I have been posting about concerns I have regarding the possible election of Trump on various social media, where there is considerably more interaction than on these old-time discussion boards. Feel free to add to the discussion here, however, or to friend me on Facebook if you'd like to join the discussions there.
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- posted on Facebook: June 26, 2024

Hey everyone, LET'S HAVE A DEBATE BETWEEN BIDEN AND TRUMP,
- and let's pretend Trump didn't lie about election fraud in 2020,
- and didn't lose over 60 court cases trying to prove fraud,
- and didn't try to stage a violent coup to overturn that election,
- and didn't refuse to intervene on the violence for over 3 hrs.,
- and didn't pressure VP Pence to go against the Constitution,
- then didn't steal hundreds of classified and top-secret documents when he left,
- and didn't hide them and refuse to return them, then lie about all that.

Let's forget all that. It doesn't matter. Ancient history, right?
- besides, Trump has repented of all that post-2020 nonsense, right?
- he'd never do anything like that again, right?
- right?

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Just to frame this another way: this debate and election isn't the usual D vs R situation. I never posted on that stuff before Trump and was annoyed when people posted about politics on FB. This time, the D stands for Democracy, and the R should be F, for Fascism, or A for Authoritarianism. That's really important, and we need to talk about this.

Trump is not a conservative Republican. I've voted for those people before and would consider doing so again if that's what R was this time around (someone like Romney, for example). Trump is a fascist, pure and simple, accountable to none of our usual checks and balances (if he is elected). He will surround himself with sycophants and today's Republican Party will give him whatever he wants.

Consider the hundreds of thousands who have died for American democracy, beginning with the Revolutionary War and continuing though many others. Our freedoms aren't based on the largesse of an authoritarian leader, but are rooted in our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Trump has demonstrated his willingness to negate election results he doesn't like, and he has said that maybe we need to replace the Constitution (link below). He's even said he'd like to execute demonstrators and others he doesn't like.

I don't approve of all of Biden's policies and I wish we had a younger candidate to oppose Trump, but he is all that stands in the way of Trump's dictatorial ambitions. Biden's right about that. It does come down to American democracy versus fascism. Don't be confused or gaslighted about this.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03...th-social/index.html

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Phil,

- from Facebook: June 24, 2024

What do you think about this one?
Trump told Christian conservatives he literally has war wounds all over his (beautiful) body.

"Together, we stood up to the communists, Marxists and fascists to defend religious liberty like no other president has ever done,” he told the Faith & Freedom Coalition in Washington, D.C. “And I have the wounds all over my body. If I took this shirt off you’d see a beautiful, beautiful person but you’d see wounds all over me. I’ve taken a lot of wounds, I can tell you. More than I suspect any president ever.”
https://nz.news.yahoo.com/dona...g-off-105630724.html

I call bullshit!

There were 17 U.S. Presidents who saw combat, and some were seriously wounded.

- George H.W. Bush was a WWII pilot whose plane got shot down. He floated for hours on a life raft while bleeding profusely and vomiting.

- JFK suffered back problems the rest of his life after sustaining injuries from the sinking of his boat, the PT 109. It was six days before he and several members of his crew that he'd helped save were rescued, during which time he swam miles back and forth between wreckage and a nearby island, then along the island, looking for survival resources.

There are numerous other stories of Presidents who fought in battles and were wounded. Trump was not one of them.

For Trump -- let's not forget that he begged out of military service during the Viet Nam war period because of "bone spurs" in his heels. The details of this diagnosis have never been revealed. His bone spur problem apparently resolved through the years as he frequently plays golf without a noticeable limp -- 261 rounds during his presidency.

This is yet another example of Trump's odious narcissism stimulating his imagination in delusions of grandeur, messianic in this case. He cannot begin to measure of up the bravery and integrity of former Presidents who actually were wounded in combat.

Not much of a message from Trump once his many lies are refuted.
- What's troubling, however, is that his followers seem to hang on to his every word.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/24...e-washington-slaves/

Might be a good idea to refresh your memory on the findings of the January 6 hearings conducted in 2022. Almost all the witnesses were Republicans who'd worked with Trump, or were high-ranking Republicans. The link below is to a summary of findings, with a link to the full report if interested.

https://www.americanoversight....sight-investigations

I'll be watching.

But I'm reminded that Socrates "believed democracy gave demagogues the opportunity to mislead people by appealing to their emotions rather than their logic and rise to power without deserving to do so."

Said Socrates to Adeimantus:

"If you were heading out on a journey by sea, asks Socrates, who would you ideally want deciding who was in charge of the ship? Just anyone or people with experience in seafaring? The latter, of course, says Adeimantus. So why then, responds Socrates, do we keep thinking that any old person should be fit to judge who might be a suitable ruler for a country?"

Source https://greekreporter.com/2023...ot-believe-democracy

Right, populist demagogues are always a risk to democracy, and Trump/MAGA is the most dangerous in U.S. history. The U.S. founders set up the Electoral College as a hedge against that possibility, but it's become corrupted. U.S. elections now come down to the tally in five or six "swing states" with the rest predictably Red or Blue. This system is broken, but states can re-do the way they cast Electoral Votes, hopefully soon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...e_Interstate_Compact

There's also a matter of the importance of a well-informed electorate, something undermined by cable news and social media echo-chambers.

The Debate:

Biden really did look old and feeble, but finally woke up at the end. He knows what he's talking about, but must have a cold or something -- not much voice.

Trump has more energy, but hypes immigration issues so insanely as to be unbelievable. As usual, he also lies about anything and everything -- firehoses, really. Biden called him on some, but impossible to respond to them all.

Biden has a positive, optimistic view of America.

