Hi Fred:

I'm glad to see you're online.
I was thinking more about how you said you "feel more and more isolated." I think just about everyone feels that sometimes, so right there is an example of how that sense of isolation is an illusion: we all can relate to a sense of not relating.

And then there are people who have been through it themselves and come out on the other side of it; and they show, too, that a sense of isolation is an illusion, not reality.

In these days of confused situations
In these nights of a restless remorse
When the heart and the soul of a nation
Lay wounded and cold as a corpse
From the grave of the Innocent Adam
Comes a song bringing joy to the sad
Oh your cry has been heard and the ransom
Has been paid up in full: be ye glad

Now from your dungeon a rumor is stirring
And you have heard it again and again
Ah, but this time the cell keys, they're turning
And outside there are faces of friends
And though your body lay weary from wasting
And your eyes show the sorrow they've had
Oh the Love that your heart is now tasting
Has opened the gate: be ye glad

So be like lights on the rim of the water
Giving hope in the storm sea of night
Be a refuge amidst the slaughter
Of these fugitives in their flight
For you are timeless and part of a puzzle
You are winsome and young as a lad
And there is no disease or no struggle
That can pull you from God: be ye glad

Oh be ye glad, be ye glad
Every debt that you ever had
Has been paid up in full
By the grace of the Lord: be ye glad

Fred, those are the lyrics from memory to an older song that I know, and it's been on my mind this morning--it would be ad nauseum, but I like the song. I'll look for it on Youtube, as the words sound better if it's sung.

H

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ariel Jaffe,

Thanks Ariel,

Your name always makes me think of Jungian writer and therapist Aniela Jaffé!

Thomas Moore wrote me today:

Hi Fred,
Very sorry to hear about the deep dip. It sounds to me that some therapy would be a good idea. You can keep up your spiritual practices at the same time. I think therapy is always a good idea, and it isn’t a matter of starting and stopping. It’s ongoing in one form or another. Let me know how it goes.
Thomas
Kind man!

And I wrote back:

Dear Thomas,

Thanks for writing. I enjoy your book on the magic in every day life again and have ordered the Jesus book.
I think this therapist I spoke of in my previous message is a really fine and warm-hearted person. Yesterday I went for my fourth session and after a talk full of paradoxal soul language, he invited me to sit down with him, in front of him and leaning backwards I felt his calm breath and our hands joined on my breast. But it is very hard for me to say what I really feel, since I built this armor around my heart and lived for so long in my head, waiting for life to come as it were. I have layed so much accent on 'truth' that 'love' and 'life' have been neglected.
Primum vivere deinde philosophare!
A woman in the Netherlands http://positief-denken.blogspot.com/ (beautiful too!) sent me today http://www.waynedyer.nl/.
I don't have much affinity with New Age in general, laws of attraction and so forth, but what is your opinion? I suppose that your speaking about magic is more metaphorical than real magic or alchemy à la Castaneda and others?

PAX,
Fred

Fred, I think therapy is a very good idea, too.

Yeah, I saw a couple of months ago that an Aniela Jaffe worked with Jung.

I'm correcting a youtube link that I put in my earlier post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0XjvfecXdE

Speaking of feeling isolated, it looks like this area is due for its second big snowstorm in less than a week. I'm taking the day off to do errands.

Dear Ariel,

Yes but what therapy??? Here we go again.
Maybe I seem to have the words sometimes but in fact I don't. This impasse grows and grows...
I forgot to tell that the therapist told me that I have used religion as a means of not going to my heart. Many times I feel that non-believers are better off because they don't seem to have this inner turmoil of scupulosity, duality (God is Love but also Righteousness and so forth...), contemptus mundi...
(We are in the world but not of the world) and so forth...
Do you know the writings of padre Pio and many others along the same line? What is all this suffering about and how did they find joy in the midst of it?
Is there a contrast as with someone like Bonhoeffer, who said something like 'you don't deserve heaven if you don't embrace earthly life fully'?
Confidentially: there is a pattern of thinking I have that goes like this. If I still meet a woman/soulmate in my life, what then? There will be sex and I'll be confronted with my conscience so strongly and I'll possibly 'loose' God? Is this childish thinking? I know that I am blocking life this way but what in fact is fully living?
Same with: open your heart, but HOW???
before as a charismatic I thought that so much was possible, now I am saying with K. Rahner that God is Silent and above all a Mystery.
Did you read or see the movie about the hard life/dark night of Mother Theresa of Calcutta?
Day after day, I am confronted with this anxiety in my chest/throat/abdomen. I don't know which therapy can do more for me than what I am doping right now, but still I don't FEEL it.
And there is this chaos, I am puzzling my head off about all those different approaches: breath work, inner child healing, primal, family constellations, rebirthing, body scan, affirmations and positive thinking, yoga... I would take them all in as a kind of omnivore, while I know that this bottomlessness is my biggest problem. Therapist: 'you loose yourself in space all these possiblities, take your own position in, this playing theatre is good for you...'
The Episcopal Church USA seems to have an extraordinary and wise presiding bishop, Rev. Katherine Jeffers-Schori.
She seems to be very balanced, kind and strong. Here is one of her quotes:

