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Truth Vs Falsehood, How to Tell the Difference , Dr. David Hawkins, M.D., P.H.D.
02 August 2005, 07:43 PM
spoonboyTruth Vs Falsehood, How to Tell the Difference , Dr. David Hawkins, M.D., P.H.D.
After over a year of delays, the new book has finally arrived. Let's have another look at the good
doctor. The book is chock full of calibrations, hundreds of them, politics, media, movies, Great Books of the Western World, architecture, scientists, philosophers, artists, industries, corporations, scientific theories, 2004 election,
government agencies, law enforcement,TV commercials,
philanthropic organizations, medical practices,
America, public service organizations, famous criminals, and much, much more.
Beginning with countries, how do they stack up?
USA -421
Austrailia - 410
Canada -415
Mexico -300
PRC -300
Iraq -120
Haiti -55
Bosnia -180
North Korea -175
Cuba -180
Nepal -205
Vietnam -140
Europe -355
Syria -155
India -355
Pakistan -140
Israel -190
The U.S. position on the Vietnam war -405 at first, then dropping to 350
Kennedy position on the Cold War -430
Nixon's position -400
GHW Bush position on the Gulf War I -400
Sadadam Hussein position -95
Soviet leaders:
Khruschev -80
Breznev -90
KGB -40
CIA -185
Calibrations for early Iraq war:
Bush -460
Powell -460
Blair 440
Secretary of Defense -460
U.S. Military (intention) -450
State Department (intention) -450
Congress -450
U.S. population -431
U.S. media - 320
Peace vigils -305
Pre-emptive war -360
Oh, boy, we're having some fun now.

02 August 2005, 10:27 PM
PhilIt really is fun to see how Hawkins feels about things, isn't it?

03 August 2005, 02:26 PM
spoonboyHawkins on Kundalini,(Truth vs Falsehood,page 69):
"This spiritual energy, or kundalini, as it is often called (Sanella, 1992), eventually is more strongly dominant with the progression of consciousness until, finally, its presence becomes detectable by sensation. By the time the consciousness levels reach the 500s, and especially in the high 500s the energy tends to flow in a generalized way and influences not only subjectivity but percieved experience as well. Life experiences become progressively more benign and fortuitous. What is held in mind tends to present itself almost effortlessly as thoug h by the miraculous. The subjective sensation of this energy field is exquisite and sweetly pleasurable.
Characteristically, it is experienced as flowing up the back and the spine into the brain where it can be made to flow into any specific area of the brain by merely focusing attention. At times the energy flows of its own accord out the front of th e body from the heart region by virtue of its own intrinsic nature. The energy flow potentiates healings and transformations in self and others. It is the influential energy field that potentiates the 'miraculous' (Calibrates as 'true')
(Hawkins, 2001)."
This matches my experience of "k", except that I never attempted to move it around to areas of my brain, but I lack Hawkins grasp of anatomy and brain function. Also, I attribute the miracles to that which I believe to be the Source. <*))))><
http://www.skaggs-island.org/h...nella/kundalini.html Ok, I remember Sannella now. Interesting...
Hawkins uses his psychiatric skill to assess pathological states vs authentic spiritual states and had done this for the Catholic church, Zen and Protestant monastics. He's been to Snowmass to visit with Father Keating and the boyz, so, he's no piker...
yeah, lots of fun...
04 August 2005, 09:40 PM
spoonboyU.S. Politics:
Anarchy 105
Abortion
Anti 250
Pro 235
Church/Pike Committee hearings 185
Conservative party 310
Cultural Creatives 335
Democratic Party 310
Domestic Partership Law 335
Evangelical Right (Moral Majority) 245-255
Gay Marriage Law (Massachusettes) 265
Green Party 180
Far Left Liberal 185
Far Right Conservative 135-145
Liberal 180-200
Libertarian Party 295
McCarthy Hearings 185
Moderates 200-390
Republican Party 315
Secularism 180
Socialist Party 265
Torricelli Principle "Section 527" 160
Organizations 200
05 August 2005, 12:57 AM
spoonboyDistribution of Levels of Consciousness, Middle East
Egypt 300
Iran 190
Iraq 120
Israel 190
Jordan 185
Kuwait 190
Lebanon 130
Oman 90
Palestine 185
Saudi Arabia 175
Syria 160
Turkey 245
UAE 180
Yemen 160
05 August 2005, 01:31 AM
spoonboyTerrorist Organizations
Abu Sayyaf Group (Philippines) 85
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade Israel, West Bank, Gaza 75
Al-Quaeda (Wahabism) Global 65
Asbat al-Ansar (Lebanon) 75
Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA) France, Spain
80
Chachon Separatists (Russia) 85
Fallujah Insurgents 85
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) Central Asia
75
Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) Israel, West Bank, Gaza 75
Hasbullah (Lebanon) 70
Hofsted Network (Netherlands) 85
Ivory Coast Revolutionaries 90
Jaishe-e-Mohammed (Pakistan) 75
Jamaah Islamiya (Southest Asia) 80
Kach Kahane Chai (Israel, West Bank) 80
Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) Turkey 85
Lashkar I Jhangve (Pakistan) 75
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (Sri Lanka) 80
Moro Islamic Liberation Front (Philippines) 80
Moroccan Islamic Combat Group (Morocco) 85
National Liberation Army (ELN) (Columbia) 80
Palestine Islamic Jihad (Israel, West Bank, Gaza)
75
Palestine Liberation Organization 65
Real IRA (Northern Ireland) 85
Revolutionary Armed Forces (FARC) (Columbia) 90
Salifist Cell and Combat Group (Algeria) 80
"Supremacist Groups" (Racist, Ethnic, Religious, Political) Worldwide 40-85
Tewhid we Jihad (Iraq) 70
Ulster Defense Association (Northern Ireland) 85
United Self-Defense Forces (Columbia) 90
-------------------------------------------------
A calibration of 50 has a condemning God, hopeless
self, emotion of despair and process of Abdication
A calibration of 75 has an uncaring God, tragic self, emotion of regret and process of despondency
A calibration of 100 has a punitive God, frightening life view, emotion of anxiety and process of withdrawal
50 level is Apathy, Hatred
75 level is Grief
100 level is Fear
Boy, just one of these people could ruin your whole day!

