Welcome solsta!

pg, Keating when asked if he practiced CP himself admitted that he is not sure what he does. I know he has done Seshins with Zen masters for many a year. He's been a Trappist since the days of silence and hand signals, and an Abbot for a couple of decades.
This is over sixty years of experience in practice and most of that in directing others. His resume is indeed most impressive. I trust his intentions and in this day of litigation I have never heard of any lawsuit against Contemplative Outreach. This surely is a miracle on the order of Moses or Isaiah.

w.c., I know you have posted those instructions several times and I thank you for your persistence. I actually tried it this time and it was...well... yummie!

Phil,

If I have the story straight, Keating had this idea and approached Pennington, who was practicing TM at the time. Menninger actually developed the method based on the Cloud of Unknowing, an apophatic method. They decided not to call it meditation and to sit in a chair to make it more accessible. It was originally intended for clergy and religious only. It developed a life of it's own after awhile. Keating noticed that people often made more progress on a retreat than monks had in years of monastic life. Exciting!

Don't know where we are going with this, but am very great-full that you brought it up.

bernie, "Whether old freind or new freind, I say not important, we are all the same, we are all human beings." -- Dalai Lama

caritas,

mm <*)))))><

Thanks, Michael, for the clarification re. the beginnings of CP. I think you underscore, here, some of the Eastern influences while pointing out the connection with The Cloud.

As there seems a kind of uneasiness with this ongoing evaluation, I think it might be profitable to acknowledge the good that comes from CP practice. No doubt, some of you who've been contributing can share your own stories, and as Michael has pointed out, there are Fr. Keating's and others' observations of the progress they've seen.

First, I think CP helps to strengthen and purify what we might call our will-to-God. By learning to assert this will and to extricate it from distracting thoughts, feelings, and images, one is doing something similar to what Step 3 of the Twelve Steps invites -- a turning our lives and will over to the care of God. This is not contemplative prayer, but it is a surrendering of oneself to God. That's very good, and we can expect good fruit to attend this practice even if contemplative graces are never given.

Second, there is growing awareness of inner dynamics. One begins to recognize subtle thoughts, movements, etc. Awareness of the false self and its games becomes more obvious, as are mixed motives of all kinds. This, too, is a good in and of itself.

Third, there is a growing sense of one's true self -- of the self we are prior to any act of consciousness. In other places, we've called this the non-reflecting aspect of consciousness. I believe it's the same thing that the East calls the witnessing self. This, too, is a good -- one pursued in the East as an end in itself. I think CP practice enables one to become more attuned to this aspect of consciousness, and this enables a growing capactity for detachment and discernment. Very good!

4. Activation of the unconscious. This one's a mixed bag, and even includes such phenomena as kundalini awakenings. I'm out of time here, so I'll return to it later.

Any other goods that some of you can identify, especially with regard to your faith and daily living?

MM:

Yes. My experience, too. And it would be a good context, it seems, for CP.

I just began Billy Graham's autobiography and he says in the third paragraph that God did it ALL. Sometimes God can look through my eyes and hear them with my ears and be fully present and available to them. This is a miracle, as michael tends to be michael's favorite subject.

I frequently stop in the middle of someone's thought
or a sentence in a book and God shows me clearly what it means. Not all of the time, but often. I am drawn toward other people and toward God, almost as if I am on autopilot. I get to see things and hear things and smell things and feel and intuit things. Sometimes I get to unknow things and rediscover old things in a new way.

I know this happens to everyone, but does everyone notice?

caritas,

mm <*))))><

I found cp after doing a intensive vipassana retreat. Being brought up in a fundamentalist, pentacostal church i experienced many wounds and control of leaders. I had spent about three years looking into eastern religions and meditation/yoga etc. I needed the personal element in my relationship to God and found that cp was very rewarding. I find that cp helps me to not have such a tight reign on myself and be more who i am without even thinking about it. It also causes me to spontaneously think of God during the day and turn to pray. Reading scripture after cp takes place a much deeper level. Self forgetfulness is another byproduct for me. I think the heart of cp is surrendering the entire self to God.

