The Anti Christ. IMO the anti Christ is anyone that chases others away from a personal relationship to Jesus. Either by their example or by their words or both.

Anybody interested in discussing this?

Tuck, I can go along with this as antichrist with a small "a."

There is that dreadful character from the book of Revelation that needs to be considered as well.
- http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304bt.asp for a Catholic perspectives.

A number of Protestant biblical scholars have extensive and vivid descriptions of the antichrist as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
Tuck, I can go along with this as antichrist with a small "a."

There is that dreadful character from the book of Revelation that needs to be considered as well.
- http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304bt.asp for a Catholic perspectives.

A number of Protestant biblical scholars have extensive and vivid descriptions of the antichrist as well.

Phil, I am not real happy with the Protestant version of the anti Christ. I think and feel that the anti Christ is at work in the Protestant Churches. I will have a look at the website that you have posted and then get back to this topic

just love,

tuck

Cool article Phil! That is the sanest version of the anti Christ that I have ever read or come across. I agree with it 100%.

I thank God everyday for Jesus, I am not real happy generally speaking with organized religion, but I sure do love Jesus.

Personally IMO I think Paris, France is the Ho of Babylon. That place is an awful place. And based on what I know about yogi stuff, I think that the anti Christ himself is going to be some version of a yogi, because the human mind has a lot of Godlike abilities if trained properly and he will also an atheist with a "you are God" theme. I also do not think that anyone who claims to be a Christian will ever be THE anti Christ himself. He will claim to be unpolluted by Christianity.

love,

tuck

Tuck, you may be right about the "spirituality" of the anti-Christ: something ecclectic and gnostic, with various signs and wonders worked, most likely with the assistance of Satan. He'll (and I do not think it will be a "she" -- though I wondered about Hilary Clinton ) also have lots of political savvy and help struggling governments overcome economic snafus. I also have a hunch that he's alive now, though I can't prove that, of course.

Catholics rarely speak of these matters; I've never heard a homily about it, and if there was mention, we get the usual explanation about Revelation being apocalyptic literature, highly symbolic, and most likely referring to the Roman persecutions of the early Christians. That's all true, I'm sure, but there seems to be more, as the article I referenced notes (and even the Catholic Catechism gives a nod to the mysterious "son of perdition"). Evangelical Christians are very interested in the topic and their preachers have articulated interesting ways of understanding it, some highly speculative (e.g., the "Left Behind" series of books and movies). Mainline Protestants (Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.) don't talk about it much and are likely to interpret Revelation in metaphoric terms -- as an expression of hope for the future. Luther thought the Popes were the anti-Christ, but most Lutherans have softened that view (thankfully so!), the Missouri Synod Lutherans being an exception (as in many other things).

Driving between Wichita and Great Bend as I do every week, I have often listened to the teaching of the great Southern Baptist evangelist and pastor, Adrian Rogers. I say this with the utmost respect for the man, though I do disagree with some of his theology. His enthusiasm for the Christian message and his love for Christ are undeniable, however, and he was (died a few years ago) a very gifted preacher. I recently heard a series by him on Revelation, during which he reflected deeply on the meaning of the anti-Christ. See http://www.lwf.org/site/News2?...41&news_iv_ctrl=1381 for what appears to be an outline of his notes. A google search will bring up more info by him on this topic.

Phil what you say about symbolic is interesting (I hope I am on topic here ). To me the writer of Revelation was seeing things that were real but describing these things relative to what was known at the time and that what he was doing was an interesting challenge. Example: If you were a primitive person who had never seen an automobile and you saw one, then how would you explain it to others that are also primitive who had never seen an automobile?

Another example (this is sort of a right brain left brain thingy and please forgive me for that): The description of the Beast in Revelation is the formula for a fuel that is a cheap source of energy that no other source can compete with. The question is, "Is what this person that is looking into the future actually describing a chemical formula or is it just a coincidence and he was describing something political or even maybe both?"

It is an energy source that does work. The problem is that one, it screws up the established energy providers that are an important part of world economy and two, our Christian Bible says that it is evil.

The locus he is talking about are helicopters, the things that sting at one end and roar at the other are tanks. The kings of the east are the Islamic nations that are east of Iraq. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

I guess that everybody has their opinion on what Revelation is about and the above is mine (left brain right brain )

love,

tuck

quote:

Originally posted by Tucker:
... And based on what I know about yogi stuff, I think that the anti Christ himself is going to be some version of a yogi, because the human mind has a lot of Godlike abilities if trained properly and he will also an atheist with a "you are God" theme. ..

