Anybody ever try to mesh the two?

I have been working on this and got the idea as I was praying the new mysteries the first week they were out.

PURGATION:

The Call- The spiritual journey begins with the instinctive call to become more than we are. Intuitively we know there is more to life and the universe than we can see and we begin to search for it blindly. This is normally after a period of great loss.

The False Start- The call is heard but we don�t seem up to the task and often fail, backslide or retreat from the call because of our spiritual immaturity. The world is just so big and we seem so small and the destination seems so far away.

The Male Guide- We meet a male guide who teaches us a strict ethical code and the basics of meditation.

Testing the Will- We must surrender to the will of the universe as we are purified by an internal fire. It is a harsh first step, but the uncreated light destroys those not prepared for it.

Crossing the First Threshold- After a while of strict ascetic practice we breach the first veil of the universe and appear outside of our physical body in another intangible body.

ILLUMINATION:

The Road of Trials- At first the new spiritual reality we are exposed to is overwhelming. New challenges and ordeals strengthen the inner man. Out of body experiences are common at this stage but are an unhealthy aberration and not to be encouraged or sought.

The Conflict with the Material- Through the practice of meditation our priorities fall away from things of the world and begin to center on eternal things to the detriment of all else in our lives.

The Female Guide- The Lady in white makes her first visionary appearances speaking to us the most sublime truths to guide us to relax, trust our feelings and open ourselves to the wisdom deep within us.

Testing the Feelings- This is the experience of being drawn above yourself and feeling a sort of high speed flight through a tunnel until we reach its end and light blazes before our inner vision.

Crossing the Second Threshold- While actively going about your day you un-expectantly enter the vision of the universal uncreated light. Basking in this light fulfills every desire, heals every wound and proves that all living things are connected.

DARK NIGHT:

Refusal of Return- After seeing the ultimate and experiencing perfect contentment, all the pleasures in this perishable world becomes worthless and we do not wish to return to the toil and suffering of everyday life.

The Escape- We withdraw from the world because we lose the ability to interact with it in any meaningful way because the uncreated light is remaking our entire being. Homelessness is common at this stage.

The Angel Guide- While we may have withdrawn into the wilderness a messenger is sent by the universe to convince us to return to the world.

Testing the Intellect- Remaining true to natural law, perennial philosophy and overcoming the desert tests of presumption, doubt and despair, is the intellectual testing.

Crossing the Return Threshold- This period is one of great introspection and the creation of a magnum opus that is in true accord with the eternal Art and Way.

ASCENSION:

Master of Two Worlds- This stage begins with an entrance into the unknowable, unfathomable and unexplainable during meditation. Levitations and bio-luminescence are common in this stage.

Becoming the Guide- This is a period of intense activity and now we teach the wisdom gained often with the ability to work miracles as proof of spiritual accomplishment. Because our message is contrary to what the world at large teaches, the powers of the world usually strike out at us to destroy our work and message.

The Ascended Guide- Now we meet with some of those who have gone before us into ascension, to guide, support and encourage us towards the final test.

The Test of Death- The final test is to fully accept our own death, unto death. This test along with the others is a chrysalis for us to become more than what we were before.

Crossing the Third Threshold- The last threshold is the final one where our bodies become glorified and we ascend into the radiant non-physical realms.

Welcome Darin from Detroit! Lived in Livonia and Farmington for awhile back in my grasshopper stage.
Almost picked up a Joseph Campbell book last week, but successfully resisted the temptation. Might do more Jungian work after awhile. Interesting...

Is Joseph Campbell considered bad by the Church? You mentioned Jung, whats church opinion if any on him. I bought his collected works and had to read everything, especially his long paragraphs and run on sentences several times to understand what he was saying. Jung seemed pro Catholic to me.

Joseph Campell was much easier. But Joe seemed anti-Catholic/christian to me.

Darin, that was an interesting description of the traditional stages of spiritual growth (with even an extra one -- ascension -- added). I resonated with some of it, but wondered where you got the part about male and female guides. Is that from your own experience?

You seem to be familiar with the classical understanding of these stages. Here's a link to descriptions of them for those who are interested.