These are good, positive testimonials. I have several spiritual directees who center regularly, and they've experienced growth in faith and virtue as well. Most of them were already fairly mature in the faith when they started -- habitually recollected, I'd say. That seems to be a key ingredient.

I left off with a point about the activation of the unconscious, which is an integral part of what Fr. Keating calls the "divine therapy." If you're not sure what this means, see this interview with Fr. Keating. I observed that this was a "mixed bag," as this activation is sometimes attended by an awakening of the kundalini process that turns out to be a "tiger in the tank." A couple of my directees had to stop centering for it stimulated this process so much that they couldn't sleep and were a nervous wreck. Through the years, I've counseled with many, many CP practitioners about it.

Arraj notes:

quote:

3. In the practice of Centering Prayer there appears to be a deliberate and conscious reduction of the discursive activity of the faculties, but according to the psychology of Jung, the psyche, which embraces the conscious and unconscious, is a closed energy system. If energy disappears from one place it will appear in another. Energy, therefore, excluded from consciousness by the deliberate process of simplification that takes place in Centering Prayer, should appear in the unconscious. Would the process of Centering Prayer, therefore lead to an activation of the unconscious? Will this activation show itself, for example, in kundalini-like symptoms - that is, currents of energy, the appearance of lights and sounds, etc. - or show itself in the three temptations described by St. John of the Cross, that is, scrupulosity, sexual obsessions and temptations to blasphemy, or in other manifestations? How does the Centering Prayer movement deal with these kinds of things when they happen?

I think they deal with these issues better now than at first. But his point about CP itself leading to an activation of the unconscious is well-taken, I think, and that it's this practice that is the catalyst for the unloading that begins to happen -- a process Fr. Keating calls the "divine therapy."

quote:

4. The Centering Prayer movement talks about the Divine therapist, that is, God as therapist, and the unloading of the unconscious, and thus leaves the impression that certain psychological effects are an integral part of the Centering Prayer process. But is such psychological work really a direct part of the life of prayer? Couldn't something like the unloading of the unconscious be an effect due to the exclusion of conscious psychic energy as described in the previous question? Shouldn't we make a clear distinction between the goal of psychological work and the goal of spiritual work? In short, isn't it possible that some of the psychological dimension of Centering Prayer practice is actually "provoked" by the Centering Prayer method, itself?

I think these are good observations, and that the answer to the last question is "yes."

What starts to happen with this activation is that defenses are loosened and repressed material begins to emerge. Fr. Keating has called this "unloading," and he views it in terms of the Dark Night of the Senses and even the Night of the Spirit. This is a new way of looking at what John of the Cross was describing, especially since it is the practice of CP that is plunging one into the Nights rather than the onset of contemplative graces (unless one equivocates CP with such, which is a mistake, imo). So an adjustment between the unconscious' relation to consciousness begins to develop, driven by CP practice, and, presumably, oriented to support the central intention expressed in CP -- surrender to God.

Two parts of this bother me. One is the assumption -- often expressed -- that it is the Holy Spirit that is driving the unloading. I don't think that's correct; I think CP practice is doing so. The other is that what is being unloaded are "blocks" that are an obstacle to divine union; I have deep concerns about that one.

As I've already addressed the first concern, I'll take up the second, as I've counseled with many and even seen it expressed on this board that one feels their inner blocks are preventing them from experiencing union with God. First of all, that's absolutely false; union with God comes through grace, and our inner blocks are no problem for God. We've all been touched by grace when we were dirty/slimy with sin and filled with yuck! These blocks might impede a deeper, ongoing experience life and might be holding energies that throw up "distractions;" yes, of course. But we do not have to work through all of this to be in union with God. In fact, if we're not careful, we can become too focused on removing inner blocks instead of looking to God.

