I'd like to ask a question that hopefully someone will be able to help me with. Phil, I'd especially like your input as you seem to have developed your own understanding of how the energy systems of the body interact with Christian spirituality.

My question pertains particularly to Catholic ordination, but more generally to all sacraments that are supposed to make a mark or somehow change a person internally, initiate them into a new state, convey "supernatural abilities," etc. What precisely is going on with this? With the ordination of a priest, for instance, what is it that happens to the soul, the mind, the energy body, etc, that allows the priest to then, simply by saying certain words, consecrate bread and wine so that they become the body and blood of Christ?

In so-called "magical" circles, there are groups of people who initiate new members by putting through specific rituals, containing specific symbolism, with a certain amount of drama and anxiety, in order to initiate them into specific types of personal changes and growth. The combination of adrenaline and symbolism is supposed to "imprint" the desired changes into the person that they end up going through certain experiences which leads to certain types of personality changes. They tend to be very elaborate and from what I've seen, are fairly effective when the person desires growth.

This, I believe, is wholly different from, for instance, a Catholic ordination of a priest, which as far as I know does not claim to make any visible changes to the person regarding his personality, his holiness, etc, only some invisible spiritual change that allows them to act sacramentally in the Church. From the Catechism, the prayer said at the consecration of priests...

Lord, holy Father, . . .
when you had appointed high priests to rule your people,
you chose other men next to them in rank and dignity
to be with them and to help them in their task. . . .
you extended the spirit of Moses to seventy wise men. . . .
You shared among the sons of Aaron
the fullness of their father's power.13

What does this mean, extended the spirit of Moses, and shared among the sons of Aaron the fullness of their father's power? What, exactly, is the Church implying that priests are given as a result of their receiving of Holy Orders? And if they are receiving something, why are we not to expect a change in the person of the priest in response to the "spirit of Moses" and the fullness of Aaron's power? If we ARE to expect a change in the person, then why is it constantly said that the holiness of the priest makes no difference in their ability to perform their sacramental duties?

I'm really hoping to get some responses to this question, as it's been on my mind lately and I haven't been able to come up with a suitable answer. Let me say, though, that I don't really doubt that proper Apostolic succession and ordination happens as is taught - I'd just like to have some idea of what's going on.

Thanks,

Paul

Paul, check out http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11279a.htm (the older version of the Catholic Encyclopedia) and go down to the section on "Effect of the Sacrament" (of Holy Orders, though there are references to Baptism as well). Maybe that will help to answer your questions.

You might also look up the phrase, in persona christi, and see if you find something helpful there.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
Paul, check out http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11279a.htm (the older version of the Catholic Encyclopedia) and go down to the section on "Effect of the Sacrament" (of Holy Orders, though there are references to Baptism as well). Maybe that will help to answer your questions.

You might also look up the phrase, in persona christi, and see if you find something helpful there.

Thanks, Phil.