Now...Jesus said that it was for good that he was going away....so that he could send the Spirit. So, did he send the spirit ONLY to the apostles at that time? And they in turn passed it on by way of the sacraments? Or did he send it to everybody? Does the spirit only dwell in baptized Christians who believe? If you don't receive the sacraments do you not receive the Holy Spirit? If the Holy Spirit produces the qualities of love, joy, peace, goodness, etc., then if somebody possesses these qualities, is that proof that the Holy Spirit dwells within them? What if they aren't a Christian but possess these qualities? If Jesus died to redeem all of mankind, then did he send the spirit to all of mankind after he ascended? Anybody want to clarify any of this for me??

Ahem . . .

Now THAT'S what I call a conversation starter!

I'll simply invoke the ad extra rule of theology which holds that where God is, the Trinity is, and where one of the Persons of the Trinity is, God is.

So, wherever there is God, there is the Holy Spirit, which means that the Holy Spirit is at work in all the world religions and indeed throughout the whole universe.

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Now before any Christians start thinking I'm minimizing the importance of Pentecost, hold on: I'm not. What Pentecost signifies is a partaking of Christ's own experience of the Trinity! Through incorporation into his Mystical Body through faith and Baptism, we are given the privilege of sharing in the Spirit which animates this Body. And so the Sacraments of the Church, prayer, virtuous acts, etc. are means by which we open ourselves to the flow of the Spirit.

I do believe that the Spirit awakens in us our deeper human postential and also gifts us by enabling a sharing in some aspects of Christ's own knowing: e.g., the gifts of the Spirit (see Is. 11: 1-5).

Let's see if this short answer gets more sharing going.

Thanks for your reply, Phil. I'm not sure if it was so much a conversation starter as much as my frustration coming out in a long line of questions. Something in a book I'm reading talked about Jesus sending his Spirit to the early Christians and that got me thinking....
Anyway, your reply was satisfactory and calmed me down for now

I'm reading "Reaching for the Invisible God" by Philip Yancey. I'm really enjoying this book. Do you remember a while back when I was frustrated with the business of what do we blame God for and what do we give him credit for? That people sometimes carelessly throw around phrases like "it was God's will" when it seems that some things couldn't POSSIBLY be God's will? We talked about tragedies, such a school shootings, and we felt certain that it WASN'T God's will when such terrible things occur. On the other hand, if I win the lottery, did God have anything to do with THAT?

Well, Philip Yancey addressed those same questions. He said that it all comes down to his basic trust in God. And that if he did trust God, then he believed that God wanted good things for him. So....he was able to feel gratitude for the good in life, but to look elsewhere when attempting to explain the bad. And he also trusted that God could somehow use the bad and make good come from it.

I thought that was a wonderful way of looking at it.

I find that once one is in the habit of being grateful it's hard to not thank God for even the smallest things. I ALWAYS thank God when I find my missing car keys. This past weekend I was frustrated with how difficult it is to carry on a phone conversation with my 18-year-old-away-at-college son. He always seems so distracted and only half paying attention, you know? So, I just keep praying for him...don't know what else to do. Yesterday he came home for a quick visit, and lo and behold he had gotten a hair cut...and had a good prospect on a part-time job. Now, I'd call that an answer to a prayer, wouldn't you?

It seems like it's just easier to credit God with ALL the good stuff, don't you think?

Anne

I just noticed that you're member #3, Anne. I wonder who #2 is? I'll have to check that out.

You're entering the befuddling area of theology called theodicy, which deals with the issue of how to reconcile the issue of evil with an all-good, all-powerful God. Thankfully, is active on the forum these days, so I'll just let him take it from here!

Seriously, I haven't read Yancey's book, but I have read [i]When Bad Things Happen to Good People," which was written by a Rabbi who lost his son to a rare degenerative disease. Very moving story and powerful reflections. I strongly recommend it to anyone interested in this issue.

I pretty much stake my life on Rm. 8, 28: "For those who love God, all things conspire unto good." That doesn't mean we won't have bad times . . . only that even what appears bad ultimately "conspires unto good." Same as with the crucifixion of Jesus, which was certainly an evil deed, but one was turned around to the greatest of goods.

Bad things happen, there is misuse of freedom by created things, evil exists, etc., and we do get "bit" by this reality at times. And yet, simultaneously, God's good outcome is effected through what appears to be a mess. That's my belief, at least.

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So your son got a haircut, eh? That would have really been news for a college guy when I was in school. I kind of thought short hair was "in" now.

Phil wrote:

<<You're entering the befuddling area of theology called theodicy, which deals with the issue of how to reconcile the issue of evil with an all-good, all-powerful God. Thankfully, is active on the forum these days, so I'll just let him take it from here!>>

Please tell me that you left a word out after the word Thankfully? Otherwise, whatever you said was totally lost on me. (My self esteem on this board is STILL suffering after that terribly confusing post from johnboy on some Dr. Joyce Brothers article that I guess really didn't even exist. Yes, I know NOW that it was a joke, but it took me waaaay too long to figure that out.)

Or is "Thankfully" some guy's screen name???

I have read some of the Rabbi's other books but not that one in particular. Have you read any of Philip Yancey's books? This is about the fourth one that I've picked up. I really like his books.

I don't know who member #2 is, either.

Short hair is still in style I think, but the "grunge" look seems to be popular, too, most especially with skateboarders. The "grunge" haircut looks like a once-short haircut that has grown out and not had any attention at all. My son kept the hair long, but got it trimmed up a bit. Anything would have been an improvement!

BTW....I called the place where I've had a private retreat the past two summers and got myself all signed up for a three-day private/directed retreat in early June. Boy, isn't that a nice thought in the middle of this cold winter?

Anne (freezing in Missouri)

Ha, that would be JB whose name got left out. OTOH, I see he also moderates this forum. You don't suppose . . .? Nah!

Good for you on that retreat. I'm sure the Holy Spirit will be there waiting for you.