Divine therapy itself is a dubious concept, as there are other explanations to account for how the unconscious is working, the most obvious being it own innate striving for harmony with the conscious mind. CP changes the dynamics of conscious - unconscious relations, and the adjustment of the unconscious to find a new relation doesn't require any intervention of the Holy Spirit. It's in our human nature -- this dynamism to wholeness and integration. Neither does the unloading require the guidance of the Holy Spirit; the unconscious itself can be regulating this adjustment. I'm not denying that the Holy Spirit CAN be involved, but am simply saying that that need not be the case.

Again, please do not hear this as a personal criticism of anyone. We've noted the good fruit from CP, but we also need to note that, in the name of the Divine Therapy, people have undergone enormous struggles that they interpreted to be driven by God/Holy Spirit when, actually, it could have simply been caused by practicing CP. Cutting down on CP and using a prayer approach like lectio divina that engages one in prayer through the faculties and gently leads one to rest could be of great help to many. Instead, they feel compelled to keep pushing through to get rid of the blocks separating them from God. Ugh . .

OK, youze guyz. Now that I've rained on this parade again, back to you.

I'm following the discussion and learning a lot. Thank you Phil, for starting this discussion and thank you all of you who participated in this discussion.

Thirty years hence, when PSR is as well known as FTK
I'll be able to say "I knew him back in the day."

http://www.contemplativeoutrea...rg/journey/index.htm

http://centeringprayer.com/newtstinsp.htm

A couple of Lenten Linken...

MM, there is no doubt that Fr. Keating writes beautifully and perceptively on Christian contemplative issues. That what he's writing about is all somehow connected to CP practice and what happens as a consequence of this practice is another matter altogether.

As CP teachers frequently point to the Cloud of Unknowing as a touch-point in the Tradition, it might help to listen to what the author of The Cloud is saying about this work.

quote:

Whoever you are possessing this book, know that I charge you with a serious responsibility, to which I attach the sternest sanctions that the bonds of love can bear. It does not matter whether this book belongs to you, whether you are keeping it for someone else, whether you are taking it to someone, or borrowing it; you are not to read it, write or speak of it, nor allow another to do so, unless you really believe that he is a person deeply committed to follow Christ perfectly. I have in mind a person who, over and above the good works of the active life, has resolved to follow Christ (as far as humanly possible with God's grace) into the inmost depths of contemplation. Do your best to determine if he is one who has first been faithrul for some time to the demands of the active life, for otherwise he will not be prepared to fathon the contents of this book.

Moreover, I charge you with love's authority, if you do give this book to someone else, warn them (as I warn you) to take the time to read it thoroughly. For it is very possible that certain chapters do not stand by themselves but require the explanation given in other chapters to complete their meaning. I fear lest a person read only some parts and quickly fall into error. To avoid a blunder like this, I beg you and anyone else reading this book, for love's sake, to do as I ask.

Note the implication that this kind of practice is not meant for beginners, and that the practice recommended presumes a committed Christian who has been striving to live the Christian life. As one reads through the book, one finds other indications that the one for whom the book is being written is already beginning to experience contemplation, in some manner, or else feels a draw to it that indicates an invitation to come to God in that manner. The author is not presenting a method on how to "acquire contemplation" and seems to know nothing of the sort.

quote:

And so, with exquisite kindness, he awakened desire within you, and binding it fast with the leash of love's longing, drew you closer to himself into what I have called the more Special manner of living.

This desire indicates the early stirring of contemplative graces. Then . .

quote:

Is there more? Yes, for from the beginning I think God's love for you was so great that his heart could not rest satisfied with this. What did he do? Do you not see how gently and how kindly he has drawn you on to the thired way of life, the Singular? Yes, you love now at the deep solitary core of your being, learning to direct your loving desires toward the highest and final manner of living which I have called Perfect.

- boldface added; quotes from Introduction and Chapter 1 of The Cloud of Unknowing

The recipient of this teaching is not only experiencing contemplative stirrings, but is already deeply and authentically awake "at the deep solitary core of their being." IOW, this is a mature Christian, habitually recollected, grounded in the teaching of the Church, and formed through the active life (practice of virtue, lectio divina, Sacraments, etc.). The author of the Cloud is providing teaching on how to enter this new time of life -- to cooperate in surrendering to contemplative graces that are, in fact, being offered.