05 August 2005, 02:39 PM
spoonboyTen Noble Traits of Americans, (Devji 2004, calibration 470), as quoted on pages 170-171:
1)GODLY: Almost all of us acknowledge that a power beyond us guides the swirling destinies of men; the Native Americans pray to a 'Great Spirit' and with
a reverent heart tie it to the sacred earth and skies of America.
2)TOLERANT: European Christians settled this land and wrote it's constitution. They then opened their arms wide and welcomed people from the rest of the world. Now mosques, synagogues and temples
pepper the landscape along with churches. Muslims can worship more freely here than in most Moslem countries. Sikhs wear turbans and Jews their yamakas.
3)VISIONARY: While we are an earthbound nation enjoying our material success, we are also an extraordinary visionary people. We dare to dream impossible dreams. We soar the skies searching the stars. We have landed on planets that lie shrouded in billions of years of silence. On earth, our vision in the healing arts will literally make the lame walk and the blind see.
4)PROSPEROUS: The capacity of Americans to work hard joyously is the stuff of which the wealth of this country is made. Our work ethic is unmatched.
We are the richest country in the world, but our children start babysitting, bagging groceries and cutting lawns while they are still in school.
5) GENEROUS: There is possibly no country on earth which has not been touched by the generosity of Americans. We respond to earthquakes, floods and famines with compassionate hearts. We send money, medicines, clothes and prayers to victims of every color and creed, even our "enemies." We know that we are custodians of wealth, not it's owners.
6) RESILIENT: Americans have an uncanny capacity to bounce back from adversity---- accidents, bankruptcies, and divorces. The rebuild their bodies, businesses and lives. They do not sit in dark corners; they fight back.
7)COURAGEOUS: A four-year-old in my neighborhood comes around the corner wearing a helmet, riding a scooter, and my aunts in India still hold on to their 14-year-olds protectively! Americans seem to be born with an extra streak of courage. It seems to be seared within our soul. We teach the world the meaning of the word with our daring spirits and our exploits.
8)HUMOUROUS: We love laughter and life. You can tell an American abroad because he is generally the one who has the biggest smile, sometimes the loudest voice and laughter, and is the most approachable. An American will fill a room with his infectious goodwill and just not treat anyone as a stranger.
9) SELF INTROSPECTION: Occupying the unique position that we do in the world, we could be really arrogant and indifferent to people's opinions, but we are childlike in our need for approval. We are a self-introspective people, we dissect our actions and thoughts, we form committees, and we discuss them in our newspapers, television, and town hall meetings.
10) SWEETNESS: Countries, like people, become dry and arid if the quality of sweetness is absent from the souls of their citizens. Americans have been blessed with a rare quality of sweetness of the soul.
-------------------------------------------------
As you can see, Hawkins is quite bullish on America and Devji must have had her Special K one morning!

