Quote:
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There are none in the humanly 'down' position so low that they cannot be lifted up by entering God's order, and none in the humanly 'up' position so high that they can disregard God's point of view on their lives.

Willard Dallas "The Divine Conspiracy"
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Another quote commenting on the above:

This Great Inversion is not God's arbitrary attempt to level the playing field. Rather, it is an offer of hope to those who have been denied hope and a challenge of trust to those who have not been forced to trust.

Jan Johnson
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This last part really caught my attention. It seems to me that this IS the challenge to many of us. We have not been forced to trust. Do you think this is what Jesus meant when he said that it would be really difficult for the rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven? Difficult because, deep down, we aren't REALLY convinced that we even need God? Or else (as johnboy explained) our problem is that we want to BE God!!

I remember having a discussion with a friend a few years ago. She was talking about an acquaintance of hers who prayed when there were problems in her life. And my friend said that SHE couldn't just sit around and pray. She claimed that SHE had to be more proactive....she had to DO something in relation to her problems.

I'm certainly not saying that we don't have a responsibility to do what we can when problem situations arise. But still, don't you think that it's all too common for many of us, living our comfortable lives, to think that it's ALL up to US. We can (or we're supposed to?) fix everything. We really haven't been forced to trust, have we?

Wow....amen Anne! I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. Until we are faced with something completely beyond our control or the control of anyone else, it is sometimes hard to realize how much we have put the emphasis on "our" doing. Thanks..great post!!

God bless,
Terri

This thread has captured my attention and relates to some personal experiences.

I have lived most of my life with one foot in the middle class and the other in the under class, and I have found that the issue of control (or lack of it) over life's surprises is an equal opportunity issue. Only the particulars are different. I've known very rich people with little sense of complacency and very poor people with more of it. I've known the opposite. I've known situations in between.

However, change and conflict will always be present in this life. How we deal with it is important.

It certainly helps to be a spiritual person. In my life, this has been essential.

Sometimes being "proactive" is a spiritual task.

I have often wanted to share my spiritual experiences with my clients, but many of them were facing problems so great (some almost unimaginable to the general public) that spiritual suggestions sounded crazy. And sometimes advocating my personal spirituality has been counterproductive in a professional setting.

This is an example of a time when I must be privately spiritual on their behalf as well as my own.

I'm in transition these days and may in fact be working in different ways with people who suffer. However, one thing remains clear to me. If I can humble myself to pray, meditate, fast, etc. on behalf of all sentient beings, I am looking at the world as related, not differentiated.

And sometimes being spiritual is a proactive task.

I am thankful every day for those who work in food pantries and soup kitchens, who work for better conditions for low-income people, etc. etc. I rely on those who work to make our justice system fair, our schools better, our cities cleaner and more responsive to their citizens. Many of these "do-ers" are enacting their spirituality.

There is a delicate balance between doing--being--praying. And they all rely on trust.

In what practical ways can we foster this sense of trust? In our lives and in the lives of others?

shanti

Wow! Great reminder. Yes, we all experience our not being in control, our not being God, just in our own ways, more and less unique. Sometimes I feel so very challenged where trust is concerned. Sometimes I feel so very challenged where hope is concerned.

Lift me up. That I may know You, Lord.
Blow me down. That I may bear Your Cross.
All, that I may wear the crown You wore.

Gracias!
jb

After many years of searching as a lay person for a spirituality which honors the demands of marriage and family and still calls one to deeper prayer and holiness, I latched onto the 12 Steps of recovery groups a few years ago and found this just what was needed for me. There is in the Steps a great blend of inner work/meditation and outer work in the service of reconciliation and healing. It's continued to be a backdrop of my journey to this day.