Contrast this with CP teaching and practice, where anyone may attend a workshop and even intensive retreats, where the practice goes on for hours and hours every day. We've noted above that there can be good fruit, but what I'm stressing, here, is that it might not be contemplation, and much can be attributed to natural dynamics like the activation of the unconscious.

Note, now, the following exchange between Jim Arraj (boldface) and Fr. Basil Pennington (italics); my own comments will be in ( ).

1. Should people be introduced rather indiscriminately to Centering Prayer, as seems to happen, without an assessment of their experience of more discursive forms of meditation?

We do not judge people. We presume they come seeking a deeper union with God. This is a thing of grace. We don't want to bind God's action to our conceptions of steps and stages.

(Fr. Basil didn't really address the concern, did he, and, in fact, indulged a logical fallacy by implying that Arraj is wanting to judge people or limit God's action. How's that for turning the question around? )

Could they not benefit from exercising themselves in forms of meditation where they use their senses, imagination, intellect, memory and will in a more active fashion...

Yes, this is why Fr. Thomas and I regularly insist on lectio and share it at most prayershops.

(As I've noted above, this lectio section is pathetically short and often seems perfunctory.)

and only later turn to Centering Prayer?

Why only later?

(Flippant retort?)

If Centering Prayer is a preparation for contemplation,

Centering Prayer is not only an opening to contemplative prayer but it is often contemplative prayer.

(Umm, no! If you're doing CP, that's not contemplative prayer. And to speak of it as an "opening to contemplative prayer" gives the wrong impression -- as though contemplative prayer needs an opening of some kind.)

I will continue with this off and on during the days ahead, and hope for more response from readers.

Thirty years hence, when PSR is as well known as FTK I'll be able to say "I knew him back in the day."

You know, strangely enough I had the same inklings, MM. I hope Phil is prepared for more responsibility, noise, demands and even autograph sessions due to his teachings. Oh, the irony of one's competence in the teachings of prayer and meditation driving one to an environment that is hostile to them.

It's likely that "there is nothing new under the sun" as Solomon so wisely said, and that the new tools from science are only giving us a new look at what was already there.

In China, there has been a competition with the Confucian mind, which was Scholastic and had it all figured out and the Taoist mind, which admits that we never really know, but we can work with it as it is.

The author of the Cloud was a scientist as surely as any other scientist, and said that this would not work for someone approaching it with the wrong motives. My own experience has verified this.

As we delve into the Desert Fathers and the Midieval and Rennaisance Mystics, we find many of these scientific experiments were conducted long ago. The Trappists have been looking at there own practice, and reforming their order again, so they set a good example for us all of "Open Mind, Open Heart."

It is a priviledge to know such wise elders and to even have a forum to share the mystery.

great-full,

mm <*)))))><

It may seem as though I am picking nits, here, but there is a history behind all of this that many do not know, or have lost sight of. Jim Arraj has explored it in depth in From St. John of the Cross to Us: The Story of a 400 Year Long Misunderstanding and what it means for the Future of Christian Mysticism.

Basically, what this is about is the climate after John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila, when people were excited about contemplative spirituality. Many wanted to experience what they described, and they recommended practices very similar to CP, thinking (wrongly) that this is what John was saying. The decades that followed brought forth some truly bizarre teachings and practices, none the least of which was Questism, which is ever-lurking in the shadows where contemplative methods are taught. The teaching of Miguel de Molinas, in particular, resonates dangerously close to some aspects of CP teaching, especially those on "pure faith."

Following this period, there was an anti-mystical backlash in the Church, which endured until after the Second Vatican Council. Within a couple of decades, CP had emerged as the Christian response to New Age and Eastern methods of meditation. And so here we are today.

Fr. Keating is aware of this history, and has tried to avoid the same mistakes by recommending Lectio Divina and by upholding the traditional doctrines of the Faith. Some of the early teachings (his Wilber phase, I call it) are problemmatic, however, especially in relating contemplative experience to Ruth Burrows. Chapter 13 from the book on St. John cited above goes into this, at length.

