From Daily Seed November 15

An erroneous translation in the past said that 'The kingdom of God is within you." The more correct translation is "The kingdom of God is among you." The implication of the new translation is that God's Spirit is most active in our relationships with one another.

Now that's a HUGE clarification for me. In fact,
in some recent reading it was quoted the other way. When I got involved with a lady who was very
into New Age stuff, she kept throwing out the line
"the kingdom of God is within." Or maybe she even would say "the kingdom of heaven is within you." Either way, I always found her implications confusing. She seemed to be saying that I had the power within me to do anything---to heal myself (and maybe others) to have out-of-body experiences, to be able to communicate with
spiritual beings, etc. And she told me that the reason I couldn't do these things was because I didn't BELIEVE that I could. She also claimed to be able to channel spiritual beings, although I never really saw an real evidence of this. She also told me that she took hormones because she didn't like having hot flashes. I never could figure out why she couldn't "heal" herself of those hot flashes---after all, she seemed to expect me to be able to heal myself of my horrible headaches.

All in all, the time I communicated with her was a very unsettling time for me. Most of the time I felt lousy about myself, because I couldn't do
what she claimed I was supposed to be able to do.
And I sometimes felt like she was laughing at me, for being so backward in my spiritual pursuits.

My more current reading tells me that I am made in the image and likeness of God, and that is something to focus on, rather than to think that I don't need God.......that I can do it all by myself, since the kingdom of God is within.

Anne

Anne, you are right, we cannot do it by ourselves. To think that we can would be the same as thinking we are gods.

It sounds to me as if your friend is a bit confused.... turning the helium in the balloon into the balloon, if you will. It's the helium that makes the balloon fly, the balloon cannot fly alone.

Like the air in the balloon, I do believe God is within as well as without but I also know that I am not the air... Without the air I am simply a rather floppy piece of rubber.

Hi Wanda,

I agree with you. You know......I have this hobby that involves some drawing/artwork. And every time I finish drawing something, I am both exhilarated with the final product, but at the same time I am in somewhat in awe of what I have created. It's like, it came out of me, and yet I can't take total credit for it. I know that I have created it, and yet I also know that God is involved in my creating. Make sense??

BTW.....my "friend" felt that she had "outgrown"
religion.



Anne

Originally posted by Anne:
From Daily Seed November 15

An erroneous translation in the past said that 'The kingdom of God is within you." The more correct translation is "The kingdom of God is among you." The implication of the new translation is that God's Spirit is most active in our relationships with one another.

Hi Anne,

I'm curious about the new translation you quoted from the Daily Seed. Where did it come from?

I tend to think that the kingdom is both within and among us....


My more current reading tells me that I am made in the image and likeness of God, and that is something to focus on, rather than to think that I don't need God.......that I can do it all by myself, since the kingdom of God is within.

Anne,

I could be reading this wrong but I don't think that saying the kingdom of God is within means that you don't need God or you can do it all by yourself. Anyway, that's not the take on all this that I get. Imho, we always need God. God is the one who helps us access that kingdom within, the one who motivates us and gives us the desire to go there.

My understanding of the kingdom of God is that it is within us and it begins now. We don't have to wait until we die to get to it. It's a state of consciousness, among other things.....It's not something external figures can control or prohibit. It's our responsibility to tune into it.
If our radio isn't on the correct wavelength, how can we pick up the station?

I guess the translation you quoted doesn't appeal to me because it calls the other translation 'erroneous' and seems to try to supplant it. I disagree and feel the need to speak up. So, now you have it.....my understanding of the Kingdom.....



qt

uraqt and all, the translations are as follows:

"The coming of the kingdom of God does not admit of observation and there will be no one to say, 'Look here! Look there!' For, you must know, the kingdom of God is among you." (Lk. 17: 21, Jerusalm Bible)

". . . is already in your midst." (New American Bible)

". . . is within you" (Living Bible -- a paraphrasing of other Scriptures"

" . . .is within you" (King James)

" . . .is in the midst of you." (Catholic Vulgate)

Most Biblical scholars today concur that the phrase Jesus used was meant to indicate a presence both within and among. The emphasis on within contributed to a privatized spirituality while "among" honors Jesus' promise that where two or more are gathered in his name, he is in our midst." Wanda's air in the baloon analogy makes a lot of sense here.

Phil

Anne... "I know that I have created it, and yet I also know that God is involved in my creating."

