This short article provides a good starting point for discussion concerning the relevance of contemplative practice for all on the Christian journey. It examines three broad spiritual highways, and comments on how contemplative practice is a help for each.

After reading, please consider the questions below for reflection and discussion:

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1. Which of the three broad spiritual highways do you think you�re traveling?
2. What�s easier for you: to find God manifesting within or outside yourself?
3. How do you understand the relationship between spirituality and religion?
4. What other question, comments, and experiences touched off by this chapter would you like to share?

1. My personal approach is that of the psychological-contemplative spirituality. That does not ignore making practical moral decisions and taking specific actions leading from my spiritual exercises. Indeed, I find that almost invariably I learn what my priorities should be as I engage in periods of contemplation each morning. Sometimes that means undertaking a very humble task which I normally do such as the household vacuuming. As Brother Laurence said, God can be as present in such menial tasks as anywhere else. At other times, I receive no particular insights and certainly "no angel voices, no opening skies." Not even a sense of being in God's presence.

2. Actually, having experienced both, neither the inner or the outer manifestation of God's presence seems easier or more beneficial to me.

3. There is no question in my mind that religious devotion and spirituality are one and the same. These are expressions of faith, but also must be distinguished from one's religious tradition which has many aspects including scripture, liturgy, creeds and theology. While one's tradition may be different from that of others, I beleive it is possible for a deeper unity to be found at the personal spiritual level.

4. Personally, as a Protestant who has engaged throughout my professional life in the apostolic form of spirituality, I owe a great deal to the Catholic tradition of contemplative spirituality. It helps me communicate much more effectively with my Catholic friends and enables me to accept their tradition as valid for them if not for me.

From your Gerald May quote: The Christian contemplative approach always winds up putting primary emphasis on God�s initiative and action in life.

This reminds me to be vigilant and on the lookout for what God is doing, what His will is, what Robert Johnson refers to as the golden threads or Jung refers to as synchronicity and related analogues. To think that God is coming at me , at us, all the time in our experiences. I think I too often lose awareness of this and forget that even when I am not given answers that She is always providing clues. [suggesting I look outside of myself, but like John S. , clearly both - for I am highly intoverted]

From this experience comes a challenge, the fulcrum of our spiritual direction (double entendre), and the contemplative pause can be that interval between stimulus and response, between experience/challenge and choice. It is only at this step that my will is engaged.

But too often my focus is on my will and May tells us that: We will not finally come to love God, our neighbors, our planet or ourselves by means of what we learn to do or accomplish on our own.

So, in that contemplative moment, when we are still/stilled and most know that He is God, May says we: must receive the truth that will set us free, be guided in the good actions that truly serve our neighbors and world, and be given an appreciation of the beauty within and around us. Only as this happens, only as we let God lead the divine dance, can we more fully participate in God�s loving presence in and for the world.

If in our dialogue with other religions, we discover that common mystical core, then it is precisely in our collective pursuit of truth, beauty and goodness, alluded to above. What then sets us apart are our Christian Gospel truths articulted in Credo, our celebration of Christian beauty in our family's ritual, liturgy and song, and our Christian goodness preserved in the commandments of the Hebrew Testament and amplified in the love of God and neighbor, all of these doctrines, rituals and laws (which John S. alluded to) instituted by our brother, Jesus. [hence the relationship between religion & spirituality]

So, if we invoke His Father and ours, it is because He first convoked us as Church. We are not alone. We have a Helper. In these approaches to truth, beauty and goodness, as we pursue them as His will, we are transformed into His image and likeness, whatever our apostolate or charism.

I, too, find more that unites us than divides us.

I am pleased to pause awhile, with you
johnboy

I think I would have to say, in answer to number 1, that I lean more toward the Psychological/Contemplative Spirituality at this point in my life. However, in the past it leaned more toward the Apostolic Spirituality description.

In response to number 2, I'm not sure I can go one way or the other with that. It seems to me that when God is manifest inside myself it directly affects how He manifests Himself outside. I think this is the one major effect I have noticed in backing away from the Apostolic Spirituality to the more Psychological/Contemplative style.

Number 3 is something I'm still...mmmm not struggling with, but pondering maybe. I know that religion is important, but my focus has always been more relationship. In the past I have seen religion as structured and I wasn't convinced you could structure God. However, in these later years I think I am becoming more in tune to the fact that religion can have a basic structure, yet still leave room for personal experience within the structure. In Christianity (at least to me) it seems to be evident that some structure has to be maintained or else the whole premise of the belief can be misconstrued to mean "whatever spin I choose to put on it". So religion is becoming more important to me.

As for the last question, I am inclined to look at part of the quote by Dr. May there. This sentence :
Only as this happens, only as we let God lead the divine dance, can we more fully participate in God�s loving presence in and for the world.

I like that and I like the description my friend used to use that this relationship we have with God is a Divine Romance. I believe there is much to be said for the idea of the Divine Dance and the Divine Romance.

