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Tantric Sex for Christians? Login/Join
 
posted
Hey All,

Not sure if it is okay to talk about this here, but I figured you'll would tell me if it wasn't.

What do you guys think of Tantra and whether or not we as Christians can practice it within the confines of Christian marriage.

Here is a website that talks alot about it:

Tantric Sex
 
Posts: 716 | Location: South Africa | Registered: 12 August 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<w.c.>
posted
I've never married, but in my best attempts toward fidelity in a partnership with a woman, the stuff on that link kind of ruins intimacy, at least as I've known it. I can only imagine how such an approach might conflict in a mature marriage where sexual experience is primarily an outgrowth of deep intimacy. I'm familiar through past Qigong and Buddhist practice with these techniques, and they all cast a subtle, results-oriented, even narcissistic shadow on sexual union. One's partner becomes a means/object for applied technique rather than the relationship being a communion of souls led beyond their own knowings to receptions of love and understanding.

It would be one thing were this stuff a discovery from within the marriage, where psychic vision opens out of love and intuition leads the way. But as a set of formulas, my sense is that it would mostly appeal to marriages still floundering in adolescense; it just sounds immature and New-Agey.
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexuality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantra

We are combining two subjects, are we not, the beliefs and cultural systems people come from, and
what they do with it. Neither a belief system nor
sexuality occur in a vaccuum, and have many affects and effects on everything surrounding them. What is the end product and result? What is the intention?
 
Posts: 2559 | Registered: 14 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Who in the world wants to talk about sex? If I was getting regular sex do you think I would be talking so much politics? Big Grin

quote:
--------- Spiritual body union ---------
4. Although this step is pretty high level, keep your clothes on and even refrain from any physical contact.
Yes!!! I can do that! I'm already at the advanced level. Neener neener neener.

As you may have noticed, I think sex should be fun. If people want to turn it into a game of Twister then I say, more power to you. But I lied earlier. I'm not really as advanced as Spiritual Body Union, Step 4. I'm at Find Willing Warm Body, Step 1.

Yes, that is to say that I'd like to be in the position to worry about positions, if you know what I mean.
 
Posts: 5413 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 21 September 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here, I think, is an appropriate excerpt that might be speaking a bit to what WC was saying:

quote:
Everyone wants pleasure. More deeply, everyone wants happiness. Most deeply, everyone wants joy.

Freud says that spiritual joy is a substitute for physical pleasure. People become saints out of sexual frustrations.

This is exactly the opposite of the truth. St. Thomas Aquinas says, "No man can live without joy. That is why one deprived of spiritual joy goes over to carnal pleasures." Sanctity is never a substitute for sex, but sex is often a substitute for sanctity.
I'm certainly at that stage where all I want is pleasure and relief�perhaps because I am deprived of spiritual joy. It seems to me that tantric sex can be an exploration of the spiritual side of sex by way of the purely sensual side. One is a direct pointer to the other. And who can doubt that most people delve into such things because they feel there's something missing and/or that this most magical and mystical of experiences can and should be heightened? The danger would seem to be that intimacy and pleasure could be decreased because sex becomes a rule-based thing that has to be done "right" instead of joyfully, spontaneously (thus authentically) and thankfully � two people (unless groups are a part of this Big Grin ) receiving and giving what can, at that moment, be received and given.

Offhand (no pun intended), I think it would do good for couples to learn about tantric sex just to loosen up their own attitudes about it. And maybe an important point to keep in mind would be that if there is something that needs enhancing it could well be that that something is affection and love, not just sensual pleasure. If tantric sex is a way to heighten both then more power to it.
 
Posts: 5413 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 21 September 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm with w.c. on this one.

My understanding of sex/sexuality is that it is a gift from God. Another way we have of expressing and receiving love & pleasure within a commited relationship.

I've read about Tantric Sex and see all the books/dvds/courses/therapy that is available, and whilst I believe that sex needs to be discussed and not hidden away or seen as an animal function I also think that it can become an obsession or an end in itself. Something we should do right, we should be doing, and if we're not then it needs fixing Eeker . Even in a commited and mature relationship there will be seasons, just as in nature. Seasons where we can't get enough of each other, and seasons where all we want to do is sleep/read/cuddle. A healthy relationship is one where we can accept each other's needs as they are expressed.