All just FYI. I'm aware that many don't care much about any of this, but I'm hoping this thread can serve as a resource area for discussion of this topic.

I have read the book and may read it again. Arraj is a good resource and I'm glad he is around.

http://www.bernardofclairvaux....nasticism/index.html

You can see from monastic history that they endured many ascetic practices which we might see as extreme
by today's standards. Then they got too comfortable and reformed or went away. Dillentantes of today may not share the single-mindedness of the pioneers. I believe they were our betters in some ways.

Many of the spiritual experimenters suffered in their health from Bernard to Florence Nightingale.
Great Saints have great suffering. Why? Don't know
but maybe that's what it takes sometimes.


caritas,

mm <*)))))><

You can see from monastic history that they endured many ascetic practices which we might see as extreme by today's standards.

Ya think? These are just the first ten words from that Bernard of Clairvaux link:

quote:

At two in the morning the great bell was rung�

TWO IN THE MORNING? Who (and excuse my French) the heck is going around ringing bells at two in the morning? There had better be a fire and it better be a BIG one.

Great Saints have great suffering. Why?

Not enough sleep, I imagine.

This has been a great discussion.

I don't have much experience of CP but I did try it. For what it's worth, I found the use of the special word to be rather cold and empty. I'm not experienced enough to offer any sort of valid evaluation and anything I have to offer is probably fairly abstract.

I have found,however, that when one uses a single short word in prayer and intuitively relates the word to divine presence, IOW allows the word to expand and gently fill itself with God through will and imagination, rather than use it to concentrate or empty the mind, the experience is much fuller and warmer. This, for me, has opened up heaven, as it were, whereas CP seemed to close things down, empty the mind without re-filling it, a bit like a union strike at a car plant. Perhaps the expansion of a word is in the spirit of lectio and is similar to the use of mental imagery to connect with God. I think also I detect the element of grace in the results of this process, quite apart from the infused grace of contemplation that comes at other times, results which are more like sweet fruits than cheap junk food.

Yes, there is discipline and suffering involved with spiritual growth, and some of our great saints were olympic champs when it came to such. I'm not into avoiding necessary suffering in the interest of spiritual growth. But I think Stephen's post indicates more some of the issues at stake, here, namely the different ways a word or phrase can be used.

Let's back up a little. In CP teaching, you'll find many references to God being beyond all concepts, which is, of course, true. But it's not the whole truth, as in Christianity, God is also revealed through the history of the Jews and, especially, through the person of Jesus Christ, who is "the image of the unseen God, the first born of the new creation." (Col. 1). Theology even affirms that creation tells us something of God--something the Psalmist rejoiced over long ago.

In the history of Christian spirituality, the apophatic tradition (negative way, God-beyond-images) was generally a corrective to the kataphatic (sacramental way, God-mediated via symbol, creation). It almost seems as though some CP teachers have turned things around so that the apophatic is considered normative and the kataphatic second-rate. Listen to these quotes from this page, which we've visited before. First we hear Bonnie Shimizu, who is a leader in Contemplative Outreach.

quote:

2. Centering Prayer goes beyond words, thoughts, and feelings and in that sense is not what John of the Cross calls "meditation."

Don't ask me why meditation has to be put in quotes.

quote:

The teaching of Centering Prayer is that we do not analyze the thoughts, feelings, images, etc., but we allow them to come and go. What is learned over time is an attitude of non-attachment to the contents of the mind and a deeper trust in the wisdom of God in moving through the difficult experiences that can sometimes arise during prayer. All models of reality are simply that - models. Even the best models cannot describe all of reality. Our attitude is to be faithful to the prayer and let God reveal reality in his own good time.

It doesn't follow that because a model doesn't "describe all of reality" (actually, some do), that:
a. what they tell us is limiting nonsense;
b. that concepts do not convey presence or relational energies;
c. that the only valid encounter with God therefore goes beyond all this concept/model stuff.