When I began working at Heartland Center for Spirituality in 1997, I also found Dominican spirituality to speak to my spirit. Its focus on "action coming from contemplation" was a perfect fit for my spiritual bent. Without prayer and intentional work on various spiritual disciplines, the impetus to serve or work for justice is hardly to be found within me. I know it's not that way for everyone--that there really are people who find God in their action, and seem to require very little attention to prayer and meditation. That doesn't work for me, however. In doing spiritual direction with many, I can also affirm that I've never seen a situation where more attention to prayer and inner work won't actually lead, in the long run, to a greater sensitivity to the problems of the world, and a call of some kind to be of service in some way.

Thanks for starting us off on this thread, Anne. Good topic!

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
[QB]

Without prayer and intentional work on various spiritual disciplines, the impetus to serve or work for justice is hardly to be found within me. I know it's not that way for everyone--that there really are people who find God in their action, and seem to require very little attention to prayer and meditation. That doesn't work for me, however. In doing spiritual direction with many, I can also affirm that I've never seen a situation where more attention to prayer and inner work won't actually lead, in the long run, to a greater sensitivity to the problems of the world, and a call of some kind to be of service in some way.

QB]

Thanks for sharing that, Phil. I find your words comforting, and I needed to hear them. My background placed such emphasis on doing, that when a priest even mentions the word "service" my eyes glaze over and I am immediately turned off. But I can't explain this to people without coming across sounding like some kind of self-serving b______. Perhaps we need a broader definition of the word "Serving?" (with a capital S!!)

Anne

I post this a few times a year, every year, somewhere in cyberspace. This seems to be a suitable thread!

quote:

"What is this (contemplative prayer) in relation to action? Simply this. He (and she) who attempts to act and do things for others or for the world without this deepening of his own self-understanding, freedom, integrity, and capacity to love, will not have anything to give others. He will communicate to them nothing but the contagion of his own obsessions, his agressiveness, his egocentered ambitions, his delusions about ends and means, his doctrinaire prejudices and ideas."

Thomas Merton,"The Climate of Monastic Prayer"

As for doing, isn't it instructive that the Church inventories both corporal and spiritual works of mercy?

One of the greatest charisms of some forms of eremitic and cenobitic spiritualities is the prophetic witness they give to the world insofar as the Church affirms their vocations even though all some do is worship ! Follow, then, where the Spirit leads you and remain in peace in that spot where your Creator has grounded your temperament, of course open to individuation, but certainly delighting in the psychological ground where you were planted and will best bloom (That's what I say, anyway).

pax,
jb

p.s. Everytime you post here, I consider it a spiritual work of mercy! The cross you bear may be the harsh judgment of the ESFJ's who outnumber you on the planet about 13:1

Phil--I think 12-step programs (although not applicable to all situations) are excellent examples of a way of life that is "simultaneously" inward and proactive. Perhaps this is part of their enduring nature.

shanti

Anne--My guess is that more than one set of eyes glazes over when the word "service" is mentioned in church. Ditto for "capital campaign" and "thithe" and other things I have heard in my sojourn through many churches.

It's possible that large church congregations and small church congregations have a similar problem, they need to challenge people--(in the case of large churches) not to assume that someone else will take care of things, and (in the case of smaller churches) to share more communal responsibilities.

Furthermore, I think people who need help in service to humanity find themselves overwhelmed at times and reach out for support in ways that can sometimes be off-putting. There are many ways to support those in service without actually doing the service yourself. In fact, as a person who is both contemplative and engaged in service, some of my most comforting moments have been when a person offered me their understanding and goodwill or a pat on the back or a cup of tea in the midst of my service to others.

If your path takes you in direction away from highly defined service and you have discerned this, those particular words of challenge that are often said in church are not meant for you. In fact, I'm confident that you will find the words of challenge meant for you in your own heart.

If you have other gifts to give, there is no harm in saying, "my gift is [fill in the blank] and I will happily give it." Anyone who has a problem with this or feels your are a self-serving b______, well....

...may they be blessed with a new attitude and you can move on.