If any fulltime working couple with kids, homes, families, and everything that goes with all that has the time and energy to spend on Tantric sex then great Cool , but I doubt if there are that many! My concern is that the rest (can I say of us? Big Grin ) then feel that there must be something wrong!

Just a thought!
FrancesB
 
Posts: 59 | Location: UK | Registered: 23 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What do you guys think of Tantra and whether or not we as Christians can practice it within the confines of Christian marriage.

Jacques, I wonder if it would be helpful if you stated what you believe the affirmative argument for tantric sex would be. What are the benefits. I think it�s perhaps inevitable that anytime we delve into the nitty gritty of techniques, positions, and procedures regarding sex that it at least appears that sex is being trivialized. But I don�t necessarily buy that as a given. We may have lots of fun spontaneously and lovingly driving our cars in the countryside, but that does not mean there aren�t some rather dull, laborious hours spent in the garage �under the hood� tuning things up so that all runs smoothly when we�re out for a joy ride.
 
Posts: 5413 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 21 September 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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More from that previous link:

quote:
The symbolism is not "sexist" either. It holds for a man's soul as well. Only when lovers give up all control and melt helplessly into each other's bodies and spirits, only when they overcome the fear that demands control, do they find the deepest joy. Frigidity, whether sexual or spiritual, comes from egotism.

We've all known people who are cold, suspicious, mistrusting, unable to let go. These people are miserable, wretched. They can't find joy because they can't trust, they can't have faith. You need faith to love, and you need to love to find joy. Faith, love, and joy are a package deal.
I love that idea of giving up control, overcoming fear, letting go and having faith.

EASIER SAID THAN DONE!!! I am absolutely terrible at all of these but I�m willing to learn. Where�s the manual for �tantric life�? Wink
 
Posts: 5413 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 21 September 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Where�s the manual for �tantric life�?
There are lots of those around! The problem is really living it I guess! The mess I get into is trying too many different things at once and I haven't really given any one of them a real chance! Too much choice. I'm sure there's a book dealing with that too! That's also why I'm attracted to a monastic lifestyle - I fantasise that then I could really let go - within the boundaries of the order. Real freedom?

There's another question, Christians & sexuality, how/why do many choose celibacy?
Some achieve celibacy, some have it thrust upon them? Big Grin
 
Posts: 59 | Location: UK | Registered: 23 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Jacques, I wonder if it would be helpful if you stated what you believe the affirmative argument for tantric sex would be.
Well to be quite honest, I don't know all that much about it. I suppose I was asking because I am exploring subtle energies and their effects on our lives and I became interested in the fact that we could work with the subtle energies through our sex lives to enhance our spiritual lives. So to answer the question I was wondering whether tantric sex may be a pointer toward what Adam and Eve's sex lives would have been like had they not fallen into sin. It is true that it seems impersonal to have to learn all these techniques etc. but what if originally it would just have all fallen into place so to speak and now we are simply studying it and having to learn what was lost. I am rambling a bit, but I think you will understand what I mean.
 
Posts: 716 | Location: South Africa | Registered: 12 August 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm sure there's a book dealing with that too! That's also why I'm attracted to a monastic lifestyle - I fantasise that then I could really let go - within the boundaries of the order. Real freedom?

Frances B, I think there�s some real truth there in finding freedom within certain boundaries. I think this is because it jibes with our finite nature. We know then that we don�t have to be all things to all people (especially to that little voice inside that screams �more, more more!) Wink

And I would hazard to guess that whether we are living inside or outside a monastery or convent, we are already living by a certain set of rules. It would probably do some good to explicitly acknowledge and bring to mind what those rules are. And then maybe we could write a couple new ones or change existing ones.

I think it would do, and do quite well, if we all consciously and overtly thought about our lives, wherever and however they are being lived, as being cloistered within the protective walls of sane and limited appetites. We can build our own monastery or convent without going behind three-foot thick walls. It can be built in attitude.