Trump considers the U.S. basically a failed state that requires an autocratic strong man to take over and save it.

I wish Biden was a better speaker!

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Trump failed the most important test: guaranteeing that he would accept the election results. He said "if it was a fair election," or something like that, meaning, "if I win," and Biden eviscerated him on the post-election stuff!
- Trump again, shamefully, blamed Pelosi for lack of security, and stupidly said that the Capitol police invited the rioters in -- all he did was say protest peacefully and patriotically. Recall, there was nothing to protest: the Electoral College had voted on Dec. 14th. So Trump distorted that whole issue, giving his followers the talking points he'd like them to take away from it all. And that's what they'll remember.

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So, who won the debate?

I think the debate coach below nailed it: they both got an F overall.

American citizens deserve better presidential candidates from our once-great political parties.
That said, the danger to our democracy is still Trump and he said nothing to reassure us to the contrary. Who would believe him even if he did as he lies about everything? So it's still as important as ever to vote for Biden or whoever the D candidate will be.

https://www.cnn.com/.../perfor...alysis.../index.html

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Fact-checkers weigh in:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27...al-debate/index.html

The fallout continues. I also saw that video of Jill Biden congratulating Joe Biden as though he were a child.

"First congressional Democrat calls on Biden to withdraw from 2024 race" says the headline on MSNBC.

I'm also reminded that, because of the way the electoral system works, the final decision on who is to be president will be made not by party loyalists, but by UNDECIDED voters, and even then, only those in half a dozen SWING STATES.

The UK is having a national election on the Fourth of July. That seems an odd date to choose, but there you go. Across much of Europe, once marginal right-wing parties have been gaining in popularity. I wonder what will happen in the UK.

Yes, lots going on with elections here and abroad, Derek. A common theme seems to be the emergence of the Right in politics.

I've had more discussion about the debate on my Facebook page, and this morning I noted the following:

quote:

Trump tries to characterize the U.S. as a disaster and joke, but that's what dictator wannabes do while presenting themselves as the "solution."

Hard to say what Biden will do. It's not as though a bad debate performance somehow implies that Trump would be a better President. Had Biden done OK, there's be more coverage about how Trump lied all night and was a bully and a jerk! Biden confronted him on numerous issues, but optics are taking precedence over substance, here.
Biden says he had a cold and was exhausted from the European trip and I believe him, but he's still quite old for a demanding job like President of the U. S. If he stays in, it would be good for him to reassure everyone that he will resign if his doctor so advises.

It makes no sense to me that anyone would switch from Biden to Trump because of the debate. Trump is almost as old, he's unhealthy, and prone to memory lapses and horrible gaffes as well. Additionally, he has no commitment to American democracy, as I've noted before -- a very dangerous man!"

Right now, I'd say there's a 50 - 50 chance that Biden will bow out to allow someone else the be the Democratic candidate. That would need to be ratified at the Convention, of course, but it's likely that Kamala Harris would be the top candidate. Some have also mentioned Michelle Obama, but I doubt she'd want the job.

Stay tuned!

I've been thinking it over since the Presidential debate and have come to agree:
THE OLD MAN MUST GO!
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He's obviously showing cognitive decline, sometimes forgetting what city he's in. When off the teleprompter, his sentences are incoherent, and his paragraphs are often incomprehensible word salads. To make matters worse, his speech is often slurred, and there's still that occasional sniffling, like he's been snorting coke or something.

Then there's all the lying -- about anything and everything, but especially about how bad life is in the USA. It seems he has little regard for our country, considering us Third World, a disaster, when we're actually doing better than almost every other country in the world.

There's also the matter of him doing all sorts of immoral acts, many of which are also illegal. Staging a violent coup to overthrow a U. S. election, for starters, and refusing to accept election results. Also, stealing classified documents, and all sorts of sexual misconduct, some of which has cost him millions.

He's got great plans for the country, however, beginning with jailing those whom he considers adversaries, including former VP Mike Pence -- for treason, no less.

I could go on, but you get it, I'm sure. That old man doesn't deserve to be leader of the free world. He can't be allowed to have access to nuclear codes or lead the most powerful military in history.

Yes, Donald J. Trump is unfit to serve as President of the United States and he should drop out or be replaced by someone else at the Republican convention.

Good article by NYT on how the attempt to assassinate Trump by a "lone wolf" is likely to divide us even moreso. That need not be the case, however. It ought to be possible for all of us to say:

1. The assassination attempt was wrong. Biden has said as much, even giving Trump a call to wish him well.

2. Viewing the near-miss of the bullet as though that is somehow an act of God is also wrong-headed. Trump was lucky -- way luckier than the little kids at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012 (or Parkland, Del Rio, etc. etc.).

3. So we are back to where we were a few days ago, evaluating concerns about Trump's corruptive influence and dictator aspirations versus Biden's age and cognitive abilities.
- The assassination attempt has not allayed these.

Of course, many on both sides are quite hyped by it all, but we still have several months to go before the election, and maybe another criminal trial or two. We can all pray that the light of truth and justice will show us the way as we continue to strive to love one another.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/0...lence-divisions.html

British prime minister Harold Wilson once remarked: “A week is a long time in politics.” You’re going to have to start giving us daily updates, Phil!

Haha yes! I was just thinking today that I needed to come and update this thread.

So, Biden has dropped out of the 2024 election, but he will be President for the next five months! I don't know that he's too happy about this, but it had become clear that his support was eroding badly. He really has aged a lot during the past year!

Kamala Harris will be the Democratic candidate for President and I'm thinking she'll give Trump a very difficult time of it. As a former Attorney General, she's not going to be bamboozled by all the lies and obfuscation, and there's a real spirit of optimism and joy about her that's already becoming contagious.