08 August 2005, 07:53 PM
spoonboyDiagnostic Scale -----Politics and the election 2004
Conservatives 415
Republicans 405
Moderates 375
Democrats 325
Liberals 255
Ultra Liberal, Far Left 185
Far Left diatribes 135
Anarchists 100
Non-voters 90
-------------------------------------------------
I might have to rethink and recontextualize my preference for moderate positions vis a vis the Conservatives, which calibrate higher. I have to go "up" and not "left". Where is the "center," I wonder?
08 August 2005, 08:21 PM
Brad I might have to rethink and recontextualize my preference for moderate positions vis a vis the Conservatives, which calibrate higher. I have to go "up" and not "left". Where is the "center," I wonder?I knew that if you hung around me long enough, MM, that I could eventually change your mind. But seriously, you needn�t narrow things down to those choices, especially since I believe YA AIN�T GOT A CONSERVATIVE BONE IN YOUR BODY!!!
What I would recommend (and goodness knows the country needs this, if only as something to replace the loony left) is for you to spearhead a movement for the reawakening and re-energization of true Jeffersonian-style liberalism. That�s not to say that Jefferson didn�t have some major holes in his thinking. No man is perfect. But he was pretty darn
good:
"The essential principles of our Government... form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty and safety." --1st Inaugural Address, 1801.
"The principles of Jefferson are the axioms of a free society." --Abraham Lincoln
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable rights; that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." --Declaration of Independence as originally written by Thomas Jefferson, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:315
"That every man shall be made virtuous by any process whatever is, indeed, no more to be expected than that every tree shall be made to bear fruit, and every plant nourishment. The brier and bramble can never become the vine and olive; but their asperities may be softened by culture, and their properties improved to usefulness in the order and economy of the world." --Thomas Jefferson to Cornelius Camden Blatchly, 1822. ME 15:399
"Self-love... is the sole antagonist of virtue, leading us constantly by our propensities to self-gratification in violation of our moral duties to others. Accordingly, it is against this enemy that are erected the batteries of moralists and religionists, as the only obstacle to the practice of morality. Take from man his selfish propensities, and he can have nothing to seduce him from the practice of virtue. Or subdue those propensities by education, instruction or restraint, and virtue remains without a competitor." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Law, 1814. ME 14:140
"[Montesquieu wrote in Spirit of the Laws, III,c.3:] 'When virtue is banished, ambition invades the minds of those who are disposed to receive it, and avarice possesses the whole community." --Thomas Jefferson: copied into his Commonplace Book.
"[Algernon Sidney wrote in Discourses Concerning Government, Sect. II, Par. 8:] 'Those who have no sense of right, reason or religion, have a natural propensity to make use of their strength to the destruction of such as are weaker than they.'" --Thomas Jefferson: copied into his Commonplace Book.
"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson to William C. Jarvis, 1820. ME 15:278
Amen to that last one.
09 August 2005, 12:15 PM
PhilYou keep going with those calibrations, MM, and I just might take another look at Hawkins. Nice to know that the cosmic intelligence thinks conservatives have more integrity than liberals!