One thing is for sure, God touches each of us in the way that is most cooperative with our particular personalities and talents. It's invigorating to see how He interweaves us all together .

God bless,
Terri

I am home today because I don't have a voice
so I have time to catch up on the discussion

1. Which of the three broad spiritual highways do you think you�re traveling?
I am traveling the path of psychological-contemplative. It is such a tricky balance for me. I have many concrete experiences in my life that show effective action flowing from prayer, and many experiences showing how my actions have fallen short when I've been short on prayer. And I don't mean just formal prayer..the measurable time that I sit in prayer. These examples also include a lving in an attitude of prayer, more exactly ..a contemplative attitude. And yet, how many times do I give in and get too busy because there is a need!!!

2. What�s easier for you: to find God manifesting within or outside yourself?
At this time, I find God manifesting more within myself, rather than outside. When I am aware of God's presence within, and Love sustaining me, then I can look to the outside and see Him richly manifested in others and creation itself. Often, when I find that the person I'm dealing with or the situation feels 'godless', the problem is more within me.

3. How do you understand the relationship between spirituality and religion?
Religion, to me, is the form and ritual and laws used to express spirituality. Spirituality is the internal relationship with God. You can have one with out the other, but it is a beautiful thing when they work together.

4. What other question, comments, and experiences touched off by this chapter would you like to share?
I'm still working on that.

Which of the 3 broad spiritual highways am I traveling? I am not drawn to deep and regular prayer. I pray, but my prayers are as shallow as the breaths of a winded runner. Praying is a struggle for me...as I pray now, I am conscious of the clock ticking, a car passing by on the street, a jet roaring overhead, my fingers cold on the keyboard. I struggle to focus on the words, to manifest the words in myself. And, yet I know, the harder I struggle, the more elusive the prayer becomes. I would like to say that I am traveling Apostolic Spirituallity but that terminology sounds presumptive to me. I am looking for God in the moment. I believe that I have seen glimpses of God in the corner of another's eye.

Which is easier: to find God manifesting within or without? I have difficulty with the question. The use of the word "easier" leads me to think that it is something that I do. I believe that to find God manifesting is not based on my doing or willing or wishing or wanting. To find God manifesting is a gift, a surprise, a falling away of the coverings on my eyes, a chill up my spine that I can take no credit for or pleasure in.

My understanding of the relationship between religion and spirituality is that religion is the means by which the stream of spiritual consciousness is maintained and nurtured through the generations.

What other question, comments, and experiences touched off by this chapter would you like to share? How true the ring of the words "this relationship we have with God is a Divine Romance". How tantalizing close they almost sound.

aj wrote:

"Which is easier: to find God manifesting within or without? I have difficulty with the question. The use of the word "easier" leads me to think that it is something that I do. I believe that to find God manifesting is not based on my doing or willing or wishing or wanting. To find God manifesting is a gift, a surprise, a falling away of the coverings on my eyes, a chill up my spine that I can take no credit for or pleasure in."

aj....I like the way you said this. It resonates with me. Sometimes the moments or events in my life unfold before me and all I can do to just stand there in wonder as I realize that God IS manifesting in my life. Wow!

Someone recently told me that to "claim" these moments is to "live a life of intimacy with our loving gracious God."

I really like that word "claim." As you said, I take no CREDIT...it's nothing I have DONE. But the "claiming" brings me pleasure.

Anne

quote:

[qb]I'm an egocentric Christian

aj (from Introduction Thread)[/qb]

quote:

[qb]I have a real hang up with that "put yourself last" business.

AnneD(from Introduction Thread)[/qb]

quote:

[qb]I really like that word "claim." As you said, I take no CREDIT...it's nothing I have DONE. But the "claiming" brings me pleasure.

AnneD[/qb]

Anne,

You have influenced me to ask the question: What is the status of the ego-self during contemplative prayer?

Having never been conscious of contemplative prayer, I cannot speak from experience. From what I have read and heard, contemplation is a state in which the ego-self is not present in order to make room for the God-Self. If this is true, can an egocentric experience a state of contemplative prayer? My intuition tells me that the answer is “No” and “Yes”. “No”, because an egocentric will be unable to ‘let go’ of their ego. “Yes”, because "egocentric" is just a label and people are not always the label that they purport to be.

Based on these observations, however, I think that I will have a better chance at true contemplative prayer if i start to think of myself as a Christian egocentric .

…By the way, letting go of my precious little ego is one of my most frightening things.

aj

aj wrote:

<<You have influenced me to ask the question: What is the status of the ego-self during contemplative prayer?

Having never been conscious of contemplative prayer, I cannot speak from experience. From what I have read and heard, contemplation is a state in which the ego-self is not present in order to make room for the God-Self.>>

Hi aj,

I'm not used to being the one to answer questions around here.....I'm used to doing the ASKING!!