Presiding Bishop Katherine Jeffers-Schori’s solution for a balanced life:

1. A rule of life.
2. A disciplined way of observing the world.
3. A ruthless examination of my family of origin.

Pray for me:
1. The serenity prayer
2. 'Effata' (to open myself)

Fred

http://kweerspirit.blogspot.co...le-spirituality.html

!!!

Hi Fred:

This is just my opinion, but I thought the kind of therapy described in the "Psychotherapy down to earth" paper posted by Shasha made a lot of sense. I know, there's so many kinds of therapy available it's confusing to me, too. "Focusing" or some derivative of it would seem important to me also, or at least a therapist who is patient enough to pay attention to how "present" I was feeling with her/him during the actual therapy session.

For me, one of the biggest difficulties in ALL my relationships--with God, people, even animals--is simply keeping my awareness spread out through my whole body--not just my head. Sorry about the horsemanship analogy (C.S. Lewis, in his book "Miracles," does compare our management of ourselves to horsemanship, so at least there's a precedent. ) but there's a saying that "If a horse cannot flee physically, he will flee mentally" from a perceived threat UNLESS he's in the presence of a trusted "shepherd" (okay, of course I mean horse-herd or herd member) who he believes has his well-being in mind.

I, physically and emotionally, have the flight responses of a horse, hence the analogy. I'm learning to manage my responses and stay more fully present. And I'd like to say something about that, but I'm going to post this now since my computer is being weird.

quote:

Yes but what therapy??? Here we go again.
Maybe I seem to have the words sometimes but in fact I don't. This impasse grows and grows...
I forgot to tell that the therapist told me that I have used religion as a means of not going to my heart. Many times I feel that non-believers are better off because they don't seem to have this inner turmoil of scupulosity, duality (God is Love but also Righteousness and so forth...), contemptus mundi...

Fred, psychotherapy can take quite awhile (years, in some cases) and it seems you're just getting started, so give it a chance. That's the place to go for family of origin issues, along with a good codependency or adult children of alcoholics type 12 Step group, if you can find one. If not, you can start one up using a book like The Twelve Steps, A Spiritual Journey, which is available at Amazon.com and other bookstores. I know of several retreat centers that use this book for support groups.

Scrupulosity is an extreme form of perfectionism, which is usually developed in dysfunctional families. Liguori Publications has a ministry called "Scrupulous Anonymous," with a newsletter, retreats, 10 commandments, etc. Check it out.
- see http://mission.liguori.org/newsletters/scrupanon.htm

Re. the duality -- there is none in God. God's mercy, justice and other apparent contradictions are all part of God's loving. That's what/who God is: LOVE. Sometimes love emphasizes justice, sometimes mercy. It depends what the beloved needs at a certain time for their growth.

Btw, it's very difficult to commit a mortal sin. You have to know an act is seriously wrong, you have to consider doing it intentionally, and, finally, you have to do it. Not much of that going on. If you're not involved in mortally sinful behavior and you're making an effort each day to open yourself to God's guidance, then relax. You're in good terms with God.

http://www.hoffmaninstitute.org/

Yet another reference!!!

Dear Fred,

Thanks for your fascinating email.

As it happens, there is a therapy which I think you might find very rewarding indeed, because it emphasizes the spiritual as well as being soundly based on child psychology.

If you google The Hoffman Process, or Hoffmaninstitute, you will be able to read up on it. I do not know if it is in Belgium but courses are run (taking a week) in many European nations.

All Best,
Oliver

Message from:
http://www.selfishcapitalist.c..._f_you_articles.html

Shasha:

I read your post about Somatization Disorder. It was helpful for me. But I wondered if there's a spectrum for that. IOW, do most people's bodies react in an almost tangible way to emotional distress?

With me, for example, if I feel uncomfortable with someone for whatever reason, I feel as if a tangible internal part backs up from the front of my body (like a wary flight animal [an animal who survives by running away first and being curious second]) to watch them from a safer distance. However, if I'm already feeling hurt by someone, my internal feeling is not just backing up, but fleeing into a mostly head-dominated awareness. And that's accompanied by a twisting/turning/closing in my chest. It reminds me of one of those revolving doors in some businesses--the ones you step into and push on to spin you into a building. As I'm with people, I may step up to the door and let myself be spun in to present myself to them (as if they are inside the building). Or if I feel suddenly hurt as I'm about to be present with them, I step in and spin all the way around--to the outside of the building! And this turning/twisting all the way around is a physical sensation between my heart and throat.

