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i have a full day here with my mom... yet a quick comment to thank all for the kindness in your responses... oh, dear body of Christ here at S.P. how each joint supplies. bless each of you. thank-you Kristi... i am floundering here, can't find my words as I take in Christ's words... another round of thanks!
 
Posts: 173 | Location: East Lansing, MI | Registered: 18 July 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There is also something here that has called my attention. Being I am in the honest making business (really important for me, right now), I would very much like to address it. I hope it is well received. I share it for the sake of my own conscience.

Gail, you paid me a beautiful compliment in your words here in this thread. In reading your words, I was both affirmed...and flattered.

The affirmation was good. It is good for another to recognize and affirm us in healthy ways. But dangerous if my definition of myself is dependent upon how another views me or who I am to another. In the moment of reading your words, I was aware of how an aspect of my woundedness (false self) could have taken and run with the flattery - which is a form of adulation, or worshipping of another as more than or better than one's self.

This very thing has caused me much pain in life. I grew as a child and through life having learned to believe myself so much less than others that it became a crippling form of giving myself away to others. This was not apparent on the surface of my life in earlier years, given I went on to become a very confident, competent and proudly performing (appearing) senior noncommissioned officer in the Army. I thank God for gracing me with such fine coping skills given my very unfortunate beginnings, but inside I lived in a very pained state of self-betrayal, I began to find when I started healing. (And yet, all of those fine qualities are a part of me and my tools, too, still.)

This self-betrayal I learned led to my worshipping the healer and guru types -False Gods. Something I will not do any longer.

In Matthew 10, Jesus says, (37) Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; (38) and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me; (39) whoever find his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

I don't know that others will agree with my sense of this piece of scripture, and that does not really matter, for what is most important is how I am hearing Him speak to me right now, and it feels very true in my heart. I am trusting that. To me, in this piece of scripture, I see Jesus and His words as emblematic of one's own True Self...learning to be true to ourselves, the work of which includes a lot of honesty. Father or mother (or son or daughter) could as well be friend or neighbor, passerby, or Kristi or Gail.

I am seeing that False Gods are anyone or anything I have or would elevate or place in a position of authority, more than or better than, etc. And I just want to come to find Christ within now. I don't want to take another's projection of light, value or goodness (or, whatever)...nor give my own self away any longer. And I committ to myself to also do my level best to search myself out regarding what is and isn't mine, to won my brokenness and my goodness.

So many in life, to include Gurus feed (so to speak) on the attention of others, define themselves according to it, pride themselves at the expense of others, simultaneously putting themselves in the position to be defining others. It is part of what keeps our world so broken. I don't want to do that, don't want to be a part of hurting others in the way I was hurt.

I wonder if this is (at least in part) precisely why the Catholic church does not canonize saints until some period of time after their death, lest they make themselves into a God-man/woman (being stunned silly with adulation) and having others bowing before/worshipping them in the flesh.

So, thank you, for your compliment, for acknowledging and saying what you see in me, but it is really you, too...as the sharing of your own poetry has shown. The projection making business is not just of the negatively viewed things, but the positive, too. We put both our light and shadow onto others. Tricky stuff. I pray Jesus continue to bless me with clarity of mind and heart, help me to see.

Kristi

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KristiMarie,
 
Posts: 226 | Location:  | Registered: 03 December 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Kristi,

Yes, "The projection business is tricky stuff"

Oh dear, I know flattery isn't the best way to communicate, I am sorry. However, the affirmation I spoke to you came from a place of loving sincerity inside of me.

I am not (consciously) trying to put myself down, but I do struggle with writing, words are easier for me to speak than to write... Unless I am writing a poem, then the words find me.

I love that you are learning to be true to yourself, "which includes a lot of honesty" and I hope that I didn't come across as more than, or better than... Not my heart or intention at least in my awareness. The Lord is so good in helping us to sort things out, in my case it is a little here and a little there.

I love Jeremiah 9:23-24. It levels me if I fall under the wheels of self-contempt or on the other hand if I puff myself up. It reminds me that everything I have has come from him, so if there is going to be any boasting all the glory belongs to Him.
"This is what the Lord says: Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom
or the strong man of his strength
or the rich man of his riches,
but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the Lord who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on the earth, for in these things I delight,"
declares the Lord.
So, I pray that together in our light & shadow, ups or downs that we can be true to ourselves after first being true to Him.
 
Posts: 173 | Location: East Lansing, MI | Registered: 18 July 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Gail,

I was speaking less about you and more about me, meaning I am the one who took it in (somewhat) boastfully. I felt flattered.

Yes, I knew you were sincere. I also experienced our sharing here as very sincere and very beautiful and affirming of one another. Except for the moment of inflation that did creep in on me. It is this that I was speaking to, wanted to be honest about.

Thank you for sharing that piece of scripture from Jeremiah! Perfect!

