Hi. I have heard it said that, in general, extroverts are more given over to mantra type practice and introverted types silent wordless prayer. Is there any truth to this. How does one determine, discern, which prayer form he may be best suited for: for example, recitation of the Jesus Prayer or Centering Prayer? Is it just practice and doing what "feels" right. I would just like some thoughts on this matter from other's experience. Thank you.

Devinath

I think it's a complicated topic, Devinath. We took this up in depth in the premium group on psychological types and spirituality, without much light coming from the discussions.
- see https://shalomplace.org/psychetypes.html for more info.

In general, it seems that introverts are more easily inclined to silence and solitude, but not necessarily to inner silence. When extraverts close their eyes and shut out the outer world, they seem to come to silence quickly.

There are web pages and books that link prayer styles to temperament types, but the psychtypes group found these associations only generally true, with many exceptions.

See http://home.att.net/~revdak/spir243/lecture07.htm and http://www.managementfutures.c...e99/jun99-item5.html (humorous insights).

Devinath,

The problem there is, such people are self-centered. Once you're God-centered, such things won't matter at all.

Being self-conscious is a mark of pride. Whenever a person focuses his eye on himself, it is pride. A humble person is one whose eyes are on God. He is never bothered what people say about him, as all He cares is what God has to say about him.


The Hindu faith stresses on considering self as divine, and looking at self as a "god". Positive thinking is part of this. Don't get me wrong, I believe in positive thinking and confession, but the biblical way. Not where you deny the sinfulness of man, and his need for a Savior. The bible teaches to DENY self, instead of exalting it.

Aploutrosis,

I am not quite certain how this responds to my question. I agree that we should be "God" centered and not "self" centered.i.e., not focused on the concerns of teh small self (ego) but oriented and guided by the Atman or Divine Self. However, given that each of us has a unique personality, I was wondering whether there was a prayer form more suited to different personality types that would enable eacj to more readily access and open themselves to the presence of God.

Peace,

Devinath

Apol,

We are not to live out of the Fallen self, but to revel in the Christ self I think is exactly what God wants. Because the Christ self is not self centred, but reflects on self as a vehicle through which spiritual growth and reaching out in Love to God and others happens.

"Love your neighbor AS yourself," is what the Lord said, along with teaching on losing self, denying self, etc. It all depends on how self is being used . . . sometimes in reference to selfish tendencies, others to the gift of one's life.

We do need to be attentive to our inner life, emotions, intentions, consents, etc. This is part of what is entailed in self-knowledge, prudence, and self-responsibility, and it's not the same as some kind of myopic navel-gazing. Understanding one's psychological type is in the interest of healthy self-acceptance and can enhance self-understanding. Nothing wrong with that, imo.

"Not focused on the concerns of teh small self (ego) but oriented and guided by the Atman or Divine Self" -Devinath

I disagree strongly with this statement. There is NO DIVINITY in self. Self is absolutely human. ONLY God is divine, and He is the Creator. No human being can be Divine. However, a human being can be the temple for Divinity.

I come from the hindu faith, and I know the kind of teaching that tells us to consider our Divine Self. Self is sinful and of the fallen nature. We must constantly DENY it.

Apolutrosis:

Hi. I begin with with the statement and the assumption in Genesis that humanity is made in the image and likeness of God. In a very fundamental sense, who we are is divine, is good (because God is good)and we participate in the nature of that goodness. I would agree, however, that the ego, as a tool for enabling us to function in this world,must learn to unite itself and be guided by, even dissolved into, the Divine Self. Besides, if humanity were not capable of divinity, then the incarnation would not have been possible. Divinity and humanity do not compete with one another, but fulfull eachother.

Example, look at the Scripture and the evolution of its conception of God even historically, I would argue, without going into details, that Scripture itself mirrors the complexities and even the contradictions of a developing human consciousness.

Devinath

Dear Devinath,

God made us in His image, He didn't make us as "gods". He created us as humans. However, there has been a desire in man from the time of Adam and Eve to be "gods". This came as a result of Satan's talk with Eve. Satan longed to be "god", and this was the same tempting question he asked Eve, "You shall be like God".

The virgin birth is the answer to the divinity of Jesus. The divinity of Jesus was in His blood. How? If you ask a good doctor, he will tell you that the blood of a child is from the father and not the mother. Jesus didn't have Mary's blood, but had divine blood. However, we don't have divine blood in our veins, we have human blood. However, we can be partakers of the divine nature through the blood(2 Peter 1:3-4). We don't become divine, we remain human but our spirits become alive, and the divine Holy Spirit moves into our spirit. Our spirit doesn't become the Holy Spirit. Our spirit remains as the human spirit, but the Holy Spirit dwells in us. We become temples of the living God.

Moreover, the bible says Jesus is the Son of God through the Spirit of Holiness(Romans 1), and the Son of Man, He was a descendant of David. But through the Spirit of Holiness, He is very God.

DO not mix hindu theology with the Bible, Devinath.

Sidharth

Dear Apolutrosis:

How do you then, understand what it is to made in the image and likeness of God? Would you empty it of all divine content? And if so, on what basis?

Sincerely,

Devinath

Devinath, we've gone over this on numerous threads -- that the meaning of "image and likeness of God" means that we possess a spiritual nature. The biblical meaning of this phrase does not translate to an equivalent of the Hindu notion of Atman.