I know exactly what you mean and yes, it makes perfect sense to me! I feel a little sorry for your friend... it would be so hard to have to be in control all of the time. Personally, I rather like being able to hand off to God.

Phil... thanks.. the balloon analogy probably came because today I feel a lot like a balloon - stretched out in too many different directions... Figured perhaps God was trying to tell me something so after I wrote it I took some time for meditation. Got a second wind so to speak.. and am off and running again.

Question for all: Do you find that when your life or your day gets out of balance - when you spend all or most of your time in meditation or in study or in work or in relaxation that you feel just a bit disjointed? Lately I have been trying to order my life a bit and have decided that it can be almost impossible some days, but on the days that I manage it, I feel so much better. Any thoughts?

Phil,

Thanks for the quote clarification. It helps a great deal.


Anne,

I think one of the other things you mentioned was the seeming insensitivity of your friend. In Ken Wilber's book, "Grace and Grit," he mentions the way some people reacted to his wife, Treya's, terminal illness. If you have some time, you might want to look at it, I think you might like it. He mentions the way some people seem to go to extremes of blaming others for their illness....and he also goes into detail about how different philosophies and religions view illness. Lots of variations there, too.

Hope your headaches leave forever.

qt

Wanda wrote:
Question for all: Do you find that when your life or your day gets out of balance - when you spend all or most of your time in meditation or in study or in work or in relaxation that you feel just a bit disjointed? Lately I have been trying to order my life a bit and have decided that it can be almost impossible some days, but on the days that I manage it, I feel so much better. Any thoughts?

Exercise helps me Wanda. Movement of any kind.
Swimming. Walking. I like to get involved in an activity that allows me to become totally absorbed in it. Crafts, etc. Then, it seems like my unconscious deals with my 'stuff' and I feel better. Hope this helps!

qt

Hello Everyone,

Another way that I like to think of the Kingdom of God is that as followers of Jesus we are supposed to implement (or try to anyway) the Kingdom here and now by following the Way of Jeus such as feeding the hungry, healing the sick etc.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Anne:
You know......I have this hobby that involves some drawing/artwork. And every time I finish drawing something, I am both exhilarated with the final product, but at the same time I am in somewhat in awe of what I have created. It's like, it came out of me, and yet I can't take total credit for it. I know that I have created it, and yet I also know that God is involved in my creating. Make sense??

Anne,

You might find the writings of Matthew Fox on Creation Spirituality interesting with respect to your experience with art. the easiest to start with is entitled Creation Spirituality.

John

At first this may seem like a bit of tangent, but, it will eventually blend with the discussion to form a nice point. To me the history of ideas outlines the ever-changing world people ascribe to their mental and emotional lives. When Heidigger and Sartre espoused their philosophy of freedom (more Sartre than Heidigger) they were th first "serious" thinkers to propose these ideas to the current of world thought. I think it's no coincidence that LSD was being formulated at exactly the same time Sartre penned his works, seeing as that led to the next generation's psychobiological exploration of "freedom of mind". When the hippie movement began to fashion the groundwork for the current-day new age movement with its psychedelic mysticism people transferred the existential prophecies of "absolute freedom" into a hazy philosophy of spiritual empowerment. The flaw is that people fail to recognize that the "absolute freedom" is a condition based on a determinism wholly dependent on a transcendental idealism....something Sartre denounced in many places. Because new agers overlook their predecessors fairly strict conditions of truth, there's a problem.

That was quite a mouthful, Will. You sound very well-read and reflective.

The flaw is that people fail to recognize that the "absolute freedom" is a condition based on a determinism wholly dependent on a transcendental idealism....something Sartre denounced in many places. Because new agers overlook their predecessors fairly strict conditions of truth, there's a problem.

There's lots of problems with some of what's called new age, but lots of good, too. I think it depends on what part of the movement you're looking at. Seems you're talking about its high degree of ecclecticism with regard to the issue of truth,here. Am I hearing you correctly?

Those are some pretty high-powered sentences you write!

