright abusive. They speak as if they are the only ones in possession of truth and anyone who opposes them is a) a child of satan and/or b) completely lacking in sense.

Now, I'm not slamming all Fundamentalists. I know many who are loving and rational people. But, those who spew hellfire and brimstone all too often do more harm than good. They drive people away from God, people who sorely need Him.

My question is, how do we effectively counteract such negative influences? How can we who speak quietly and peacefully be sure we are heard above the din of their inflamed rhetoric?

Peace and Love,
Bonnie

quote:

Originally posted by Bonnie:
[qb]
My question is, how do we effectively counteract such negative influences? How can we who speak quietly and peacefully be sure we are heard above the din of their inflamed rhetoric?

Peace and Love,
Bonnie[/qb]

Bonnie, there was a time when I was pretty involved with this issue, even writing a book about it.

I think it's important to counteract the lies and distortions of Fundamentalists--especially concerning their portrayal of Catholics and Catholic teaching. They actually sometimes serve a healthy function in moving one to think about one's religious beliefs more deeply.

But, on the whole, they really don't seem interested in dialoguing and learning from the other. In most cases, the best one can do is to reply to the distortions they teach, agree with them where agreements can be had, then agree to disagree on the rest--even if they don't agree to disagree.

Does this help? If not, please bring follow-up.

What do others of you think/do about this issue?

Phil

Hi Phil--

That's what I've been doing, but sometimes it just doesn't seem like enough.

On the other hand, only a short time after I posted my message I had a realization.

Several years ago I taught a Sunday School class for middle-level youth. Eventually I grew discouraged because I didn't seem to be getting anywhere with them, no matter what i tried (and I tried all sorts of things).

After I prayed about it for a while I realized my focus had been wrong. I had been looking for results, and that wasn't my department. God was in charge of the results; I was just a sower of seeds.

And I also understood that if I truly believed that God's goodness will always prevail I have to trust in that in this situation, too.

I can plant seeds of peace and agapeic love, and I can pray, trusting in God for the results.

Peace and Love,
Bonnie

quote:

Originally posted by Bonnie:
[qb]. . . I can plant seeds of peace and agapeic love, and I can pray, trusting in God for the results.
[/qb]

Well, there you go! I think that's real wisdom, and to try too hard to convince Fundamentalists especially that they are wrong often turns out ot be an exercise in futility. So we just speak the truth as we understand it, try to reply to their questions and arguments, and in the end, leave the results in God's hands.

I think, too, there's something to be said for emphazing what we have in common, which turns out to be an awful lot. This is not to say that the differences are insignificant, of course.

Phil

We may want to ask the question, "What values are the fundamentalists trying to hold on to that makes them so adamant?" Perhaps the value is the need for a steadfast faith that seems to be so threatened by today's "anything goes". I think you say something similar, Phil, when you say we may have more in common than we realize. Like you, Bonnie, I find it hard to stay patient and loving in the face of words that come across as self righteous.

Rita We may want to ask the question, "What values are the fundamentalists trying to hold on to that makes them so adamant?" Perhaps the value is the need for a steadfast faith that seems to be so threatened by today's "anything goes". I think you say something similar, Phil, when you say we may have more in common than we realize. Like you, Bonnie, I find it hard to stay patient and loving in the face of words that come across as self righteous.

There are full semester courses taught on fundamentalism on college campuses (and Phil wrote a whole book on it), so it is a daunting task to grapple with the issue you raised, Bonnie. Your reflection about not looking for results but being the sower of the seeds, to me, seems so very "right on"!

Rita, I really like the way you turned the focus to values for it helps us to begin our explorations with fundamentalists by first establishing our common ground with them.

What I would add to the discussion, by way of aiding discernment, is the notion advanced by so many good writers of the years; it is that of balance. Excuse some of my paraphrases from an increasingly hazy memory.

C.S. Lewis would use a phrase such as "wrenched out of its context in the whole and swollen to madness in its isolation" for this idea or that and I think we see that happening with values by political and religious extremists.

Scott Peck in his book People of the Lie made similar points regarding the exaggeration of one or more values to the exclusion of others.

George Will, in a recent column on stem cell research, said:

quote:

Bush's position is so measured and principled that his critics are in danger of embracing extremism. All extremists share an attribute: They elevate a single value over all others. Indeed, the defining attribute of fanaticism is an insistence on acting as though one consideration -- liberty, equality, fraternity, whatever -- trumps all others.

Extremists are, in the phrase of the 19th-century historian Jacob Burckhardt, "terrible simplifiers."

And so, the phenomenon isn't new but a very strong case can be made that there is a powerful new wave of fundamentalism washing over our shores, and there's another wave of new age spiritualism that is new also --- both waves set in motion, partially at least, by that lack of steadfastness Rita alluded to?

pax tibi,
KiKi