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What does it mean? How does the church understand it? Is it kundalini driven? | |||
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Phil writes -- It's my own opinion, here, but I'd say 99% of what's called slaying in the Spirit has more to do with kundalini-type dynamics than the Holy Spirit. There's no precedent for slaying in the New Testament or history of Christian spirituality. I've been in prayer meetings where this happened and went up the line to be prayed over. Everyone around me was falling, but I just felt a strong stirring of K and calmly walked away. I've also prayed with people at charismatic meetings and they were slain in the Spirit; this only happened at meeting where slayings were somewhat expected. At other meetings, nothing of the sort happened. I'm not saying the Holy Spirit isn't involved, only that's not usually how the Spirit works. ------------------------- If it's primarily kundalini-driven, I'd expect to see it in the ashram and meditation centers where kundalini ascension is the explicit goal and where direct energy transmission is rampant. I have never seen anything like being slain in the Spirit occur in the ashrams and meditation centers I've been in amongst the people around me. Furthermore, I've never experienced anything like being slain in the Spirit in those contexts. Not even close. Being hot, tingly, lights, energy, visions, ecstasy, surging up the spine, etc. but never the kind of full loss of bodily control/consciousness that occurs for me in being slain. Of course, it doesn't mean k. is not involved, but if it were a primary factor, why not see it in ashrams? I do see that there are always a percentage of folks who fake falling down because of the expectancy effect, but this doesn't negate the general phenomena (as you know). In my experience, I cannot fake fall down like I have when I've been slain. I couldn't be encouraged or discouraged from it by my surroundings; it's not even possible. It has happened to me when not one other person in the room has fallen! And the first time it happened, and I was the only person to fall, I didn't even know this thing existed! It was completely unexpected. I have wondered, even as I am laying there sometimes: what the heck is going on here? What is this for?? more later...gotta fly for now. | ||||
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Here is Wikipedia's definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slain_in_the_Spirit I wanted to add about my first experience of being slain. I was attending a healing prayer ministry meeting. I had never seen being slain at my church, Vineyard, or anywhere else. Other than a Benny Hinn conference many years ago, I'd never seen this falling down behavior. This sort of thing does not happen at Vineyard, where that prayer meeting was going on. After some worship, Paul Metler, stood up and said, "OK, everybody who is feeling some warmth in their hands (I think it was), come over to this side of the room." I moved over there. Then Paul said, "Father, I ask you to come--" And before he finished his sentence, I literally felt a force come into the room and knock me to the ground. Paul never laid hands on me. I went down crying. I often cry and/or shout and in recent years, the Spirit pushes some words out of me in tongues as I'm falling. It feel like there is some cleansing or healing going on when I cry. I had forgotton about that sense of a presence enter the room until just tonight as I'm remembering my first experiences of being slain. Then during a conference with Chris Harvey a few years ago, I recall Chris got up and said something like, "Come Lord and touch these people--" And again, I felt a presence actually file into this huge conference room. Another time, I was with MaryEllen, and she and I were "taking communion" together outside on my deck. I was saying the words that come before taking Holy communion that I had heard in Christ the King Catholic Church. Suddenly, without thinking this was possible or likely, I lost control of my upper body and half-way collapsed under a sense of power that swept over me. I just layed there like a rag-doll for a few minutes. It's just not looking like being slain is primarily a kundalini phenomena...but I'm open to other's pov. peace to you, dear ones! | ||||
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I have never been slain in the spirit. I have had folks fall down right next to me but when I receive the very same prayer nothing happens... I must be a piece of wood in the spiritual electrical circuit, because it never seems to pass through me!  I have heard two explanations for this phenomenon that seem to make sense, to me. [1] When we fall out in the Spirit it is our body's own "circuit breaker" that kicks in due to the surge of spiritual energy that is flowing in us. Our bodies can't handle that much of God flowing into us at one time and we shut down. [2] It is a gift of contemplation... God is flowing into us and is using the "slaying" as a indication that He is leading us into a more contemplative way of relating to Him. I think I have only seen folks slain in the Spirit in charismatic circles (Catholic and Pentecostal)... the usual explation is [1] above, but [2] is never discussed. Folks fall down, enjoy it, but are never instructed by leadership that God may be wanting to relate to them in a new way during prayer. So what I have seen that usually happens is that they go on seeking another experience at the next conference, etc. (same situation with the gift of tongues... folks are never instructed on how it can be used as a means to be open to the presence of God during prayer, and the gift usually goes by the way side...). I think I could go on for quite a while about this topic, but I see it as God using it to dispose us to contemplative prayer (slain in the spirit, and tongues)... something like a more enjoyable version of the "dark night of the senses"! Blessings, Caneman | ||||