Do most other people feel this physically? I'm curious about what things feel like to other people. When one of my nieces was very young, I once spoke too abruptly to her and I could see her close herself off immediately. About ten years later, I was just slightly abrupt to her again, but she didn't show any hurt feelings. However, it was on my mind that I may have hurt her, and, feeling kind of silly, I brought up the incident to her months later. Indeed, she remembered it and appreciated my belated apology.

But I never would have guessed from her body language that I had originally hurt her. So I'm just wondering how sensitive other people are and if most people experience emotions in their bodies similarly to me, as they don't show it (and neither do I).

Also, if I were to stay "spun outside" (my room/building into which I enter to be present to people) most of the time, or chronically in flight mode, I think that turning/twisting/closing feeling could turn into a somatization disorder, maybe. ???

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ariel Jaffe,

Dear Phil,

Thanks again for elaborating on certain issues...

I hear you: Fred, psychotherapy can take quite awhile (years, in some cases) and it seems you're just getting started, so give it a chance

Do you mean that I am in good hands (except in God's Lving Hands) with this therapist I spoke of earlier on the thread: http://www.bodymindworks.be/
He is a very caring and warm person, but I am such a doubter! I always think psychotherpay is something different but is the person of the therapist not more important than the kind of therapy and as Clare said above:

When I say psychotherapy I mean psychodynamic, primal, anything which will connect your head to your body and your feelings....... exactly what I have said before. All is psychotherapy ( TRANSLATED HEALING OF THE SPIRIT)

So do you think with time and patience this will be healing? In each case, he learns me to feel (very difficult!)and this touching is very essential to me. But does this address sufficiently childhood issues, that is the question!

PAX,
Fred

Ariel,

Which paper by Shasha do you refer to???
This one:

http://psychcentral.com/news/2...-disorders/3040.html

or this one:

http://internationalpsychoanal...1/Shedlerarticle.pdf

Pax,
Fred


Fred

Fred, I was referring to the second article, but also to the "Psychotherapy down to earth" thread started by Shasha in the Health and Wellness forum here, a few weeks ago.

$3,995 a week for the
Hoffman Institute and no affiliation in Belgium!
What the ...

Fred

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:

Re. the duality -- there is none in God. God's mercy, justice and other apparent contradictions are all part of God's loving. That's what/who God is: LOVE. Sometimes love emphasizes justice, sometimes mercy. It depends what the beloved needs at a certain time for their growth.

I thought that was worth a repetition.

Fred, I thought I'd try to finish saying what has helped me, while realizing things probably won't be as simple for you through no fault of your own.

Getting back to the "If a horse can't flee physically he will flee mentally" image that makes sense to me because of my background with animals...Obviously, I can't just leave physically if I feel stressed when I'm with someone, so, to use the revolving door analogy that I just asked Shasha about, I may flee outside the building but then immediately re-enter as an actor--behind a mask, in my head (attending to that mask), not my heart and whole body, as a false self.

What helps me is this: The first time through that door, while I'm still my paradoxically vulnerable by unbreakable true self, continuously renewing a willingness to "present" the front of my body to someone, when I start to flee, I turn around and run into Jesus. There's no pain He hasn't faced down first. So, as if He said, "Whoa there...Relax and Follow ME, I've done this already" I re-enter the revolving door with my trusted shepherd/horseman, as still my true self.

And in that companionship with Him, there is a self-sustaining openness to my heart..."The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not be in need. He makes me lie down in green pastures, He leads me beside quiet waters, He restores my soul..."

From Oliver james, psychoanalyst

Yes, it does cost that but it is one of the few therapies I can almost guarantee will result in your feeling a great deal more cheerful at the end, and a great deal better equipped to understand how your childhood affected you.

It definitely goes on in mainland Europe, in France, Germany and Switzerland.

All Best,
Oliver

On 10/2/10 15:46, "DELAMEILLEURE, FREDDY" <freddy.delameilleure@jongerenwelzijn.be> wrote:


What does it cost and how do I enroll?The total cost of the Quadrinity Process, which includes tuition, lodging, food, & materials, is $3,995. A $300 discount applies if you enroll 3 weeks or more before the start of any course

And no affiliation in Belgium!

Fred

Dear Phil,

You have referred more than once to 12 step programs and AA groups.
I had this firm intention not to drink anymore but yesterday I failed again!
I am not a daily drinker but when I drink a glass mostly I cannot stop anymore.
Apart from my therapy I will go to such a group now. Please continue praying for me!
The temporary relief from pain when drinking is a very tricky thing...
For God's sake, who can explain this tension pain in my chest when everything is physically ok? Nerfs?