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Re. Campbell and Jung . . . I'm not aware of any formal pronouncements on them. It sounds like you've picked up on some of the problemmatic aspects of Campbell's teachings, and there are a few rough edges in Jung as well. You might enjoy reading some of the articles and books by Jim and Tyra Arraj, whose Inner Explorations web site is a kind of companion site to this one. Click here for the relevant page.

Phil,
I got the male and female guide from personal experience and from the same sources as Joe. Joe just didn't pick it up. Plus from the lives of the mystics. It was just something I noticed and can't defend. It also looked balanced and I like symetrical things.

I think it has to do with the anima and animus within seeking wisdom without than to some grand mystical plan. When they "marry" then you get the androgenous angel within now seeking.

About the age of eight or nine I heard of Elijah going straight into heaven without death I have been curious about it. Ever since then that has been a sort of goal. Achievable or not it.

I have studied everybody credible who has claimed to ascend from around the world and found similarities. Once again it's just things I noticed and cant really defend with specific instances except virginity. St John, the Virgin Mary and Jesus were all virgins and Jesus ascended, Mary was assumed and St John was drawn into heaven many times. Little observations like that make me think that virginity is very important. Not very scientific but there you are.

Darin

[MM: I read one of Campbell's books and it was very good. I don't remember which one it was though. But I think you would enjoy his perspective.]

Re: Heroes Journey and Catholic Mysticism

From the Catholic Encyclopedia: �and among religious states, again, we have those of the contemplative, the active, and the mixed orders.

I don't wonder first if we must discern what kind of Hero's Journey we must go on, one that is more active or one that is more passive, but it seems clear just from human experience that life is a journey of some kind. Different psychologies describe different motivations and levels. Different religions describe different stages and end results. Even atheists have a journey, even if it ends in oblivion. But they all are about making some sort of progress. And truly, the part of the journey that deals only with this world is a big enough handful for most of us.

I think the only thing we can be sure of is that there is a Hero's Journey suited to our natures. It would probably be a waste of time for me to bother being fitted for a suit of armor, to find a lance that felt light and balanced in my hand, and to acquire a trusty steed on which to charge forth toward Dragonville. I'm not likely to be mistaken for King Arthur (or Rambo) anytime soon. On the other hand, our journeys are all about taking us places we thought we could never go. We don't know what we're capable of. That's exactly what the Hero's Journey is all about. It (especially according to Campbell) reveals our character. It doesn't make it. And that's one reason so many of us (especially me) are deeply afraid of such a journey. We suspect it will reveal we are cowards, weak, and incapable.

But I must confess that from both personal experience and from observing those around me, the Hero's Journey is more than just willful action. Willful action (that is, action for action's sake) alone can lead to one to doing little more than spinning one's wheels. There must be a deeper purpose attached. Perhaps the hardest thing to do regarding the Hero's Journey is discerning our true calling from the background noise of ego, fear, desperation, loneliness, anger, panic, or feelings of worthlessness. It is much too easy, particularly in this culture, to be motivated by feelings of inadequacy. Thus perhaps the religious component of the Hero's Journey is absolutely vital. We want to be on a Hero's Journey, not an Ego's Journey. We should be, even if faintly at first, engaging Destiny. Some larger purpose should appear, even if that purpose is not immediately clear. We should have the feeling of crossing over boundaries, not simply banging our head against them. And as brother Darin has made abundantly clear, we should surely be feeling fear, the kind of fear that is primal, that knows our very lives are at stake, especially our life in the context of: The one finding his life shall lose it. And the one losing his life on account of Me shall find it.

I think the Heroes Journey is more of a story telling tool to reveal inner truths and less a formula for people to follow literally. Star Wars and The Martix follow the Heroes Journey as a story telling tool and were very popular because some of the truths resonated deep within even the non-spiritual.

I've also worked on the classes of mystics. I hope they get better than "interesting" Phil. I can't believe all you could say was "interesting". You can be critical, I can take it. I am laughing by the way.

Phil, you got that high powered PhD. You'd be helping if you picked my stuff apart before I send it to the church for approval. Defending my thoughts is a good way to find out if I really know what I am talking about. It will keep me honest.


