O, dear... I screwed that up... Not sure what I did...Should I correct? Darn.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by w.c.:
It's ok Gail, re: the post. Phil or I can edit it if you want. But no problem with it the way it is unless you want it changed.

w.c.

As long as you say it's ok...No need then on my part to edit.

O, to be able to hear His whispering love, and then not to spoil it.
And, yes, I see how we (I)wont take my hands off the controls.

Quote: "And I can understand your embarrassment somewhat. My brother is physically handicapped, and as a child I was so ashamed of this in public. As an adult I still feel moments of it, but he is such a good hearted person that I have come to appreciate him even though in the past we were never close in our abusive family system. We've become close over the past few years, and it is to my benefit and his."

Ah, I appreciate hearing this.

Do you think it is possible for me to gouge out
the embarrassment? When my mind goes to that, I feel such a pain in my gut...Then my mind goes on line with the scolding. ( Backround of being shamed or scolded into submission by angry pastor) I have these ideas that if I was closer to Jesus I might flow more in love. But trying as hard as I could through the years, I haven't been able to get a divorce from my humanity. So, as to getting a sniff of my own imperfections yes yes and amen.

Here is where my heart started to dance, "But these are our openings to God. I really think He sees them differently than we do. Jesus was always lovingly bemused by those who were awkward around Him because of a pained heart." Old hymns echo inside of me as I read your post...Amazing grace, or just as I am. Lovely way to start my day.

Gail, thank you for sharing of your experiences in journeying with your husband in his illness. It's mind-boggling to me what some people are given to suffer, but heartening to hear of the blessings that can be found even in those situations. Your testimony is a reminder that nothing (not even illness and diminishment) can separate us from the love of God poured out in Jesus Christ (Rm. 8: 38-39).

Dear Gail, I loved your last line...about old hymns. I was thinking of you and your husband last night as I was listening to a pianist's rendering of old hymns on a DVD. I grew up in a protestant church, too, and for some reason that music from childhood is meaningful to me. Had I grown up in a Catholic church I'd have different memories but the same comfort in the connection to the past: since before the time of Abraham, God has been faithfully caring for His people. "In all their distress He, too, was distressed." (somewhere in Isaiah, I think)

I was reading from a hymnal as I listened. I thought of you as I read this from "Like a River Glorious":

"Every joy or trial / Falleth from above / Traced upon our dial / By the Sun of love. / We may trust Him fully / All for us to do / They who trust Him wholly / Find Him wholly true."

Okay, so it's not great poetry , but "They who trust Him wholly find Him wholly true" resonates with the remembrance of God's track record of faithfulness towards Israel and the Church.

And here is part of "Be Still, My Soul":

Be still , my soul: / Thy best, thy heav'nly Friend / Through thorny ways /Leads to joyful end

another verse:

Be still my soul: / the hour is hast'ning on / when we shall be forever with the Lord; / When disappointment, grief, and fear are gone / Sorrow forgot, love's purest joys restored. / Be still my soul / when change and tears are past / all safe and blessed we shall meet at last.

I guess it helps alot to be familiar with the music. love--Ari

Gail:

I hear your humor about imperfection, and it's such a good thing to be able to laugh at ourselves. When this is genuine we're responding to our life in conscience, and realizing our limitations. We may even be feeling something like gratitude, and how we all belong to each other as creatures in need.

I like to remember how Jesus favored the company of those who knew they were imperfect. It seems He felt received in such groups. And then there were the children, certainly not perfect, but not given to self-reproach in the way we adults do out of pride. To recieve and give love and accept the imperfections - children are good at this if we're kind and understanding of them. We need to give ourselves this room as well.

I've posted before about Jesus's sense of humor with his disciples, although we read past this stuff, either because it doesn't sound like humor or we aren't expecting Him to be humorous. He called James and John (or was it Andrew?) the "sons of thunder" for their desire to be great in heaven. And poor Peter . . . . how he did become a truly meek person. He was a real jackass in the beginning!! Tough, maybe even a bit mean at first. Arrogant, impatient, impulsive. After Jesus re-opened the wound of betrayal for healing: "Peter, do you love me?" Three times, one for each denial. Oh the heart-break in that. And then after the healing Peter is still jealous of the "other disciple whom Jesus loved," and Jesus turns and confronts him yet again, perhaps just a few moments after such a raw, heart-exposing contact. But Peter needed more of this, and his growth, to me, is evident in how he accepted Paul's rebuke for vascillating re: full acceptance of the Gentiles. After Paul's rebuke, Paul stays on in Peter's home for a few weeks! What does that tell us?