Is it just me, or is there a kind of bias against kataphatic spirituality manifesting, here?

From Fr. Pennington:

quote:

Whenever we become aware of anything we very simply, very gently return to God by use of our word.

Think about this statement. Is he not saying that awareness of anything other than silent rest or the focus provided by the sacred word is a "distraction"? IOW, any content of awareness is somehow to be regarded as taking one away from God -- even holy thoughts, feelings, etc.?

Etc. etc.

As I've noted before, this is not a criticism of centering prayer per se, nor the good that comes from it, nor, less, the good people who have promoted it. What I'm calling attention to now is the lack of appreciation for kataphatic, sacramental spirituality that seems to be present in some of these teachings. What would be far more natural in prayer is to meet God through kataphic means when grace seems to move in that manner, then to go deeper when we are drawn in that direction, to use a sacred word or phrase as Stephen suggested above at time, then return to reading, etc. IOW, the kataphatic and apophatic ought to be a kind of dance -- even in a prayer time! CP categorically dismisses kataphatic connections with God, or else relegates them to a time before or after the time of CP practice. In my own experience (which is not normative or definitive, for sure), this introduces an un-natural manner of relating to God. One can be as desirous of meeting God and as intense in exercising the will-to-God through kataphatic means as through CP practice, the difference being that in the former case, one does not feel constrained to avoid times of quiet and rest when they come, while in the latter, one is restricting the exercise of the will-to-God and openness to receiving grace only to apophatic means. When this is justified because "God is beyond all images and concepts," I think there is an unhealthy imbalance.

The supernatural Spirit, God, who is beyond all thoughts, feelings, concepts, and images, can also be present to us through these mediums as well. For those who know the voice of the Shepherd, He is found through many means -- not only in the silence beyond "awareness of anything."

Trappists take Ben Franklin way too seriously.

I'm just getting to sleep @ 2

What methods, I wonder, would work for all of the other types of people? Look at all of the different orders in the Church and differing visions of the saints. Franciscans tend toward compassion, Dominicans are preachers, Jesuits are scholars, Carmelites are devotional, Trappists are strict, "work and pray" Benedictines make music, etc.

manyroadsonejourney.com

Yes, my own limited experience has been of God revealing Himself through the meaning, atmosphere, vibration of a word rather than through the silence that the word is meant to establish. Not that the meaning is analysed, but rather felt intuitively.

I don't want to be too critical of CP but I would dare to suggest, and I'm open to correction, that our whole experience of God, especially after the incarnation, is necessarily mediated. God is formless and beyond images but sin effects a separation which prohibits a full and true understanding of Him without His manifestation in human form, without Christ's mediation. At any rate the fullest experience one can have of God is through Christ as mediator. Is God compelled to respond to silence? Is there not a danger that the silence can be left unfilled, or worse still, filled by something other than God? What if one is only left with emptiness or the void? Only when silence is akin to the "still, small voice" is it worth anything.

Maybe I'm being a bit dramatic, silly even, and advocates of CP will surely find my objections unreasonable, prove my worries unfounded, but really I'm only voicing my concerns and stressing the necessity of meeting God through Christ as the Word . I know a lot of people find CP closer to eastern forms of meditation and that probably influences my thinking somewhat.

Glad you are around, Stephen. Interesting. I've yet to have a substantial difference with brother Phil,
and you fellows are helping me find new dimensions
every day. Thanks to all!

Here is a bit of Cistercian history:

http://www.osb.org/cist

http://www.monks.org/history.html

http://www.osb.org/cist/intro.html

The Cistercians have a long history and many battles with Muslims, Albigensians, Humanists and Communists have given them a militant reputation.
Some of them fought in the World Wars, but I believe that they stand for peace, and the proof is in the pudding.


Disclaimer:

mysticalmichael does not recommend seeking or inducing a kundalini experience, or recommend any specific spiritual practice other than discipleship.

"He is no fool who leaves what he cannot keep to gain what he can never lose." - Jim Elliot

caritas,

mm <*)))))>,

Michael, it's true that there are all these different charisms for the various orders, but one thing they all do is pray. Ultimately, what we're discussing here is Christian prayer, and what we understand prayer to be.

