Honest, WC. I'm not mocking this subject. I read through the excerpts from the book and found them fascinating�often very plausible�except for one. It's clear that at least some of those light beings were from the European Union (or subconscious).

quote:

The light beings replied, "The United States has been given the opportunity to be the teacher for the world, but much is expected of those to whom much has been given. The United States has been given more of everything than any country in the history of the world and it has failed to be generous with the gifts. If the United States continues to exploit the rest of the world by greedily consuming the world's resources, the United States will have God's blessing withdrawn. Your country will collapse economically which will result in civil chaos. Because of the greedy nature of the people, you will have people killing people for a cup of gasoline. The world will watch in horror as your country is obliterated by strife. The rest of the world will not intervene because they have been victims of your exploitation. They will welcome the annihilation of such selfish people. The United States must change immediately and become the teachers of goodness and generosity to the rest of the world. Today the United States is the primary merchant of war and the culture of violence that you export to the world. This will come to an end because you have the seeds of your own destruction within you. Either you will destroy yourselves or God will bring it to an end if there isn't a change."

Hey, who says we are free of our biases, or not clouded with some ignorance, on the other side? Or for that matter, experiencing what we do through the filters of current perception? These people haven't died, and so they weren't liberated from those conditions, just having them suspended momentarily.

When my grandmother was dying, I had several experiences which seem to shed some light, so to speak, on this. One involved being drawn so deeply inward during meditation, inside my own heart, that my awareness dilated into the presence of the heavenly kindgom. It was immeasurable, and made of a living light that was itself adoration, worship of God who dwelt at the very center. I was just standing on the outskirt of this city of light, and wouldn't have dared approached further, not out of fear in the conventional sense, but in knowing that where I was standing, and no other, was my place, and what I could tolerate. There was no place that was less belonging to this light, but it sure seemed to me that the mystery drew beings into it in varying degrees according to their intelligence and holiness.

If there are demons, then there are certainly some beings more holy and intelligent than others, but all with an opinion.

And Brad, we have to remember, don't we? that this guy, before his NDE, was a professor of art and a graduate of U.C. Berkeley. Maybe his deceased friends helping him with the life review were Berkeley graduates, too. I mean this only half in jest. The Buddhists tell us that ignorance is still to be confronted in a multitude of forms when we die.

None of the the OBEs I've had, or the mystical locutions, smack of the facile, where New Age aphorisms love to seek root with such a hollow ring. And perhaps the most incredulous stuff I hear is about the emerging oneness of the planet, as though human beings, after thousands of years of attempted civilization, will finally get it right and realize the French have had the answers all along. There doesn't even seem to be absolute oneness in heaven - just free will and a chance to keep on developing. IOW, the mind doesn't need the nervous system to be confused.

Hey, who says we are free of our biases, or not clouded with some ignorance, on the other side?

Quite true. And I must admit that the overwhelming number of things he said sounded truly outside of himself, particularly with an atheist college professor in mind.

Or for that matter, experiencing what we do through the filters of current perception?

Believe me, I'm not in debunking mode. I think what the guy said is quite remarkable and holds up well under first scrutiny�except for that one part which seemed markedly worldly�as much so as if I returned from a NDE and told y'all that in the perfect world to come that God was going to move the entire country of France to Mars so that we could finally have world peace.

What? You'd actually go for that?

I trust my first impression when analyzing certain things (NDE's now being one of them) and I like this guy's story. Surely part of one's self, one's consciousness (or sub-consciousness) is woven into the story. If it wasn't then we'd simply be talking straight to God and that's not what this guy is claiming. He's telling us what he saw through his own perceptions. I thought most of them (except for that one real clunker) didn't sound much at all like what would come from an atheist professor. You'd expect that NDE to have Carl Sagan walking onto a set and announcing how very very sorry he was about being very very wrong about it all. My NDE would somehow include Ann Coulter. I imagine she'd look good in white leather as well.