I've thought along the same lines. You might be interested in a brief testimony I share here about a super-powerful yogi:

https://shalomplace.org/eve/for...0765/m/286304744/p/1

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
Luther thought the Popes were the anti-Christ, but most Lutherans have softened that view (thankfully so!), the Missouri Synod Lutherans being an exception (as in many other things).

Um, yeah, it's kind of bizarre that's still on the books with the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod--I do hear LC-MS pastors say they think that's going to removed soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Shasha:

quote:

Originally posted by Tucker:
... And based on what I know about yogi stuff, I think that the anti Christ himself is going to be some version of a yogi, because the human mind has a lot of Godlike abilities if trained properly and he will also an atheist with a "you are God" theme. ..

I've thought along the same lines. You might be interested in a brief testimony I share here about a super-powerful yogi:

https://shalomplace.org/eve/for...0765/m/286304744/p/1

Shasha, I read the whole topic and found it very interesting. The average person has no idea what that kind of training can do if one has the aptitude for it. Talk about the royal temptation of Satan. What is funny is that some witches and shamans can do it also and it is with practically the same training. But the thing I have discovered over the years is that a simple prayer to God in the name of Jesus Christ can undo anything that they can do.

love,

tuck

quote:

Originally posted by Tucker:
...
Shasha, I read the whole topic and found it very interesting. The average person has no idea what that kind of training can do if one has the aptitude for it. Talk about the royal temptation of Satan. What is funny is that some witches and shamans can do it also and it is with practically the same training. But the thing I have discovered over the years is that a simple prayer to God in the name of Jesus Christ can undo anything that they can do.

love,

tuck

When you say, "witches and shamans can do it also," what do you mean by it? Do you mean controlling other people's states of mind/consciousness using their own energy, mantra initiations, that sort of thing?

There are many people who been in the inner circle with some yogis who come out suggesting the guru is satanically influenced. Yes, playing with energies of creation is very dangerous. (See why I was worried about you and 'lord shiva'? Not that you want to get into that. )

Who was the guy who exposed the sexual abuse around Sai Baba? I think Mt said he knew this man...? Anyway, he converted to Christianity, and in his book, whose title I forgot, he shares that he believes SB was an anti-christ. These guys, and me too perhaps, are often perceived as delusional, or at least just speaking from a place of fear because they were burned by their bad experiences.

I met Conny Larsson who wrote a book about SaiBaba, but I don't think he converted to Christianity. Maybe there's another guy, too.
I'm sure there was some evil energy coming out of SB. This guy Conny told me of several situation in which unexplained things happen when he was exposing SB's sins. E.g. when he was in a benedictine convent in Poland with a talk about SB, a heater fell off of a wall in a middle of the talk. I'm usually sceptic about this sort of thing, but in this particular case I'm more eager to believe. I generally avoided talking about SB, because I always would feel a very unfamiliar kind of fear and energy when I did so.
But now, fortunately, SB is in the hands of the living God.

quote:

Originally posted by Shasha:

quote:

Originally posted by Tucker:
...
Shasha, I read the whole topic and found it very interesting. The average person has no idea what that kind of training can do if one has the aptitude for it. Talk about the royal temptation of Satan. What is funny is that some witches and shamans can do it also and it is with practically the same training. But the thing I have discovered over the years is that a simple prayer to God in the name of Jesus Christ can undo anything that they can do.

love,

tuck

When you say, "witches and shamans can do it also," what do you mean by it? Do you mean controlling other people's states of mind/consciousness using their own energy, mantra initiations, that sort of thing?

There are many people who been in the inner circle with some yogis who come out suggesting the guru is satanically influenced. Yes, playing with energies of creation is very dangerous. (See why I was worried about you and 'lord shiva'? Not that you want to get into that. )

Who was the guy who exposed the sexual abuse around Sai Baba? I think Mt said he knew this man...? Anyway, he converted to Christianity, and in his book, whose title I forgot, he shares that he believes SB was an anti-christ. These guys, and me too perhaps, are often perceived as delusional, or at least just speaking from a place of fear because they were burned by their bad experiences.

Shasha, I mean exactly what I said I had a voo doo priestess curse me with the seven dooms one time. She shut down my entire will to live. Yes I pissed her off and it was my fault and yes I had to go to God to get it solved, which I did on the fast track. It is amazing what some of these people can do and my suggestion is to stay as far away from them and the occult in general as possible. Sometimes just because one does not believe something, does not mean that it is not real.

Because this stuff is real is why I do not like to talk about this stuff, unless it is to help someone understand why they should not get into it.

just love,

tuck

Right, me too, Tuck. Gotta be careful if/how we talk about it!
Seems we only want to engage in discussion if God's grace is upon us to somehow build up the Church, like you note.