We've seen how Pennington suggests going to the CP word whenever we become aware of anything; Keating says the same in his teachings on pure faith. Now I'm not doubting that this is prayer, only that it is much too restrictive a definition, and much too implicitly discounting of kataphatic means. Buttressed by the constant emphasis that "God is beyond all words and concepts," what you end up with is an emphasis on kataphatic prayer as being helpful primarily because it provides a "conceptual infrastructure" to support CP and whatever contemplative graces might come. What is missing, here, is the acknowledgement of what Stephen is saying about the word itself, especially the Gospels and the person of Christ, mediate God's presence. This transforms the faculties and their operations, so that our conscious human knowing, far from being an obstacle to God, becomes attuned to God's presence, each faculty in its own unique way. This includes the intellect/reason, and the power of conceputalization. Just so long as we don't confuse the concept with the reality (does anyone really do that?), then concepts can be a means through which we focus our attention toward God. In fact, it's the most natural of all ways, and so shouldn't be discounted or minimized.

Is there not a danger that the silence can be left unfilled, or worse still, filled by something other than God? What if one is only left with emptiness or the void?

Stephen, I don't think evil spirit can enter in when one's intention is so explicitly focused on God, especially if one is living in a state of grace. The biggest dangers are those we've touched on above -- namely, activation of the unconscious to such a degree as to diminish the role of consciousness in prayer and the spiritual life; and quietism, which would be what you're calling "emptiness or the void."

- - -

Let's turn again briefly to the notion that, as Bonnie Shimizu and, indeed, Fr. Keating, teaches that the gift of contemplation is one which is already given (the divine indwelling) and Centering Prayer simply cultivates our receptivity to the gift and helps to remove the obstacles to our awareness of it. Arraj has responded to this in some detail, but I want to add my two cents, here.

First of all, notice that contemplation is referred to as something of a "given." We're all contemplating already, only we're not aware of this because of inner obstacles, presumably the defenses and emotional programs of the false self. I would submit to you that this is not the traditional understanding of contemplation, especially infused graces. While it is true that God dwells within (and alongside and beyond), it doesn't follow that God's indwelling presence is contemplation, nor that we somehow enter into this presence if we ever manage to remove our defenses. At best, what we can obtain through our own efforts would be something akin to enlightenment, or natural beaitutde, which is not infused contemplation. The latter, as mentioned many times, is a gift of the Holy Spirit given to those whom the Spirit wills when/where She wills.

Note that I'm not saying, here, that it's not a good thing to have those inner blocks removed, either by the unloading effected by CP practice or other means. What I am saying is that doing so does not guarantee one any kind of contemplative grace or experience of union with God as it has been desribed by Christian mystical writers. Also, if one is not careful, one can get the idea that the reason one does not experience God more is because one still has all these inner blocks, and that can be discouraging.

A counterpoint to all of this, and one that is seldom mentioned by CP teachers and Contemplative Outreach, is the plain fact that there are many, many Christians who do not manifest contemplative graces and who do not practice CP, yet who are nonetheless very close to God. So many of the religious sisters I work with and have come to know in Great Bend fit this description. So does my wife! Their prayer style is almost completely kataphatic, and this nourishes them. Their will is habitually oriented to God, and they have a sense of God through the faith that so informs their identity and lifestyle. There is no doubting that these holy souls are in union with God. In the end, the telling factor is the fruits of one's life, and we see abundant fruit in people who are faithfrul to prayer in a kataphatic mode. They exercise their will-to-God just as purely as do CP practitioners, and one can assume that they are just as open to God's presence and action within. So this is very much prayer, and it is open to more even possibilities for encountering God than CP. Something to consider . . .

CP is not meant to replace other types of prayer, and there are as many as there are people, I suppose. When I got into CP, I began to read about Cistercian, Carmelite and Benedictine lives and histories, and this provided a POV for myself that took into consideration the context in which this type of prayer often took place.