MYSTICS
Mystics come from every walk of life and experience God primarily through one of three faculties, the body (feelings), the mind (intellect), or the spirit (will). It all depends on the personal temperament of the individual. One is not higher than another and where one is all are.

Seraphic mystics love a personal God who is like a spouse (I was raptured and felt His indescribable love) and they seek union with God. Seraphic mystics experience God primarily through the feelings and their vice to become complacent. Seraphic mystics commonly use the language of interpersonal relationships (poetry) and the �love� of God.

Cherubic mystics know a transcendent Creator who is like an infinite reality (I was raptured and God revealed unfathomable mysteries to me) and they seek to know God. Cherubic mystics experience God primarily through the intellect and their vice to get caught up in idle speculation. Cherubic Mystics commonly use the language of logic (philosophical treatise) and concentrate on the �knowledge� of God (or lack thereof).

Throne mystics serve an inner Unity that is like a dynamic power (I was raptured into the uncreated light of the Presence) and they seek transcendence unto God. Throne mystics experience God primarily through the will and their vice is hubris. Throne mystics commonly use the language of aphorisms (proverbs) to transmit their teachings and have the �Eternal Life� of God as their focus.

I think the Heroes Journey is more of a story telling tool to reveal inner truths and less a formula for people to follow literally.

Don�t you think perhaps that one of those inner truths is that we all have a Journey to make, Darin? I certainly do. I guess the point I would make is that the Journey that we need to make isn�t necessarily going to look like Luke Skywalker�s or Sir Galahad�s. And perhaps that�s what you mean as well. Our Hero�s Journey may be to grasp some inner truths. But since it is our inner truths that effect our outer actions, these things are inextricably tied together, I think.

Star Wars and The Martix follow the Heroes Journey as a story telling tool and were very popular because some of the truths resonated deep within even the non-spiritual.

George Lucas did a wonderful job of telling that classic story. And indeed this story does resonate with us. We, first of all, like the idea of being unambiguously good, and there�s not a more obvious and symbolic way to do that then to battle unambiguous evil. Oh, if only the world was this simple! We rarely have a chance to show our goodness and bravery these days. Everything is a shade of gray. No one (not even Islamic Fascists who blow up innocent civilians by the dozens) are perceived universally by those who should know better as evil. There is not much for the red-blooded male to sink his teeth into, morality- and heroically-wise. Surely military service is one of these ways perhaps?

But we all still have these heroic instincts and an affinity for the whole Hero�s Journey motif. In fact, I was not joking about the trusty steed. Most men have one. Just look around. I was truly flabbergasted the other day when I looked around and realized that about every second vehicle on the road was a truck! There you have the modern equivalent of the charger.

And every man (can�t speak for women in this regard) feels the pull of adventure, of testing one�s self, of doing hard things and thereby gaining a respected place in the community of men. This is deeply embedded in our DNA. If one reads of the attitudes of young men in Europe just prior to WWI, it�s horribly startling to learn how absolutely enthusiastic most men were to go to war � even after the horrors of trench warfare were made plain! For them it was an adventure, a chance to take part in something grand. As horrible as wars are, there is something that kicks in and blocks the human mind (at least the human male mind) from the realities of the pain and carnage of war. It�s an odd thing but surely the Hero�s Journey would not have anywhere near the interest and pull that it does if it did not tap into this male proclivity in some way.

And I think without a doubt the biggest draw of the Hero�s Journey is the acquisition of purpose. The particulars of the journey itself are almost unimportant as long as there is some type of a worthy goal. If there is the opportunity of danger in achieving that goal then all the better. Easy goals have less meaning, for to have meaning and purpose is often of first importance. And hardship is a plus, not a minus, for it serves to give meaning to our sufferings.

As a shy and "avoidant" introvert (by training, not by DNA, I think), it is hard to satisfactorily conceive of the Hero�s Journey in terms of the inward variety. But that journey is real and it is a most worthy one. Ultimately it is often the journey we cunningly avoid by way of the hot and bother of a more outward, showy manifestation of the journey. As worthy as this journey may be, it often doesn�t get at the real dragons that one needs to meet and slay (or simply meet and roast marshmallows with).