Does this ever happen to anybody else?? You read a book, and you're VERY excited about it, and so you lend it to somebody, and they take the next TWO YEARS to read it!! Obviously they are not nearly as excited about it as you are, right? But, you can't ask for the book back, because they claim to STILL BE reading it

This is a book that you devoured in a week, you know???

The problem is....I need to have certain books around to (as Phil puts it) "feed my spirit." I haven't had any such books around me lately (I had lent them out) and I missed them!! So, I bought myself extra copies and I'm not going to lend them to anybody!

One book that I really enjoy is called "The Shattered Lantern" by Ronald Rolheiser. Here is a quote from this book that I like to think about: "We need to read the signs of the times, to be able to see in the conspiracy of accidents within ordinary life, the finger of God."

I had just such an experience today.

The day before I had met with a therapist to try to deal with some guilt issues of mine. Today, I was driving to a neighboring town to a hair appointment. Much of the emotion of yesterday's session kept coming back to me. It was like a faucet that I couldn't turn off. I kept thinking, Anne, you need to get a hold of yourself. You can't go on like this. This is ridiculous etc.

Anyway, I got to the hair appointment, and the lady who cuts my hair said that she was running late. She was cutting an elderly lady's hair, and the lady was in a wheelchair, and it was taking longer than she had expected. Did I have an errand to run or something?? I told her I needed to buy some thank-you cards, and that I could go and do that. She thanked me for being patient.

Soooo, I walked across the street and down a block or so to a pharmacy. I went in, bought the thank-you cards, and headed back. My back was already to the store when I heard somebody call my name. It was the wife of the husband/wife team that owned the pharmacy. I had taught several of their children years ago. She was an acquaintance, not someone that I knew well, but somebody that I respected.

I walked back to meet her. Our conversation led from one thing to another and before you knew it, she was telling me about HER guilt issues, which were VERY similar to mine. As we shared our stories I felt much less self-absorbed. I felt a sense of community with this woman and my meeting with her was somehow very reassuring. And I knew that there would be no faucet of tears on the drive home.

I also knew that God was speaking to me through this encounter. I was able to see "God's finger" in the conspiracy of accidents in my ordinary life. After all, what are the chances that the hairdresser would have been running late, that I would have chosen that particular store, and that the wife/owner would have been crossing the parking lot at that particular time???

And what was God saying to me, through the encounter with this woman? I think He was saying, "Anne, it's all right. It will be all right."

Anne, that was wonderful sharing, and a great reminder of something Henri Nouwen once wrote, "My interruptions are my work."

We do have our plans, and that's fine, so long as we are open to that "finger of God," as you noted.

For me, just this morning, it was wanting to get through my e-mail, put Daily Seed together for the week, and be done with all my usual round of "computer stuff" so I could have tomorrow off, away from computers. There was an email from someone needing support and encouragement that I couldn't postpone, however, which at first was annoying, but turned out to be a blessing as I took the time to reply to it. I was led to a few quotes to share with this person that I have included in Daily Seed, hopefully to the benefit of many more. I doubt that I would have thought of using those quotes had I not had that e-mail. Perhaps God wants someone else to read them? Who knows. We can't always see the consequences of our actions.

Let's hear from others about how you've had similar experiences.

Phil

Thanks, Phil. After I shared that experience I felt rather foolish. I thought it might sound kinda "hokey" to somebody else. Obviously it can't have the impact on others that it had on me. I mean......there's NO doubt in my mind that God was speaking to me through that incident.

The premise of Rolheiser's book is that God is always around us......and speaks to us in many ways. But we are often so preoccupied with our own "agendas" that we miss it. We just aren't paying attention.

He ends the book with some beautitudes of his own. This one repeats the idea that I was so taken with:

"Blessed are those who learn to see the finger of God in the conspiracy of accidents that make up their lives; they shall be rewarded with daily miracles."

Isn't that a powerful idea?

OH....good posts! Anne thanks for sharing that and no way do I consider it hokey....although I understand your wariness..lol. I personally do not believe in coincidence in any form or fashion. I've never read the book you mention, but I agree with it. God IS in everything around us. For me, each moment truly does contain something of Him...or totality of Him...or thoughts of Him, etc. I've had encounters like you describe there very often and to me the best part of it is that it brings me to praise of our Father and His amazing ways He considers us and our needs. It's a wonderful and holy thing isn't it?

As Terri noted, not at all silly. It's actually a very profound truth you're point us to that has been described in other places as synchronicities--how things come together for a certain purpose. I think the kind of intention and energy we carry because of our journey in faith draws us to other people and circumstances that can help us and we them under the orchestration of the Holy Spirit. Very powerful stuff, here.