We can only give what we have to give.

shanti

Anne--Didn't you say that you are a teacher? Well, given how little teachers are generally paid and how often they are taken for granted, I'd say you are already doing your service.

shanti

quote:

Originally posted by shanti:
[qb]Anne--Didn't you say that you are a teacher? Well, given how little teachers are generally paid and how often they are taken for granted, I'd say you are already doing your service.

shanti[/qb]

Oh no, shanti.....if you get paid for it, then it doesn't count as "service," does it?

Anne

Anne, joking aside, I think it is service, just as the paid service rendered by firefighters is service or the paid service rendered by your priest is service.

And oh yes, I think all of us who want children to learn and can't do it the job ourselves certainly are missing the boat if we don't think it's service.

Thanks for your sevice.
shanti

quote:

Originally posted by shanti:
[qb]Anne, joking aside, I think it is service, just as the paid service rendered by firefighters is service or the paid service rendered by your priest is service.

shanti[/qb]

Thanks shanti,

Part of me believes what you say (and KNOWS you are right) but there is another part of me that has listened to too many sermons about "service" and that other part of me has been led to believe that it isn't service if 1) it's your job and you get paid to do it or 2) if you're doing it for your family.

(Rather difficult to measure up then, isn't it, if you are a wife, mother, and teacher.)

I know this is pretty warped thinking, but I really believe that this is how my pastor sees things. And I've been listening to him now for nearly ten years.

johnboy's quote:
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"What is this (contemplative prayer) in relation to action? Simply this. He (and she) who attempts to act and do things for others or for the world without this deepening of his own self-understanding, freedom, integrity, and capacity to love, will not have anything to give others. He will communicate to them nothing but the contagion of his own obsessions, his agressiveness, his egocentered ambitions, his delusions about ends and means, his doctrinaire prejudices and ideas."

Thomas Merton,"The Climate of Monastic Prayer"

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Yes, I think that says it nicely. Thanks johnboy.

Anne

Anne, I really understand your frustration. I think we all want our teachers to be inspiring, and when they seem repetitive, it starts to be annoying.

I can imagine that 10 years of listening to sermons on a subject that does not acknowledge the gifts you have would be hard to bear. And that's what I sense you are not getting from your pastor, acknowledgement and affirmation.

And perhaps the opposite is true. Perhaps not enough people who could do the kind of service he wants/needs have offered themselves, and he feels a failure in his mission. (Pure speculation on my part)

In my visits to many churches seeking knowledge of Christianity, I have noticed that pastors tend to preach for a mass audience about pressing needs as much as anything else. Sometimes that message isn't right for one particular person, but it might be something that another person in the congregation needs to hear.

When I was a child (in a family with several siblings), if one of us did something against the rules, we all got the lecture about it. Not much fun if you were not the person who needed the lecture!

Since the message of service as preached in your church is something that bothers you, might I suggest that you use that time another way? My apologies to any pastor who is reading this, but Anne, I don't see any reason why you can't use sermon time to pray for your students or your family, the people who directly benefit from your service--or pray for the pastor that he will find the people he needs to do the service he wants so that the next sermon will be one of thanksgiving.

Who knows, if you are meditating while he is preaching, good things might happen for all concerned.

Off topic a bit: Thomas Merton certainly gets around. I've heard reference to him in so many places. He has quite a wide appeal.

shanti

Hi Shanti,
You've hit on something that I did indeed do at one time (for a period of years) at my church. My time, during the sermon, was to pick a passage of scripture (usually Psalms), meditate on it and pray. I too, fell under the guilt yoke of the dreaded "S" word. You know...being on every committee, doing all that I could cram into one day, being everywhere for everyone..all to the glory of God..or so I thought. Funny thing, churches can be so caught up in "doing" that they forget about "being". The other funny thing is that once you're involved like that, but then begin stepping away because you see that you are doing out of obligation rather than love, an isolation, of sorts, begins. I think it might be because folks think you are "on fire" for the Lord, but when you stop doing so much, they perceive it as the "fire" has somehow gone. When in actuality, the opposite could be true. The "fire" has taken on a deeper meaning...a deeper place in your spiritual journey.