I don't even have a nailed-down definition of what contemplative prayer is, although I have somewhat of a grasp of what contemplative spirituality is.

I do think that a person can have what we might call contemplative moments....where the ego-self is not present. I'm sure you've had moments like this....watching the first snowfall...or a sighting a bird that you'd never seen before? In those moments the "ego self" is not present.

I would hope that my spiritual growth would move me in the direction of being less egocentric. But to be in a continuous state in which my ego is not present?? That's not a realistic goal for me. At least not in this lifetime. If I believed in reincarnation (sometimes I do and sometimes I don't) then I think I'd have a better shot at an ego-less state in my next life (after having made some progress in this one).

Anne (sneaking off before aj asks another question I can't answer....)

Anne:

quote:

I do think that a person can have what we might call contemplative moments....where the ego-self is not present. I'm sure you've had moments like this....watching the first snowfall...or a sighting a bird that you'd never seen before? In those moments the "ego self" is not present.

All of these threads interweave so seamlessly. I think that says something for wholistic and integral approaches. What I mean is that, in the above consideration, I think of that moment of raw awareness , just as or right after our senses have just gathered in reality, just before we have processed this reality judgmentally.

This is a contemplative pause that we can cultivate but sometimes it comes as pure gift!

pax, amor et bonum
jb

quote:

[qb]I have somewhat of a grasp of what contemplative spirituality is.

I do think that a person can have what we might call contemplative moments....where the ego-self is not present.

AnneD[/qb]

AnneD,

I would like to hear what your contemplative grasp is. I have the impression that speaking from "somewhat of a grasp of what contemplative spirituality is" may be the most humbly lucid. I have heard that contemplative spirituality is a state of "unknowing". If this is true, I am more comfortable listening to you than someone who says that they "know" contemplative spirituality.

I think that all that I am capable of at present are contemplative moments....but i also believe that we are capable of contemplative lives. Our contemplative lives are available now....I believe it is just a question of us accepting the Gift. So easily said, so elusive to be.

In the meantime ...

Oh God, teach me to be in love with You.

aj

aj, there's a lot more info about contemplative prayer/moments on thread I: Contemplation and the Ladder of Prayer. Check it out, especially the description of the Prayer of Quiet. I think that's a pretty common experience.

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As for the loss of ego question, I think anytime there's a loss of memory concerning something we can speak of the loss of Ego. This is different from times of Ego-expansion or fusion into greater experiences. For example, we might lose a sense of self-consciousness in observing a beautiful sunset or listening to a symphony, but we can remember back all of what happened, which means the Ego was there in some manner.

We all have times every day when we experience loss of Ego, namely during sleep. During dreams, however, the Ego can be partially awake, and might even know itself to be a participant in the dream (namely, you).

There are mystical states when the Ego seems to be eclipsed, or shoved aside. Those are generally called Ecstatic States. I asked an old nun one time what she thought was going on during those times and she said without hesitation, "That's when God is absorbing you." Sounds good to me!

It's sure been a long time since anyone has posted in this thread. Oh well.


As with almost everyone else that has posted here and probably most people that frequent the Shalom Place Discussion Board, I think my approach is the Psychological-Contemplative Spirituality. I've been just discovering this in the last few years. The article referenced at the begining of this thread mentioned that most of Protestantism is Apostolic Spirituality. I'm 23 and have been in protestant churches my entire life. This explains why I had almost no exposure to Contemplative spirituality growing up. I "discovered" it about four years ago and wodered why this pathway that my heart resonates with so much was never talked about in church. I guess I just went to the wrong ones.

This discussion has been fairly quiet for some time, Beau (people are contemplating, I guess -- ). Actually, it was an online series offered during Lent 2003, then later opened to the public. Most of the participants who went through the course were more active when it was ongoing, but we still receive an inquiry here and there since it went public.

It's great that you've come to an interest in contemplative spirituality at such a young age. Many Protestants are, like you, discovering a deep hunger for contemplative spirituality. FWIW, there's not much discussion of it in Catholic parishes, either. You have to dig around a bit to find the literature, but it's there.

I have changed from apostolic spirituality to psychological/contemplative. The former is what I was schooled in within the evangelical church. Contemplation was never offered as a viable alternative. So I wore myself ragged trying to be someone I wasn't. Once I burned out, I asked God what went wrong, and He showed me another way. Contemplation is certainly more harmonious with the kind of person I am; I am naturally reflective. However, it has been a long row to hoe with finding guidance. Books have been great in either showing the way or confirming what God was showing me. I am still very much learning. Surprisingly, I got a lot of guidance through mindfulness-based chronic pain management classes. I do find that I feel closest to God is not when I'm active, but when I'm quiet. Even in a general worship, as I connect with God, I stop singing and stop standing and am just still. I love solitude and silence. My prayers, including my intercessory prayers are wordless or almost so.