Phil

Hokey Anne... not at all... not even a little bit.
"Blessed are those who learn to see the finger of God in the conspiracy of accidents that make up their lives; they shall be rewarded with daily miracles."

I also do not believe in coincidences... in fact I really like this statement... the conspiracy of accidents....
I think most people... me included for a very long time... don't recognize these for what they are... the hand of God reaching out to touch us...
Similar experiences.. I would hardly know where to start...
You aren't foolish or hokey... you are blessed. Thanks for sharing... reminding us to pay attention... to look for the miracles.
Peace,
Wanda

I've got to agree with Wanda who wrote,
I think most people...don't recognize these for what they are. It's hard, at first, to recognize those annoying sidetracks as gifts. When we're trying to get ourselves somewhere because it's really important, and, the traffic lights are conspiring quite successfully against me, I laugh now, thinking, God's working on my patience. Or, when I pray about something and later that day have five instances with the same exact words appearing in differenet places...I laugh and recignize the almost surreal nature of God's hand actively moving my life. Ultimately, I realize that, as I heard a great movie one-liner this weekend, "the realer you get the more unreal life gets." When we get closer to God, the more highlighted all our actions, our thoughts, our hopes are with a calming strangeness. Much in my heart and spirit suggest God's hand can weave a web of miraculous events in our lives if we are open to what is happening instead of trying so hard to make things happen. By acting as the needle in God's wildly-woven design, we can be a part of this beautiful work of art called life, God is trying to make.

"Much in my heart and spirit suggest God's hand can weave a web of miraculous events in our lives if we are open to what is happening instead of trying so hard to make things happen."

You know... this is so hard to believe unless it has happened to you or to someone you know...

A friend... going through a very bad time... distraught, depressed... all of that... This person was very skeptical of the whole notion of God... and more so of the idea of God intervening in their life. Anyhow they got sick... the flu... but - and this is the biggie.. they quit smoking... 2-3 packs a day for 30 years to zero... no withdrawl.. no desire... just quit as if they had never started.... without trying to quit. When they told me they told me that God had given them a miracle... point blank... straight out... said they had nothing to do with it at all... didn't ask for it... was just given the gift.
I guess the point I want to make is that sometimes.. God acts in such a way that we have no choice but to acknowledge his hand in our lives. There simply is no other explanation.

Sometimes maybe he has to hit us over the head.... just to get our attention. Question - do you think that God speaks to us through sorrow as well as joy - or in other words is all suffering bad?
Wanda

Sometimes maybe he has to hit us over the head.... just to get our attention. Question - do you think that God speaks to us through sorrow as well as joy - or in other words is all suffering bad?
Hey Wanda,
Yes...I absolutely believe that God speaks to us through sorrow as well as joy....and no, I do not think all suffering is bad. I know this from personal experience from the past when I was so ill and lost several family members close together, but more recently through experiences with a dear friend of mine who is extremely ill. He embraces his suffering in a way that amazes me and anyone else who knows him. It has been a means of taking him into a deep spiritual life that includes mystic type experiences. The scripture states that we are to rejoice in tribulation, to bear it with patience, that we will be given comfort. I truly believe that we are allowed suffering at times in order to bring us to a most sacred place. Only in suffering are we completely powerless...completely....and in this, God reaches down to show us His hand...His comfort....His love....His strength. My friend, who is Catholic, also offers up his suffering as a means of sacrifice to God for the salvation of others. I have seen incredible and astounding results from this. It appears that God is receiving this sacrifice with love, just as my friend is offering it in love.
In my own case, my illness and subsequent suffering was also used to bring me to a place that I call a "spiritual plane" where I constantly stand in awe of God. I know without doubt that He is absolutely more powerful than anything that I will ever face. It is sheer joy to me to spend hour upon hour just thinking on Him, letting scripture run through my head and being so caught up in it that the world around me ceases to exist at times. I now know and believe His love in a way I desired my entire life...BUT..I don't believe I would have ever known it in this way if I had not gone through sorrow and tribulation. Let me point out, however, that that is for me...that doesn't mean I'm saying it has to be that way for everyone. It just is that this is the means that was needed in my case.
Ah..I could go on and on about this because it seems that in modern day churches and messages I seem to hear more "be a Christian and all your troubles disappear" kind of messages and that just isn't so. It's that the troubles now become blessings which result in a greater joy than never having them would have.
I am so happy for your friend...this sounds like one of those things where God decided to blow their socks off...and then smile...;o).

Jk... thank you.. I agree totally. Often times it is in the midst of suffering that I think we are brought to God... I have seen this happen over and over again.