PAX,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by Ariel Jaffe:
Shasha:

I read your post about Somatization Disorder. It was helpful for me. But I wondered if there's a spectrum for that. IOW, do most people's bodies react in an almost tangible way to emotional distress?...Also, if I were to stay "spun outside" (my room/building into which I enter to be present to people) most of the time, or chronically in flight mode, I think that turning/twisting/closing feeling could turn into a somatization disorder, maybe. ???

Sure, there's a spectrum for Somatization disorders. It is one of a number of distinct types of somatic problems under the general class, Somatoform Disorders. Here's the wiki on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatoform_disorder


The mind-body connection is very interesting, isn't it? Where is it that we are "located"? Freud observed that the earliest awareness of ourselves/ego is a "body ego." So much translation of our emotions and conflicts goes on unconsciously. Because you, Ariel, can *speak* about emotional reactions in your body and have such a sensitivity to them, you are not likely to develop a somatic illness!
It's the deeply embedded *disavowal* of strong needs, emotions and conflicts that tends to be the culprit in forming somatic problems.

There is a wonderful French psychoanalyst named Joyce McDougall who treated severe somatic illnesses. She wrote "Theatres of the Body" detailing a few cases which she treated with success, if I'm remembering correctly.

Thanks, Shasha, for the additional information. Joyce McDougall's work seems interesting--I'm going to look into her books.

Dear friends,

Re. Body-mind connection, it strikes me that nothing is being said here about Reich, Löwen, bio-energetics, von Dürckheim. I think maybe it is because these people are not so much known in the Anglosaxon world.
Germany has a rich tradition of body work.

http://www.erfahrbarer-atem.de/

http://www.t-alexander.com/

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-eutony.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K..._Graf_D%C3%BCrckheim

http://www.duerckheim-ruette.d...alt.php?WEBYEP_DI=23

http://www.lowenfoundation.org/

and so forth...

I found out through this therapy that I am a schizoïd personality type. Löwen has described this in

http://www.amazon.com/Bioenerg...id=1265966082&sr=1-3

http://video.google.com/videop...8170454887142008583#



Fred

Negatieve reviews on Löwen's book 'Bio-energetics'!!!

1 of 3 people found the following review helpful:
Snake Oil, April 30, 2009
By Michael P. Walsh "mwalsh4007" (Jiangmen, China) - See all my reviews

This kind of nonsense is beginning, thank goodness, to die out as its practitioners do. Still, some disciples soldier on . . . Help other customers find the most helpful reviews
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2 of 3 people found the following review helpful:
Interesting, thought-provoking, but not scientific, April 13, 2009
By vincent ryan - See all my reviews

I really enjoyed this book by Alexander Lowen, as I have done with many of his other works. He has a good writing style and he has much of interest to say. But his work is overshadowed by a few crucial flaws. Firstly, his ideas are presented in isolation from other discoveries and work done by scientists on the mind-body area throughout the 20th century, so it lies almost entirely outside, and unconnected to, the scientific exploration of the area. He writes as if he is the only one studying this topic. He doesn't even reference other somatic-orientated writers, either to agree or disagree. The lack of footnotes to other researchers at the end alone bear this out. Second it must be recognised that his theories boil down to personal conviction and not scientific rigour. His theories are based exclusively on his own case studies. So the research base is immediately limited and biased. For instance, his idea that body shape correlates to personality is laid out in great detail and "supported" by his own case studies and little more. His theories are never subjected to any peer-reviewed scientific investigation. It should be recognised that it would be possible to test some of his hypotheses around personality and the body, but he has never pursued this throughout his career. And therefore much of his theory is unsubstantiated and remains little more than conjecture (i.e, the contrary could easily be the case). Apart from this, his ideas on approaches to treatment is questionable. No doubt some might be beneficial to some, but as to what parts might be the basis for addressing psychological problems can not be examined impartially at this point. In summary, Lowen is no doubt interesting and influential, but his ideas are far from laid on a firm scientific foundation. And in a world swamped by competing incompatible psychotherapies, we need and should seek just that. Help other customers find the most helpful reviews
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0 of 3 people found the following review helpful:
Ick..., October 8, 2008
By Dr. John NYC (NY) - See all my reviews

Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
Seriously grandiose author who seems to attribute a whole 'new' theory of human nature to himself, over and over again. Reminds me of one of those old professors who can't stop talking about himself when he is supposed to be teaching objective material. I am sure that whatever gems are in the book must be more readily accessible elsewhere. Help other customers find the most helpful reviews
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