And Sid, Christian theology holds that Jesus is the Son of God by virtue of the incarnation of the Son of God, or Second Person of the Trinity. He is not made divine through the "Spirit of Holiness," but is divine by virtue of the incarnation.

Much of this is all just basic Christian theology. How about we get back to the thread topic?

Hey, Phil, we were just having a little brotherly discussion. Geez.

Devinath

phil:

Also, many of us, who work full time as just looking for a way to discuss some issues when they get a chance. Not everyone has the ability nor the desire to read all the threads about themes that may or may not have been covered. One, especially one like myself, who is relatively new to this forum, should be able express themselves, as long as they are being civil and respectful, without being chastised in a patronizing and condescending manner as I have experienced in other threads. So,if Apolutrosis want to have a little discussion here, who is it hurting? It is relevant to the topic and apparently it is not new ground for he and I.

Respectfully,

Devinath

That's fine, D.

A suggestion I keep posting for all is to try the "search" link at the top of each forum page to see what's already been discussed on a topic. And regarding common Christian concepts, a google search can yield good results. It makes little sense to try to puzzle out for oneself the meaning of phrases like "image and likeness of God" or Christ's divinity -- as though we don't already have 2000 years of Christian reflection and teaching on these and similar topics.

No intent to be patronizing, here, only to suggest that we make better use of the wisdom of the ages that's been given to us so we can "get on with it" to discuss new frontiers -- like personality types and contemplative prayer.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Apolutrosis:
"If you ask a good doctor, he will tell you that the blood of a child is from the father and not the mother."

Apolutrosis: This is fascinating. I agree that Jesus is divine by way of the Incarnation...but I have never heard this particular argument for it. Do you have a link the speaks to this? I'd like to read more.

Devinath;
On the original topic of personality types: When I first desired to go deeper with God, I thought this might be a fruitful avenue to explore, as I have found the Myers-Briggs personality types to be a really helpful framework for understanding myself and others. There are several books written about the connection: "Soultypes" "Your Spiritual Personality" and "Prayer and Temperment" Ultimately, though, they proved too general to help me much, and they disagreed with one another to a great extent. In the end, I found a combination of trial and error, and the help of a good spiritual director, to be more helpful.
I did learn one important, and freeing thing, though. As an INFJ, I thought that an ordered, systematic spiritual life would be the one that would speak to my personality, and I could never figure our why I couldn't sustain regular prayer disciplines, no matter how hard I tried. In fact, something in me seemed deeply resistant to that whole approach. What I learned is that, as an introvert, I use my less-prefered function to interact with the outside world. (I test "J" and behave "J" with others) ...but in my interior life, I am the opposite, I am truely a "P".
Knowing this gave me permission to explore other expressions of spirituality more freely.
This is a vast over-simplification, of course, and may be awkwardly stated, but it's an interesting thing to pursue.
Revkah

revkah and Sid, blood is not from the father nor mother, but is produced by the child itself via stem cells in its bone marrow. The bone marrow is genetically diploid, having DNA from the mother and father.

However else we might understand the incarnation of Christ, I don't think it will work to say that Jesus' blood came from the Father but not his mother.

Here's a book I read several years ago and thought it helpful in many ways.

This web page has some interesting info on psyche types and preaching.

One consideration, however, is that as we grow older, we generally operate out of more and more of our psyche, as we come to integrate the opposite side of our personality. One often finds people discovering a deeper experience of prayer as they learn to pray out of the weaker functions. In fact, it often seems that the fourth or shadow function enables one to open to a completely different form of prayer -- one that is more numinous and integrative. For me, this is extraverted sensation. Just sitting outside, listening to the birds, feeling the breeze, smelling the smells . . . this can be a most enjoyable experience, bringing a Franciscan-like appreciation for God's presence in nature.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Phil:
"However else we might understand the incarnation of Christ, I don't think it will work to say that Jesus' blood came from the Father but not his mother. [/QB][/QUOTE"]

Phil -
That's what I thought, but it's nice to have someone with a science background confirm it.

Thanks for the links, especially the preaching one.

I'm sorry, Phil. This is medically proved. You might as well ask a Doctor. The blood of the child comes from the father.
I do know the blood cells are produced from bone marrow cells, and have learnt all that in detail as my field is linked to the medical field.

I have asked many good doctors and they have confirmed it. However, I will get the info and paste it in here.

"who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God"(Romans 1:4)

I never said He was MADE the Son of God. He is the second Person of the Trinity. I said He IS the Son of God through the Spirit of Holiness.

quote:

Originally posted by Apolutrosis:
[qb] I'm sorry, Phil. This is medically proved. You might as well ask a Doctor. The blood of the child comes from the father.
I do know the blood cells are produced from bone marrow cells, and have learnt all that in detail as my field is linked to the medical field.

I have asked many good doctors and they have confirmed it. However, I will get the info and paste it in here. [/qb]

Sorry, Sid, but no matter what your doctors are telling you, the fact is that an embryo receives half its DNA from the mother and half from the father, and every cell in the body has this complement of genetic material. Bone marrow is no exception.

I am not sure where to ask this so I will ask it here: how do you understand the so-called baptism of the Holy Spirit and how does one receive it?

Devinath

There is discussion board called the "The Holy Spirit Baptism" in this Site.

Yes, it isn't a "so-called" Holy Spirit baptism. The bible speaks about it.