"Ah..I could go on and on about this because it seems that in modern day churches and messages I seem to hear more "be a Christian and all your troubles disappear" kind of messages and that just isn't so. It's that the troubles now become blessings which result in a greater joy than never having them would have."

This type of mentality... the feel good churches I call them... are so destructive.... (my opinion).. not because they don't bring people to Christ because they do but because they don't give them a very solid foundation... all sugar no meat. Then when the floor falls out people are left at times in a worse place than when they started... obviously because bad things happen, it must be my fault...God is punishing me... the Job syndrome... not understanding that suffering can be holy.

"I am so happy for your friend...this sounds like one of those things where God decided to blow their socks off...and then smile...;o)."
Me too... it is so great... all they keep saying is, "it is sooooo Awesome!" And of course they are right!

Peace,
Wanda

"the feel good churches"
I agree heartily that they do much damage, for the very reasons you give there. Also..I've often wondered...in bringing God down to this "good ole boy" place where He's just our buddy, is it possible that the result is a sense that God maybe ISN'T all powerful? Does it then place that believer in the position where he/she has no comfort, no assurance, no total dependence on God? And if that's the case, then maybe that's why their foundation crumbles so easily? I'm not certain, but it seems that if we remove the awe and reverence of God....if we remove the knowledge that there will indeed be suffering, but He is more powerful than the sufferings...if we reduce Him to human understanding...then not only do we discredit (and perhaps even blaspheme) God, but we do a great disservice to those who come to Him.
Many folks hate the book of Job...I personally love it. I particularly like to read the last part where God tells Job just Who He is...even though it might appear that God is angry in the whirlwind where He asks Job if Job...made the mountains, caused the sun to rise, stopped the seas...and if he did...then show God how...I see it as an affirmation of the greatest kind that God is GOD..He loves me, yes, He is patient with me, yes, He is beyond my comprehension, absolutely...BUT...He is still God and I need not worry about things...and I dare not slap Him on the back and call Him a good ole boy. However, at the same time I am not afraid to come crying to Him for answers, support, love...all that. Most of all though..I worship Him and stand in awe of His majesty.
Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking, I don't know. But I just really feel disheartened in my spirit when I see how God is treated at times...and how little people are really taught about Him and His ways..and His tremdendous sacrifice.
Something else I've wondered about is that scripture tells us we are being conformed to the image of Christ. How is it that folks think we can be conformed to the image of Christ and not suffer? It just seems logical to me that if we acknowledge Christ sufferings..we should expect sufferings as well.
Here's another question. If people are brought to the place where they are ready to respond to Christ's call..and do, and then are fed only the sugar coated version of our Christian walk, and then fall away because of trials and tribulations...is someone accountable for that? Does it fall under the scripture where Jesus refers to how we care for little ones (little ones possibly meaning also, the new Christian)? Will it be better for a mill stone to be hung around the neck and the teachers drowned in the lake? I wonder about that one a lot.
Just a few thoughts this morning...lol.
Terri

Whoa Terri....

Do we ever think alike on this one! What I can't understand is how they can all ignore the scriptures that flat out tell us that it will not necessarily be easy ... What do they think Christ means when he says take up the the cross and follow me? Reading Lewis's Mere Christianity: "Christ say, 'Give me All. I don't want so much of your time and so much of your money and so much of your work: I want You. I have not come to torment your natural self, but to kill it." - or Bonhoeffer's Cost of Discipleship... from the original twelve disciples to the disciples of today... they all suffer in one way or another... and yet they count the cost as nothing.
How can you possibly experience the joy of Easter unless you have also experienced the despair of Good Friday?
I too get frustrated when I think of how little real teaching goes on in many churches. But.. you can't forget God's ability to do a little directing and teaching of his own. Most of what I have learned was not learned "in church" but through interaction with others and this crazy desire/need to learn more. Question: What brought you to this journey?
Your question is a good one... "If people are brought to the place where they are ready to respond to Christ's call..and do, and then are fed only the sugar coated version of our Christian walk, and then fall away because of trials and tribulations...is someone accountable for that?" I certainly hope not, if the teaching is done in all sincerity..... thinking of how little we all know... and how easily we could lead someone astray in our ignorance... I certainly hope not!
Peace,
Wanda

