Hello,

I have some thoughts/questions on the distinction between concentrative meditation techniques vs mindful meditation techniques. I looked around the forums, but didn't see a discussion that directly answered my questions.

I am a long-time Christian that has been practicing meditation for about a year now. I was first introduced to Zen meditation, and attended Zen meditation services (Rinzai) for a couple months. I then got involved with a Centering Prayer group, and practiced with them for a few months. But due to the intrusion of life, for the last 4-5 months I've had to just practice on my own.

Anyway, it seems to me (in my limited experience) that both mindful & concentrative techniques have the same goal, to quiet the mind; and in theory this would lead to the same experience. Mindful meditation, as it is presented by CP people, seems to be about ignoring thoughts/feelings/etc. IME, concentrative meditation sort of "pushes out" thoughts by forcing the mind to focus on one thing. But in the end, they both quiet the mind.

Is that a correct understanding? Or are these two methods suppose to generate different expereiences?

When I was introduced to Zen, my teacher commented that some days he tries to let thoughts "float by", and other days he just kind of concentrates harder. Later, when I learned a bit more about mediation, those comments made me think he meant that he practiced both mindful and concentrative methods.

Thanks! I apologize that I'm not sure of the best langauge to communicate my thoughts & experiences.

Greetings, Timothy. Welcome to the forum.

You might check out the discussion we had here sometime back. Be sure to follow the link in the opening thread to the web page with the conference.

The distinctions I'm accustomed to seeing are between concentrative and receptive methods. See http://www.iamshaman.com/kanna/meditation.htm for a good discussion of the differences. Centering prayer is usually considered a receptive method, while Christian meditation a la John Main (which uses a mantra) is a concentrative method. The Buddhist practice of mindfulness is more receptive; gazing at icons is more concentrative. Numerous prayer methods make use of both, and there are some forms of zen that seem to be more one than the other.

See this page for an interview with Thomas Keating, wherein he describes centering prayer as a receptive method.

Hope this helps. Let us know.

Hi Phil,

I read that thread, along with the discussion of the Apophatic tradition and most of the other topics in the Contemplative Practice section. I have only read a little bit of the material on the Arraj site, though. I also read that big thread you had on Centering Prayer about a year or so ago. While I practicing with the CP group, I saw the intro video produced by Keating's organization as well as looked over most of material of their website, so I am familiar with Keating's thoughts on the subject.

I agree with the impersonal/personal experience gap between the Eastern/Western traditions. That was the impression I got while attending the Zen services. However, I cannot say that my (limited) experience matches yours---I have actually seem an increase in the energy of my will, emotions, and cognitive insights. Whether this is a normative state or a special grace I cannot say. Neither can I say whether this will continue or fade with time. Maybe it's important to mention that meditation never became my primary spiritual activity, scripture reading has always been of equal importance.

But anyway, that still doesn't answer my question. In my practice, I seem to exercise a combination of the two techniques. I find concentrating helps block out minor thoughts/feeling/etc. but a more mindful "just let it float by" or "let it runs its course" works better with more serious thoughts that keep coming back. Also, with concentrative techniques, at a certain point you have to let go of them, or you won't be able to go deeper.

So in my own practice, it seems that both types serve the same purpose.

Sounds good to me, Timothy. One has to find what "works" and go with that. I'm not especially "married" to any particular technique myself.

Thanks for this discussion thread. I have been practicising zazen and ki raising exercizes for hisuzendo calligrapjhy for about 6 months. As a christian I was not sure how the two could sit together. For me the zazen feels more like a centring of my bodily energy whereas my more traditional christian prayer is a receiving of the holy spirits energy. I am still wondering how this all fits together. Some of my more traditional christian friends have said they think zazen is dangerous...

Rachel, what is the value you've found in zazen and ki raising exercises (kundalini?)? It sounds like you don't think it's opposed to Christian belief and practice (I agree with you).

Maybe check out some of the discussions on the kundalini forum and see if you resonate with them.