God was kind to me by bringing me a passage from scripture about Mary, Martha, and Jesus. Here is Jesus at their home and Martha's a busy little bee..and getting quite irritated that Mary has chosen to simply sit with Jesus. The nerve of her! But then Jesus says the most magnificent thing:

Luk 10:41 And the Lord answering, said to her: Martha, Martha, thou art careful and art troubled about many things:
Luk 10:42 But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.

This is "being". I'm reading a book that puts it well. The author says that too many times we "do" to "be"..when the truth is that we "be" in order to "do". First and foremost is that "being". For myself, it has come to the "sitting at His feet" stage. Someday in the future it might be to "busy" myself again. But this time, not from guilt .

I don't really think that pastors realize how it comes across sometimes. Maybe some of them do, but, I don't know for sure.

And yes....Thomas Merton is great. He is so completely real while being so wise at the same time. I do love his works.

Blessings,
Terri

JK wrote:
"Funny thing, churches can be so caught up in "doing" that they forget about "being". The other funny thing is that once you're involved like that, but then begin stepping away because you see that you are doing out of obligation rather than love, an isolation, of sorts, begins. I think it might be because folks think you are "on fire" for the Lord, but when you stop doing so much, they perceive it as the "fire" has somehow gone. When in actuality, the opposite could be true. The "fire" has taken on a deeper meaning...a deeper place in your spiritual journey."

Thanks for this topic, Anne. It is something I have had to struggle a lot with. There are many things that I can do, and have been asked to do , and want to do, in my parish. And last year I realized that I was negative and worn out 'doing' all this work. I had quit 'being' a contmeplative. I made a weekend retreat trying to get somepersepctive. The title of the retreat was " Gifts you have been given". I thought it was just going to be another sermon on doing more, but it was the only retreat available and the priest doing it was a contemplative and I decided to take a chance. I'm not really sure what Father was preaching, but here is what I heard. 'Give of the gifts you have been given.' I spent a lot of time with that in prayer and meditation. Here is what I decided: I have been given the gifts of teaching and of being a pray-er. That is what I must share with the community. So I got out of decorating committees, cleaning committees, organizing committees, phoning committees. I kept only those commitments that let me teach or pray; PSR substitute, Bible study classes, adult education, prayer hour in the adoration chapel. I made a commitment to make sure I attended to my needs of prayer time.

I am a classroom teacher also. And i do defintely see this as service. Whether I get paid or not is not the determining factor of whether or not I am rendering service. It is sevice if I serve. And I come to my class every day intent upon serving them and the community. It is the gift God has given me and it is what I share. Sadly, we all know teachers who are not about service but just showing up and picking up a pay check. That is the difference. 'Service' is within us and we determine if we serve or not. Others may not see it as service, or might see a job as service when we know it isn't, because it didn't come from deep within us as service. Sevice i more about 'being' than 'doing' because it is in our being that we connect with God and others.

quote:

Originally posted by Ana:

I am a classroom teacher also. And I do defintely see this as service. Whether I get paid or not is not the determining factor of whether or not I am rendering service. It is sevice if I serve. And I come to my class every day intent upon serving them and the community. It is the gift God has given me and it is what I share. QB]

Thanks shanti, Terri and Ana for sharing your thoughts. I didn't realize that so many other people struggled with this, too!

And yes, Ana, I come to the classroom with the same intention. Funny thing about teaching....once that door closes and it's just you and those kids....well...how can I say this........nobody really sees how hard you work, how patient you try to be, or even how much joy and enthusiasm you might possibly bring to a day. For me, that is serving joyfully, rather than (as Terri mentioned) out of sense of obligation. That's the kind of serving that comes from deep within, as Ana described.

Which brings me back to the Thomas Merton quote which johnboy shared. As that quote implied, I can't possibly bring the joy, enthusiasm, and even passion that I bring to my work, if I don't take much needed time to replenish myself...time which would certainly include some prayer, reflection, meditation, and blessed silence!!

Anne