Some achieve celibacy, some have it thrust upon them?

The funny thing is, if there�s purpose in things then my enforced celibacy (at the moment, anyway) can positively provide a sort of gateway to reordering my appetites and getting my head (and heart) screwed on straight before I actually start to (hopefully) do the dirty dead on a regular basis. I assure you though that I won�t need any manuals. When you�re in my position, there�s no such thing as bad sex. Big Grin
 
Posts: 5413 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 21 September 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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�but what if originally it would just have all fallen into place so to speak and now we are simply studying it and having to learn what was lost.

That�s an interesting point of view, Jacques. I don�t happen to think of life in term of energies which can be manipulated, but I know a lot of people do and it seems to work for them. But I do think in terms of spirit, and a person�s spirit can definitely flag. Instead of looking at things in term of energies (which I think can assist us in missing the point), I look at them (now) in terms of waxing or waning love for things, love for life, love for self, love for other people, nature, whatever. If It�s all about love, built with love, and built for love, then that�s where I�m going to put my attention when things aren�t working right. And I�ve done so lately and the unvarnished truth is not very complimentary. But there is freedom in truth.

So I don�t know if tantric sex is simply a celebration of this marvelous thing we have or whether it�s trying to be a substitute for love. I suspect it can facilitate both. If someone is looking to improve an existing sexual relationship then some of those tantric techniques look promising, the kind where you might nuzzle and cuddle or prolong the sex act as a way of just maintaining a loving presence. That might break what I hear can often happen, and it can happen to anything�it becomes routine and loses meaning.

But I have a hunch, and this may be along the lines of what WC said, that it is easy to unconsciously try to substitute technique for intimacy. But I realize there�s a million ways under the sun that people enjoy their sexual lives. For some it is really no big deal to approach it as a �paint by numbers� approach. It�s just another fun, harmless, and creative thing to do.
 
Posts: 5413 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 21 September 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Jacques, my belief is that a married couple is free in Christ to celebrate their love sexually in whatever manner they find to be life-giving and with due consideration for the procreative/reproductive dimension of human sexuality. Using sex to elevate one's consciousness (as seems to be the goal of Tantric sex) and one's partner's might fulfill these values for some couples, and so it's as difficult to respond to your question as it was to your others on the thread about the occult. There is a danger that one could be using one's partner to stoke one's energy, but that's not really much different than using one's partner for sexual release, which is much more common.

So it seems to come down, again, to questions concerning motive. What's going on? Is one an energy junkie just looking for another way to titillate the pranic centers? How does one's partner feel about the practice? How does love figure in? Etc.
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Very interesting thread. Jesus said, "I and the Father are One." If we can become one with another even for a brief time, I think it can be inspiroring to stay and endeavor on the spiritual path. To make the act of sex spiritual, which takes discipline can only bring about positive results.

I think celibacy can do the same if thought of as uniting the male and female inside one's being. I am a male so am attracted to females outside that are similar to the female within me. We are made up of male and female characteristics thanks to our parents genes. Females would be attracted to the male within them so some are attracted to married life where they are united in marriage and work on that spiritual union while celibacy is a legimate way to be single and unite the male and female forces inside.

It is good to make all things spiritual
 
Posts: 65 | Registered: 12 January 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I really like that idea of using celibacy as a way of uniting the male and female within. It sounds very Jungian to me- the anima/animus and effects on our relationships.

Thanks Soma
FrancesB
 
Posts: 59 | Location: UK | Registered: 23 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think that is where I got it. I pick things up and if it helps me to understand or explain things I put it in my toolbox.
 
Posts: 65 | Registered: 12 January 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Me too. Jung is interesting, and I spent the summer reading about some of his ideas. I use his approach to understanding my dreams. It makes much more sense than how I was trained as a Freudian. I never really bought the idea that it is only sex that drives us. I like Jung's approach to mythology/archetypes/actualisation. It fits with my Christianity too.
FrancesB
 
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