Kristi
 
Posts: 226 | Location:  | Registered: 03 December 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Kristi and Gail, to my understanding affirmation is a good thing, and is to be distinguished from approval or flattery in that it communicates honest and positive feedback concerning the behavior (including words) of others while the latter also communicates some judgment (positive) of personality as well. Of course, if we've experienced shame in our lives, especially from family of origin, it's difficult to hear affirmation without, oneself, turning it into an approval statement, for shame-based woundings link the two. But we don't want to "throw the baby out with the bath water," here. Just because one hears genuinely affirming statements as approval statements ( which are indeed manipulative, though not always intentionally so -- sometimes just imprecise communications), it doesn't follow that we ought to be suspicious of such. I know in my own life it was, for a long time, difficult to accept affirmation, as I didn't feel worthy of it, or thought it was approval of some kind. I've learned to accept even the latter as a gift, of sorts, and to say thank you even if I don't agree with the feedback. For me, that's not being dishonest as I really will consider what has been offered, and I really do want to acknowledge the good-will of the other. It's my responsibility to accept or decline the feedback offered to me, and I only venture to discourage such when it becomes overtly abusive. Happily, at this time in my life, I seldom encounter such negativity.
 
Posts: 3542 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by KristiMarie:

Hi Kristi

I am spent... Joyfully spent! I have been at hospital since 7:00 am (other than a quick run home) My darling grand-daughter was born today, her name is Charlotte, she will also be known as Charlie. I never knew love could be so draining.
Well, with all the anxious waiting for her arrival then the tears... Oh, my heart! So, I will respond tomorrow.
Love, A PROUD Grandma! (My first) wow
 
Posts: 173 | Location: East Lansing, MI | Registered: 18 July 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Congratulations, Gail. Prayers for continuing good health for Charlotte and her Mom.
 
Posts: 3542 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Phil:
Congratulations, Gail. Prayers for continuing good health for Charlotte and her Mom.


Thank-You, Phil.

It means the world to me that you pray for them.
 
Posts: 173 | Location: East Lansing, MI | Registered: 18 July 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
if we've experienced shame in our lives, especially from family of origin, it's difficult to hear affirmation without, oneself, turning it into an approval statement, for shame-based woundings link the two.

I think I was seeing some of this, Phil. While I experienced my and Gail's sharing (and experience it, still) as very positive - supportive and loving, this idea/sense of flattery did come in - some wounded self co-opting the experience. Thank you for reminding not to throw out the baby with the bath water. I think I need to take this wounded self to Jesus for more healing love, put me in the bath water!

~

Gail,

"Congratulations Grandma!!!"

Charlotte - "Charlie" ... how beautiful! Never heard Charlie used as a girl's (nick)name, but I love it. It's catchy!

Wishing you many joy-filled memories to come!

Kristi
 
Posts: 226 | Location:  | Registered: 03 December 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
And you know I mean those statements as AFFIRMING and maybe a hint of some approving (not intentionly manipulative, but still the message is: keep on doing that rather than failing to do that for me), but in no way flattering (which I don't need to do because I'm not scared of you and wouldn't mean anything to you anyway because you're not scared of me), right?!


Thanks for all that nice feedback, Shasha. Smiler

Something I've learned that's been very freeing is that I don't really have to know if another's communication is a projection, or if I'm projecting that they're projecting,Eeker or if their motives or good, etc. All I need to do is take responsibility for my inner reactions to their communication, and my own behavioral response to it. It doesn't matter to me that others communicate sloppily at times; heck, we all do. But it is very important to set boundaries for oneself against what we perceive to be abusive, ill-intentioned communication and behavior. Thankfully, it's been quite awhile since we've had that sort of thing on this board.
 
Posts: 3542 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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"I want to say your words in this post again move me... And I know Who is doing that inside of me, I still have so many hang ups, but I hear Him through a computer, (which is amazing) through your voice, as if he is saying: Come on Gail, don't be embarrassed, it shouldn't be painful when Kristi or others speak kind & affirming words, let my body minister to You, they are my hands & feet"
I wrote this to Kristi, had to copy it because my hands are full today...

Phil, I am slowly coming back to life after a couple of difficult years, my heart is thankful for S.P. I am starting to find my voice again, so to speak. I long to know the healing that you and others here know Phil. What you wrote here sound familiar: "I know in my own life it was, for a long time, difficult to accept affirmation, as I didn't feel worthy of it, or thought it was approval of some kind."

But, I can say with confidence that I know I am in good hands, and that He will complete this work that he begun in me. (He already see's it's finished work, which blows my mind) The wisdom & correction in your post is helpful.

Thank-You Shasha, Charlie is a precious gift.
 
Posts: 173 | Location: East Lansing, MI | Registered: 18 July 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shasha:


We'll have to call you Mom-Mom./QUOTE]

I missed that earlier! Hilarious.
 
Posts: 173 | Location: East Lansing, MI | Registered: 18 July 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Mom-mom? LOL. IPA for Shasha! and a rose for mom-mom. Happy Val's Day's to both of you.

I'd wish all the females at SP the same, but it might be construed as approval. Lol.

Pop-pop
 
Posts: 465 | Registered: 20 October 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Congratulations, Gail! I pray for your family, too. God bless you and your loved ones!
 
Posts: 424 | Registered: 03 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Mt:
Congratulations, Gail! I pray for your family, too. God bless you and your loved ones!


Mt & All,

I know it might sound corny, but when I read everyone's congratulations and that you pray for my family, well that chokes me up! I thank the Lord for y'all. I try and return the favor in my prayer time for you also. Isn't kindness a lovely thing!
 
Posts: 173 | Location: East Lansing, MI | Registered: 18 July 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well you all have a different stories. This means you have face so many problems, but the best part is now you are fine. Thanks for sharing.
 
Posts: 1 | Location: 5325 Clay Ter Ne, Washington, DC 98001 | Registered: 14 June 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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