THAT this guy became a preacher is quite remarkable. That shows you that he certainly considered this more than just a bad dream. And obviously he didn't just forget it all when he got over the scare. And the "Wonderful Life" after effect that started even in the hospital room is quite remarkable. I wonder if he's still a changed man? I wonder if he still bubbles with compassion for the human race?

No, WC. I regard myself as a fairly reasonable and intelligent person. I wouldn't right this whole episode off as simply neurons firing in random patterns while starved for oxygen or as just some kind of big play in the unconscious. Trust me when I say this because you're talking to a guy who regularly has powerful dreams that can't even begin to be explained by saying those dreams are merely integrating that day's problems or something like that. Hell, I don't have THAT many problems. Although I'm not to keen about trying to induce altered states of consciousness, it's clear that there's a lot of depth and breadth to our minds and awareness. It's likely, as far as I�m concerned, that most of that stuff just has to be shut off or at least turned way down in order for human beings to function. But I think a lot of those connections and capabilities are there�always lurking, perhaps activated by stress or other needs.

It's kind of amazing, though, that this former atheist professor with probably dim views of the United States (and probably a good many other leftist views) would see Jesus, not Buddha and would want to become a Christian minister, not a Mullah or a Yoga. Despite my reservations in some regards, he did impress me otherwise.

Good points.

I'm a bit uncomfortable critiquing an NDE account for its PC'ness, but I'll go ahead, since I believe anything truly sacred has an innate sense of humor for itself and life in general:

The life review the author describes involves higher souls telling him there won't be nuclear warfare. Well, I'd go for that, but interesting that the credit goes entirely to a sort of divine puppetry, with no mention of human free will, particularly that of nuclear-vested countries trying to limit rogue countries from gaining such an advantage they'd use for more than deterrance, which, of course, isn't mentioned either, since it's all some Deus Ex Machina production.

I'm a bit uncomfortable critiquing an NDE account for its PC'ness, but I'll go ahead�

Ahh, darn. Now I feel like one of them devils in the dark who has just torn a piece of flesh out of you, WC. Seriously, I didn�t mean to turn this into too critical or cynical of a review. But you bring up an interesting point, as usual:

quote:

The life review the author describes involves higher souls telling him there won't be nuclear warfare. Well, I'd go for that, but interesting that the credit goes entirely to a sort of divine puppetry, with no mention of human free will, particularly that of nuclear-vested countries trying to limit rogue countries from gaining such an advantage they'd use for more than deterrance, which, of course, isn't mentioned either, since it's all some Deus Ex Machina production.

I find the idea of Providential meddling (err�guiding, I mean) to be aesthetically pleasing and rationally plausible. It would certainly be possible for a Creator, if there is a Creator, to influence small events here and there which then leads to BIG changes, and it would be easy enough to do so while remaining virtually undetected. Any such theory would, of course, leave itself readily open to being dismissed or ridiculed as a "fairy tail". Wishful thinking or a fairly tail it may be, but let it not be said that it is my desire to knock down science. I have no such desire. But science can only comment on repeatable and predictable events, but there�s no necessity for all of reality to conform to the methods that science is limited to.

That is to say, in short, WC, that I found the NDE account concerning nuclear weapons to be highly plausible. If the world is God�s creation and we are given free will then we might have horrible wars and these may be allowed to happen, but anything threatening our total extinction (such as comets or a full-scale nuclear war) would seem to be things that would definitely fall under the direction of Providence. I would find it highly logical that an angel would tell Mr. Storm that there would be no nuclear catastrophe and I would expect this would be at least partially due to behind-the-scenes Providential actions working through the more worldly mechanisms that you outlined. I thought also the Mr. Storm greatly increased his credibility when he mentioned that the angels (or little lights, whatever) told him that at most there might be a couple accidents with nuclear weapons. Given the number of nuclear weapons we have and how long we�re likely to have them that seems completely logical.