The common Christian view is that "eastern" meditation is emptying your mind while Christian meditation is filling your mind with Scriptures. The former is bad, according to most Christians, because being silent and just focusing on the breath, etc., and not filling it with Scripture or God thoughts, would mean that evil spirits would enter in, etc.

My question is is there a place for the Buddhist or Hindu/Vedantic type meditation that focuses on just being silent, slowing down the breath and heart rate, getting into the alpha/theta brainwave state, tapping into the right side of the brain, etc. (I'm including science here). And if so, what's the purpose if this?

Thanks.

Hi Jonathan. As you note, there are different understandings for "meditation" in different spiritual traditions, East and West, and even within a religion, including Christianity. Generally, as you note, meditation in Christianity refers to some type of engagement with the sacred word, usually scripture. In the lectio divina process, it's step 2, Meditatio, and it comes after Lectio, sacred reading. Meditation can be a reflection on the word, or imaginative engagement, or just repeating it and savoring its meaning. This in turn can lead one to step 3, Oratio, affective prayer, or even to Step 4, contemplation. So there are all kinds of ways of engaging the sacred word.
- See https://shalomplace.com/res/prayer.html
and: https://shalomplace.com/res/prayer/prayer.html

Meditation in the Eastern sense is usually about calming the mind moreso than emptying it. It's about withdrawing our attention from mental content to tune in more to the underlying non-reflecting consciousness that is always "there," even in reflective states. This type of mindfulness is similar to Christian contemplation in some ways, and as noted above, there are various ways of describing it.

Hope this helps. Follow-ups from you or anyone else are welcomed.

Thanks for your response Phil.

So this is my question. Is it OK as Christians to do a more Eastern form of meditation that involves just keeping silent and still? That is, no engagement with the Word, but of course this stillness meditation is engaging with God.

To go further, would you think there are any forms of Eastern type of meditation that you would consider dangerous or demonic?

From my understanding, there's a lot of Buddhist and Hindu/Vedantic type (and even taoist) meditation practices that do not involve "God" but is directed at enlightenment and union/non-duality and focuses on energy. So let's say we take all the "god" type talk (including incarnation and other beliefs that may be directly contradictory to Scriptures) out of Buddhism/Hinduism/Taoism , would you thus consider a lot of what's in those traditions beneficial or at least neutral (non-demonic, non-godly)?

I'm asking all this to see where you put the boundaries. What in those traditions are considered 1) good or 2) neutral or 3) demonic/dangerous/anti-Christian?

A lot of western teachings on meditation and other spirituality from these traditions seem to have taken the "god" element out of it. They just focus on the meditation, non-duality, enlightenment, etc. In a way, I guess it's to sanitize it and make it more acceptable to non-religious westerners who don't want to talk so much about "god", etc.

A lot of "new age" is like that too. No talk about "god", etc.

Now, I'm approaching this from a Christian perspective. I'm a Christian and I see Jesus as the way to the Father and Jesus is unique - not one among others.

But the way I see a lot of meditational teachings and practices from the westernized sanitized version of Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism - the version that strips away "god", reincarnation and focuses instead on enlightenment and non-dual experience and energy, etc. - I think there's a lot of good in all that that a Christian could still accept - perhaps needing to "reinterpret" certain things, but it's not so dangerous to see it all as demonic and all . Again, of course I'm not thinking about anything that relates to "god" because to me Jesus is God.

Anyway, what are your thoughts about this? Then I'll respond more to what you have to say. Thanks.

Good questions, Jonathan. We have a few threads on enlightenment and nonduality on this board that might be helpful. Some have had extensive comments, so you might look them up and see if they address some of your questions.

I think it's best for Christians to engage their faith and ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit at the beginning of a prayer time. What they do after that will depend on whether they're drawn to quiet, contemplative rest, or to engage the Word in some manner -- like lectio divina, for example.

Regarding Eastern methods, I'd still advise Christians to ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit before doing zazen, for example, or some other practice. They should also be evaluating their intent in doing these forms of prayer, and its consequences in their lives. Ideally, this would be processed regularly in spiritual direction.

I don't do any Eastern forms of prayer, but have spiritual directees who do, and they do find benefit from doing so. The boundary I encourage everyone to abide by is to keep the intentional focus in Christ, at least at the beginning of the prayer, and to avoid any kind of prayer that professes allegiance to a guru or yogi. TM, for example, often uses guru names as part of mantras.

I also discourage the practice of receiving shaktipat or energy transmission from gurus, yogis and other Eastern teachers, as this establishes an energetic connection with them that might be difficult to break. I've known people who had this and couldn't shake the sense that the guru was always connected with them, not in a diabolical way, but just unwanted and unwelcomed. An intruder in their lives!

The question of demonic influence is complicated and also deserving considerable discernment. I don't think using Eastern forms of prayer opens us to these, however, especially if we're consecrating our prayer time to the guidance of the Spirit. If we truly are open to following the leading of the Spirit, we will be led to stop doing a practice that's not good for us.

I hope this answers some of your questions. Follow-ups by you and/or others welcomed.

I've only just seen this thread, as I don't visit much these days.

Jonathan, I have wrestled with these questions too. The simple answer (the "TL;DR"!) is that I think it's okay as long as you don't break the First Commandment. No gods except God (Exodus 20:3) and no masters except Jesus (Matthew 23:8-10).

I, too, have not visited in a while.
I practice Zazen (meditation) which I learnt from a RC authorised to do so. It has nothing to do with emptying the mind but one learns not to 'hang on' to thoughts that want our attention. Instead of counting breaths, I say 'Jesus ' on the in breath and 'Christus' on the out breath. It brings a wonderful feeling of peace. I also follow guided meditations from Imagine Clarity founded by Matthieu Ricard. This 'is a guide to the essential skills for developing clarity, resilience, and compassion and lead a meaningful life' (from their site). it teaches me to love those I have difficulties with, to love ALL of God's creation to be mindful, patient and loving to all things. - I don't see any problem with all of the above but I remain anchored in God, through the Spirit and the love of Christ.

Jonathan, if you're still reading after all this time:

You asked, "Is it OK as Christians to do a more Eastern form of meditation that involves just keeping silent and still? That is, no engagement with the Word, but of course this stillness meditation is engaging with God."

Your description of being silent and still before God reminded me of St. John of the Cross's discussion of what is needed on the cusp between active contemplation and passive contemplation (I'm aware that this distinction is one drawn by later authors, not the saint himself). So silence and stillness are indeed integral parts of the Christian contemplative tradition. If you don't want to read through the works of St. John of the Cross on this subject, there is a summary in chapter 9 of Thomas Merton's Inner Experience.