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Shasha, Caneman - I've had a slain experience and felt it was very much the energy of the person who laid hands on me which passed through me. From that, and witnessing many slayings over the years I've always thought of it as something human/psychical, perhaps Kundalini (in some cases definitely Kundalini), perhaps some form of collective energy channelled through an individual. Shasha, however, makes a strong case for something actually of the Spirit. Just two short questions in response to your posts Shasha: Isn't the shaktipat practised in ashrams a similar phenomenon to slayings? Perhaps the energy is a kind of container for the teachings/practises of the individual religion involved. And also, how do you account for the lack of Biblical/traditional evidence for slayings? I'm familiar with the "latter rain" movement among charismatics but that involves an interpretation of scripture and end time theology which is very much based on scriptural literalism and, imo, doesn't quite fit the bill. Best wishes, Stephen. | ||||
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I have a whole book about being slain in the Spirit, by Francis MacNutt. Haven't looked at it in years. I'll see what he says.. I doubt if he mentions kundalini. The title of the book is "Overcome By the Spirit". I was "slain" twice.. For me it was a nice relaxing and peaceful feeling. Katy | ||||
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Those are good questions, to which I don't think there are conclusive answers. There seems to be no precedence for this in the New Testament; even at the first Pentecost, people are reported to be praising God, but no one's falling down lying on the ground, trembling. Same goes with other reports of Spirit blessings in Acts. People pray in tongues, prophesy, and are conscious. There's also nothing in the Tradition about this. Maybe it was happening and no one reported it? To my knowledge, there's no official Church teaching on this. Pentecostal/charismatic spirituality is affirmed, as are the gifts of the Spirit, but being "slain" is not considered a charism. So the meaning of the phenomenon would have to be derived from the testimony of people who've experienced it. There seem to be an abundance of people who speak of it in terms of deep rest, who experience healings, and other good fruit. That's all very good, no doubt. As for kundalini, I don't understand why it's either/or. If the chakras and kundalini are part of our metaphysical make-up (as I believe they are), then the Spirit could very well stimulate the energy centers and produce a k arousal to effects healing and rest. In some situations, it might also be the case that the highly-charged worship atmosphere with expectations of slaying produces a k arousal without the Spirit having much to do with it. There's nothing quite like a prayer meeting going on in ashrams. A wide range of k phenomena including deep trances can be found described in the yogic literature, however, so it's not out of the question. | ||||
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Good points from your post, Caneman. I agree with you that people seem quite casual about being slain and many do seem to treat it as a brief discrete event, going from one meeting to another looking for more. And it appears that leaders either assume it's too personal and private or that there is no point in using it as an opportunity for drawing folks into deeper contemplation. I just heard a story about Heidi Baker who was slain in the Spirit when she went to receive a "Toronto blessing." She was out for several days, it is reported, and when she came back, she was super-charged to spread the Gospel. Her ministry has led to 5000 churches being planted in Mozambique in a relatively short span of time. | ||||
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I was referring to shakipat when I talked about energy transmission in the above post. I've seen lots of people receive shakipat and have heard many an "experience talk" concerning people's shakipat experience. They just don't drop like lead balls. On the other hand, this "yoga science" guru I took an intensive with (who explicitly manipulates kundalini energy) did tell a story about people needing to be "carried away on stretchers" during one of his initiations. He said he learned from those experiences that he needed to "dial down" the amount of energy he released into their bodies. | ||||
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I don't know, Stephen. Phil points out that there is no Biblical basis. I bet Francis MacNutt's book on this subject has some links to the Bible. Thanks for letting me know, Katy, about his book. I'll be checking that out soon. | ||||
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You're probably right, Phil. It just makes me queasy when I hear people attributing to k. what is the work of the Holy Spirit. It's not an error I want to make. You said in the Rapture thread that being slain is not the way the Spirit usually works. But isn't it possible that God could be doing a new thing? Doesn't He do new things in history? | ||||
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Sure Shasha, God can be doing a new thing, but we look for the fruits of the Spirit and at least some echo in biblical or church history to help understand what's going on. Re. the K connection, think of it this way. We don't have a problem saying the Spirit touches the emotions to produce consolations, nor one's thoughts to bring forth insight or wisdom. You can think of the Spirit working in concert with K the same way. | ||||
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Hello, this is a great thread! What comes to my mind when thinking about a Biblical account of being slain in the spirit (don't laugh) is in the Garden when the guards came to arrest Jesus and take Him to trial. (Jn 18:5-6) When He asked them who they were seeking...and He said, "I AM He." The guards "drew back and fell to the ground." What do you make of that one? Love, dhyana | ||||