Phil

Yes Phil, I was speaking pretty directly towards the point of truth in the context of new age theology and thought. New Agers believe, in my understanding, that truth is a relative absolute (as much of a contradiction as they sounds to be). In other words, they hold that freedom is the primary condition of being human. It is an exageration of the truth that we do possess free will, yet, the exageration shadows the fact that our freedom is dependent upon the circumstances from which we choose our truths. Another way of analogizing this notion is that people believe whatever truth is relative to their sitution never realizing that their situtions then become the determinant of their reality. To me, that's pretty scary because we then have no power but to accept or deny what's put before us as if God can only do what we let God do. Now, it's true that God can only work in our lives as much as we allow God to, but, to limit the power of God to what we believe to be true and or real....that's another story altogether. A story I'd much rather not contemplate. To tie all this into the idea of the kingdom of God, I believe there is a concept going on with the kingdom of God people overlook sometimes. In 1 John it says that he that is in me is greater than he that is in the world. While I am taking this fairly literally, that means that within us is a power greater than is in the world when we believe in Christ and do the will of God. To me, that supports the notion that the kingdom of God is within quite nicely. I am not trying to diminish the idea you pointed out that there are two takes, a personal "within" and a public "among". Both, when blended together, form a marvelous call to live love. Yet, that sort of juggling act is certainly an act of faith and miraculous work that only God can arrange through those who truly give themselves over to a greater power than they themselves possess. To do so, in my mind, is to act as a servant of the kingdom of God, one whose being expresses the majestic presence of the Holy Spirit. Putting the new age ideology beside the Christian framework to do a little compare-and-contrast leaves the new agers lacking in perspective although there is some truth present within their framework. Yet, building on truth, rather than destroying with falsehood seems to be a way to turn some of the ecclecticism that appeals to the Christian mind that seeks freshness of spirit in the novelty of artificial attempts at truth.

Ahh, if I'm hearing you rightly, I totally agree. Let's not absolutize freedom, but recognize how it is experienced and exercised in the context of whatever paradigm we work out of. And let's not limit God's work to our limited understanding of truth. I know you are saying more, but those are the points I'm hearing emphasized.

So many good, deep insights you express in such a short space.

Phil

Phil writes:

Let's not absolutize freedom, but recognize how it is experienced and exercised in the context of whatever paradigm we work out of. And let's not limit God's work to our limited understanding of truth.

Yes, that's the essence of it. People have mistakenly come to believe that their own personal experiences of truth are a complete expression of universal truth. Ultimately, only God possesses that insight. Seeing as how we need to "recognize how [absolute freedom] is experienced and exercised in the context of whatever paradigm we work out of" it is always important to remember that whatever truth we experience, while true nonetheless, is only a relative, partial glimpse of the eternal, absolute truth. This includes our understanding of freedom.
By keeping such things as this in mind it is then possible to fully experience the kingdom of God. Another thing you touch on that is very important is the idea of limits. The limits we we set on our beliefs-whether out of fear, hate, sin, or any other negativity-are the walls we set up to block God from entering our lives. Remember, "with God nothing is impossible." To find the kingdom within or among us can certainly occur, provided we understand and seek it with the right heart, mind, and, spirit. "Absolute freedom" as the new agers advocate, to me, seems to put both God and the individual in the power seat. The natural extension of that logic is in fact impossibility itself, because there is only one source of divine power. The question to then be asked is whether it is God or the self.

I hope this isn't too simplistic. I never really saw a need to choose whether the kingdom was 'within' or 'among'. To me, the kingdom within is that place of meeting God, our deep inner self that is united to all creation in God. To find God within ,then, is to find Him among all. Can finding God's kingdom be divided whether it is in or among? If you find one, you find the other.
Peace,
Ana

In my little post, I was addressing the question of consciousness. To be "within", to me, would be a personal, private experience where God communicates through inexpressible ways, whereas "among" would be a public experience. That is to say, I am conscious of a public experience of God in ways that are different from a private experience. I was not trying to suggest that either one mode of experiencing God's presence is better or worse, more desirable or less desirable than the other...merely different sides of the same thing. Ana, you wrote, "I never really saw a need to choose whether the kingdom was 'within' or 'among'. To me, the kingdom within is that place of meeting God, our deep inner self that is united to all creation in God. To find God within ,then, is to find Him among all. Can finding God's kingdom be divided whether it is in or among? If you find one, you find the other." I agree, and, find what you have to say very meaningful and profound. There is a double-action, where, by going within ourselves, as individuals, we become more capable of related to others because we come to recognize the hand God has on each of our lives and the lives of all those around us. In my own experience, I find that my consciousness shifts from one mode to the other when I return from that deep place to the world of others. I do not necessarily need to choose between finding the kingdom one way or the other,
I find that my consciousness does it for me.