Wanda! I think we must be kindred spirits on this..lol. I, like you, didn't learn what I was seeking for from church. Not that church is a bad thing, that's not what I'm saying at all. I got the basics and was frustrated for years and years. I felt like I was speaking a foreign language sometimes. I don't know about you, but it made me feel very isolated at times. For nearly 2 decades I searched and searched for SOMETHING that would answer the questions that kept popping up in my spirit. God was putting things there that I wasn't quite sure how to interpret since I'd never really been taught about listening to the teachings of the Holy Spirit. Then one beautiful Lent season, I ordered booklets for the congregation which were devotionals. They were taken from seminars given by Henri Nouwen. It was like..oh my...like suddenly a door had opened and I found myself at home. It was one of the richest blessings I've ever had. In this particular booklet it was about the Return of the Prodigal..and he mentioned the "dark night of the soul". The things he said were like someone had taken all my thoughts, questions, inner experiences and suddenly said...here ya go...follow this trail and your desire to know Me deeper will be filled. That started a massive search on the internet for anything by St. John of the Cross...which led to other writings...which led to still other writings. At the same time, I became acquainted with a young man online who was friends with a Benedictine monk..we were introduced via email...and off it went..lol. I've been reading and visiting with people ever since who are connected to my soul. That's exactly what led me to Spiritual Seed, which led me here...thanks Phil (This being one of those instances mentioned in the very start of this thread...coincidence?..no way!)
My journey started simply because I KNEW there was more out there than I was hearing..my soul and spirit absolutely yearned for it...you know? Ah...God is good!!
And I'm like you, I too, certainly hope noone is held accountable. I know that God is just and He knows that we are mere humans without full understanding.
Another dear monk friend told me once that when we do things with purity of heart and purity of faith (childlike) God honors it because in our ignorance, we don't realize mistakes we make. I agree with him. Otherwise, God would be more like humans...don't you think?
Thanks for the opportunity to write all this. It's a dynamic topic
Terri

Hi, all. I love this thread! I haven't been on here in quite some time, and reading this thread was like a nice long drink of cold water. So perhaps "the finger of God" is at work in just my coming here at a time when the thread was still semi-current. I thought of a couple quotes as I read through the thread. One is from Proverbs, and it says something like, "A man's mind plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps." Another is from GODSPELL, in the section with the quotes of all the philosophers, so perhaps someone will recognize it and tell us who said it. It's speaking of God, and says, "He is often seen in one thing small; conversely He is often missed in many." I wonder how many times I miss what God would say to me just because I'm too busy to stop and listen, or to reflect on something afterwards that seemed to have special energy. I agree with everyone that there are no such things as coincidences.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
[qb]Anne, that was wonderful sharing, and a great reminder of something Henri Nouwen once wrote, "My interruptions are my work."

We do have our plans, and that's fine, so long as we are open to that "finger of God," as you noted.

For me, just this morning, it was wanting to get through my e-mail, put Daily Seed together for the week, and be done with all my usual round of "computer stuff" so I could have tomorrow off, away from computers. There was an email from someone needing support and encouragement that I couldn't postpone, however, which at first was annoying, but turned out to be a blessing as I took the time to reply to it. I was led to a few quotes to share with this person that I have included in Daily Seed, hopefully to the benefit of many more. I doubt that I would have thought of using those quotes had I not had that e-mail. Perhaps God wants someone else to read them? Who knows. We can't always see the consequences of our actions.

Let's hear from others about how you've had similar experiences.

Phil[/qb]

Peggy,

Nice to hear from you again.

Anne

I second Anne's welcome, Peggy. Good to have you here.

A Scripture quote that comes to mind here is Rm. 8: 28, "For those who love God, all things conspire for the good." The quote you shared reminded me of this one.

Anne, I printed off this whole segment and on Sunday took the time to reflect on the entries and shared them with another person who also found the input calling. Asking where one sees the finger of God does make me push the issue deeper. This morning, I was talking to someone who was telling me about our grim world. She was concerned about whether her business would make it through this tough financial time, about two family members who are very ill but have minimal financial resources, about the stock market, about the farmers who are suffering drought, grasshoppers, spider mites, etc and losing their farms, and about a number of other things. I listened and affirmed that these are indeed tough times and then asked her, "Where do you find the finger of God in all of this?" She said rather disgustedly, "Finger? I need God's whole hand!" We paused and then both began to laugh. In reflecting on this, we concluded that God's finger was found in our ability to laugh and that as Christians we know God is with us and has carried us before and that our task is to trust and give hope to ourselves and others.

Louise and All,

Remember that book that I mentioned at the beginning of this thread. How I was frustrated because I would be so excited about a book and want to share it with somebody else.....but then the book never got returned and it took the person like....10 years to read it! <G>

Well, the very book I was complaining about in the first entry of this thread found its way into the hands of somebody who needed it!! The book really hadn't "clicked" with the person I had lent it to.....BUT...she lent it to another friend of mine (unbeknownst to me). I only found this out a few weeks ago. Anyway, the book was EXACTLY what this other friend needed at the time. In other words....the book *spoke* to her and gave her just what she needed to hear at that particular time.

God's finger again, I suppose.... So much for my complaining about unreturned books, huh??

Anne