They worked very hard and prayed and did Lectio and sang and worshipped and took care of each other. They turned swamps and deserts into paradise, often under much hardship and with great joy. Not that they were so spiritual, as I'm sure they had many people problems much as any other group of strong-willed individuals. How did
they do it? I believe that they experimented and were aided by divine grace. Can this be reproduced outside the monastery? Keating seems to believe so and that divine union lies within the reach of most of us. Is he overly enthusiastic, especially in our degraded culture? I don't know, I tend a bit toward idealism myself, and perhaps have erred
in my estimation of the movement. I am concerned that many CP people wander from the faith.

Here is a book that influenced me and just flat sold me on the Trappists:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi.../102-2352473-1562523

Here's a link for the Indiana Jones fans:

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar

Phil, you may be sharing some things part of me is not wanting to hear, but this does not mean I do not need to hear them. It's like taking the red pill instead of the blue pill, all Morpheus promised Neo was the truth, By all means, let us seek it wherever it may lead.

caritas,

mm <*)))))><

I wonder if there might be a "People Damaged by Centering Prayer" support group forming somewhere.
There are many dangers, and a reading of Merton's journals reveals that many of the best monks were leaving Gethsemani. One had to leave when he became
"spiritually overheated." There are bound to be problems.

I've seen brain scans in Newsweek and Reader's Digest showing decreased activity in monks and meditators in the area of the brain thought to be responsible for feelings of separateness from others. This can be a desirable effect producing love and tolerance. The down side of it is that
someone can let their guard down and embrace theological nonsense and New Age thinking. It may be helpful then to have some corrective remedy for this, something to keep oneself individually and collectively close to Christ and His Body.

I would propose that the Church Fathers be read and I can see that they are by visiting the bookstore at Contemplative Outreach. Sure, they have some Wayne Teasdale and other mystical liberals, but overall I see a balance and it's nothing that the Holy Spirit cannot handle. There is a very loving intention behind the movement and I feel that makes all the difference in the world.

We may see some flakey spin-offs in the years to come as well as as more conservative watchdog groups or whatever, but we have a 2000-year-old tradition and volumes and volumes of experience and good orderly direction.

Hope to see you all at the finish of the race...

caritas,

mm <*)))))><

Michael, I appreciate the spice and perspective you've added to this discussion. I see how you keep reminding us that these are all good people with good intentions, and I agree.

CP is not meant to replace other types of prayer, and there are as many as there are people, I suppose.

Notice the prayer and spirituality styles on this page, which we are discussing in one of the premium groups. You'll see that Introverted Intuitives are the group most associated with the classical descriptions of contemplative prayer. That's my type, and it's Fr. Keating's as well, I'd imagine. It was also John of the Cross's.

Now I'm not sure I agree with your statement above, however, in that it seems as though once one takes to CP, it becomes the most important form of prayer. It also seems that many come to it without much proper formation in other forms of prayer, or even without exploring what might be more appropriate for their temperament. This is just a general observation, which I'm sure could be countered easily.

I'm pretty much caught up with what I wanted to say on this thread, and I've a busy week ahead, which will leave me away from computers for much of the time. Some directions I'd be interested in continuing to explore are listed below:

1. The relationship between CP practice and what we might call "Christian enlightenment."

2. Has Fr. Keating pretty much abandoned his dependence on Wilber in articulating the spiritual journey?

3. Is there a better alternative to CP to introduce to people who are interested in going deeper into prayer? What about traditional practices like silence, solitude, lectio divina, and even oldie/goldies like praise and adoration? Then, of course, charismatic prayer . . .

4. Echoing MM's point above, what about those who have experienced negative consequences from CP practice? I know there are some, but how common is this?

5. Is it really true that all are called to experience contemplation? What about all the many mature Christians who are filled with faith and love, but who never seem to show much evidence of apophatic prayer?

I'll stop there, inviting more sharing and comments from those who are interested in these topics. Thanks to all who've participated so far.

What is charismatic prayer?

Sorry, I was talking mainly about glossalalia, or speaking in tongues.