So there's a lot of room for all of us in our struggles with imperfection. The worst would be not to see the pride in our self reproach. And if we don't, somebody else will. If we're already laughing then we've probably thrown in the towel on perfection. At least for now . . . .

This message has been edited. Last edited by: w.c.,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ariel Jaffe:

Hi Ari,

O, how fun, am I being serenaded? If not, that's ok. To bad you can't see me, I am smiling ear to ear. Might chat more later
but have to get into the kitchen and rattle
those pots & pans.

And love to you, Gail

[QUOTE]Originally posted by w.c.:
w.c.

As you can see from my post to Ari, your post tickled my funny bone, such a wonder the way you write...Opens my heart. Want to say more, but someone is hungry here on the homefront.

w.c.

O, there is such freedom and hope for all of us... Your words stir, and cause me to wonder what would happen if we (I) would stop all the nonsense or posturing, what if (I) we stumbled and bumbled as the disciples did, accepted our thorns, after much prayer of course, boasted in our weaknesses...And to think in doing so, that Christ's power would rest on us.... Can't say that I am even near that... But, o, man , once upon a time, (yikes) I was an evangelical Pharisee. (Please forgive me) So, I have come a long ways baby! ( Are you too young or good to remember the slogan for Virginia Slims, It was a cigarette campaign.) Sorry, I digress.

I really want to understand what you mean; w.c.Quote: The worst would be not to see the pride in our self reproach. w.c. quote: And then there were the children, certainly not perfect, but not given to self-reproach in the way we adults do out of pride.

Would you unpack that for me? I feel like a first grader here...I don't say that with self contempt, my curiosity is genuine...Do I recall reading somewhere else, where you said something in the same vein about shame and pride? Not to see the pride in our self reproach...Yikes, I'm not sure if I see the pride...and you said that is the worst. I promise I will stop picking your brain after this! Gail

w.c.

Thank-you for taking the time to boil it down. Have I have learned some of this only in different terms? In a much milder form, are you saying it is along the lines of dissociative identity disorder? (I dislike the label.) Tell you what, I am going to spend some time reading past threads. Gail

A dear friend sent this to me this morning
Thought this was good food for thought! Enjoy and Blessings to everyone. Gail


"St. Bonaventure and others said that a poor uneducated person might well know and love God more than a great theologian or ecclesiastic. You do not resolve the God question in your head--or even in the perfection of moral response. It is resolved IN YOU, when you agree to BEAR THE MYSTERY OF GOD: God's suffering for the world and God's ecstasy in the world. . Agreeing to this task is much harder, I'm afraid than just trying to be "good."

"....how do we do it? By praying and meditating? By more silence, solitude, and sacraments? Yes to all of the above, but the most important way is to LIVE AND FULLY ACCEPT OUR OWN REALITY. This solution sounds so simple and innocuous that most of us fabricate all kinds of religious trappings to avoid taking up our own inglorious, mundane and ever-present cross......



"For some reason, it is easier to attend church services than quite simply to reverence the real--the"practice of the presence of God," as some have called it. Making this commitment doesn't demand a lot of dogmatic wrangling or magagerial support, just vigilance, desire and willingness to begin again and again. Living and accepting our own reality will not feel very spiritual. It will feel like we are on the edges rather than dealing with the essence. Thus most run toward more esoteric and dramatic postures instead of BEARING THE MYSTERY OF GOD'S SUFFERING AND JOY INSIDE THEMSELVES. But the edges of our lives--fully experienced, suffered and enjoyed--lead us back to the center and the essence.



"We do not find our own center; it finds us. Our own mind will not be able to figure it out. We collapse back into the Truth only when we are naked and free--which is probably not very often. WE DO NOT THINK OURSELVES INTO NEW WAYS OF LIVING. WE LIVE OURSELVES INTO NEW WAYS OF THINKING. In other words, our journeys around and through our realities, or "circumferences,: lead us to the CORE REALITY, where we meet both our truest self and our truest God...etc. etc...

Whoops, I probably should have given credit where it is due.
Got a book through MelCat that was on the shalomplace website--by Richard Rohr--"Everything Belongs"

w.c.

Do you and Phil ever do seminars? Or speaking engagements? You guys do all this for free? I say this with delicate hope, not wanting to sound like little miss brown noser here. It's just been like waking up to Jesus in finding your website. In His Love, Gail

O, I just read from my "A Daily Spiritual Seed...You guys obviously know where your treasure is. Sorry, if I am rambling to much.