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Mys Dhyana, Welcome, I was going to post about that the other day. See Acts 26:14 When E.F, Hutton talks, people listen but Jesus can knock you right off your horse. "You canna change the laws of physics." -Scotty I'd like to see the Federation try to arrest the Lord of the Dance. shalom, spoonboy | ||||
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Hiya Mys Dhyana, The only problem with that one is that the guards came to arrest Jesus, not to receive a blessing. They may of course have gone on to believe, who knows? Also, slayings are generally seen in charismatic circles as a post-Pentecostal Baptism of the Spirit type thing, yet at that first Baptism in Acts, there is no account of disciples falling back. | ||||
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Hey guys, what about the dedication of the temple in the old testament (i think in samuel or kings) when it says the Spirit of the Lord came into the Temple and not even the Priest could stand to minister. | ||||
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From Wikipedia: --------------------------- But there is one passage in the Bible where people "fall to the ground" just by hearing the words "I am He". That is when Judas has betrayed Jesus and the soldiers come to get Jesus. This is what it says in John 18:4-6; (4) Jesus therefore, knowing all things that would come upon Him, went forward and said to them "Whom are you seeking?" (5) They answered Him, "Jesus of Nazareth." Jesus said to them "I am He." And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them. (6) Now when He said to them "I am He," they drew back and fell to the ground. (NKJV) So often when people claim that falling backwards "by the spirit" is not biblical it is simply because of lack of biblical knowledge. Instances of involuntarily falling before the Lord as the result of feeling overwhelmed by a divine presence are found in 1 Kings 8:10-11, Daniel 8:27, Daniel 10:8-11 (possibly implied), Acts 9:3-4 (also Acts 26:14) and Revelation 1:17. Both voluntary and involuntary falling before the Lord can also occur as the result of a power encounter�a person feels that the power of God is overtaking the power of a demonic force that has sought to control or oppress him or her. References to falling in the context of power encounters are found in Mark 3:11, Mark 9:20 and Luke 8:28 --------------------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slain_in_the_Spirit | ||||
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Shasha, Yes, Francis McNutt does give biblical references. Katy | ||||
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Hi dhyana, and welcome. That is correct, and I just read that passage this morning! Katy | ||||
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Shasha, Here are the scripture references that Francis McNutt gives in his book: John 18:6 Matthew 17:6 Matthew 28:4 Mark 9:20 (in this case though, it was not God's power) 1Samuel 19:23-24 Daniel 10:9 Ezekiel 1:28 Revelation 1:17 Acts 9:4 Acts 10:9-11 2 Chronicles 5:13-14 McNutt does say that it is not certain that this is the "same phenomenon" as being "slain in the Spirit". Personally, I think it is an "energy" thing. The Energy of the Holy Spirit.. too much for some people to bear and are therefore overcome by it and fall, and that it happens for different reasons and in different ways. And McNutt says some people can receive the same "blessing" and power, but don't fall. Katy | ||||
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Yes, I see what you mean. You point is well-taken. It's pretty ambiguous...the Spirit may work in concert with K, but it may not need K either, one could assume either scenario is possible at different times in our development. | ||||
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Welcome Dhyana. Glad to have you joining us. Good question...we're apparently all wondering along with you...and eager to learn.  | ||||
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Thanks so much, Katy. I had the impulse to ask you to look up what Francis posts in his book but thought that was too pushy!  I'll be looking up those scriptures. | ||||
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I very much doubt these phenomena are anything like slain in the Spirit experiences. For one thing, in most cases, the person falls on their face, not backwards. For another, they always occur after a direct encounter with Christ or an angelic being, or after a direct outpouring of God's power on to an individual, or even during heavenly visions. There are no channels here - no healers, no laying on of hands - just direct encouters with the Divine. The falling on one's face idea is important because it represents awe and submission before the face of God. Being knocked backwards by the power imparted from an individual through the laying on of hands doesn't have any Biblical precedent that I can see. Energy in the slain experiences seems, for the most part, to be channelled via another human being. This allows for all sorts of impurites and grosser energies to seep through. To me, there's a geat deal of confusion between being Baptised in the Spirit and the laying on of hands (which was for an altogether different purpose - identification, impartation of gift etc.) Out of this confusion has come this entirely new phenomenon of slaying in the Spirit. | ||||
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I have not attended any services where Slaining In The Spirit was part of the service. I was wondering if anyone could share if they lost memory during the experience or know of someone else who did? Because what you are saying Stephen could explain what I have been trying to put words to. Thanks so much Ajoy
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