09 August 2005, 08:00 PM
spoonboythe doc finally has his own wikipage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_R_Hawkins10 August 2005, 03:37 PM
spoonboyIf you want a high level of consciousness on television, watch National Geographic, History Channel, 700 Club and Oprah Winfrey. Yes, Oprah!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprah_Winfrey "700" Club" 400
Action Movies 180
All in the Family 255
American Idol 180
America's Most Wanted 345
Animal/Nature 405
Bill Cosby Show 385
Biography Channel 405
Broadcast Programming (overall) 275
Cheers 250
Children's Cartoons 180
Children's Programs 355
Crime Programs 180
History, Discovery and Science Channels 405
Homemaking, Decorating and Woodshop 345
I Love Lucy 395
Infomercials 180
Kukla, Fran and Ollie 405
Married With Children 190
MTV 130
Muppets, The 310
National Geographic 450
Oprah Winfrey Show 510
PBS 405
"Reality" Show Contests 125
Sitcoms (Situation Comedies) 180
Sports 375
Sullivan, Ed 435
"Terry Jones Midieval History" 410
Weather 405
Web M.D. 200
10 August 2005, 03:41 PM
spoonboyPhilanthropic Foundations
Gates, Ford, Mellon, Carnegie 400
Kellogg, Pew, Duke, Wal-Mart 400
Lilly, Rockefeller, F.W. Johnson 400
Templeton 500
Wheelchair Foundation (K. Behring) 520
Others 400
This comes as a surprise to me, as I was under the impression that liberals had overrun the foundations. Wonder where right-wing paranoia calibrates?

11 August 2005, 05:16 PM
spoonboySince we are having a discussion in another thread about
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin and comparing their influence to the likes of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II and have also discussed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama I would mention at this point that Calvin and Luther calibrate at 580, and His Holiness and His Holiness
both calibrate at 570.
Since 99.99% of us never reach such exalted states, I consider myself fortunate to live in a world influence by such grace and light!

22 August 2005, 11:21 AM
spoonboyIntelligent Design heads the list of scientific theories. Here's the list:
Attractor Fields (Non-linear Dynamics) 460
"Big Bang" Source-of-Universe Theory False
Biofield 460
Black Hole Theory rev. 2004 (Hawking) 455
Bootstrap Theory 455
Chaos Theory 455
Collective Unconscious (Jung) 455
Consciousness as Consequence of Neuronal Activity
140
Consciousness Calibration 605
Darwinian Theory of Evolution 450
Dinasaur Extinction Theory 200
Dirac Equations 455
Discovery of Double Helix of DNA 460
"Distant Healing" False
(Divinity as Source of Universe) Infinite
Drake Equation 350
Earth's Magnetic Field Weakening True
Earth Slowly Reversing Magnetic Poles 460
Earth Warming Due to Pollution False
Earth Warming Due to Solar Magnetic Surface Cycles
455
E=mc2 455
Entanglement (Quantum Theory) False
Frame Dragging 460
"God" gene False
"Greenhouse" gas Earthwarming theory False
Heartmath 460
Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle 460
Hormesis 180
"Holographic Universe" 395
Inflation Theory (post-Big-Bang) 450
Intelligent Design 480
Microbe Organisms on Mars True
Mind Fields Entangled with Divinity True
Mind Fields Entangled with Others False
Morphic Resonance 460
Morphogenetic Fields (Sheldrake) 460
M-Theory (formerly String Theory) 460
Multiple Universes True
Newtonian Causality Principle 460
Nonlinear Dynamics 460
Prayer Increases Healing True
Nuclear Fission (actuality) 200
Nuclear Fission Theory 455
Organisms on Mars True
Parallel Universe Theory False
Quantum Coherance 460
Quantum Gravity 460
Quantum Mechanics 460
Schrodinger Equations 455
Singularities 455
S-Matrix Theory 455
Spiritual Experience as Consequence of Neuronal Activity 125
"Steady State" Theory of Ongoing Expansion of Universe 405
Stem Cell Research 245
Subparticle Physics 455
Telekinesis True
Teleportation of Quantum States (electrons in ions) 400
United States Space Program 400
von Neuman Process 450
Water on Mars True
22 August 2005, 12:09 PM
PhilMultiple Universes - True
I thought the definition of a "universe" was that there could only be one (uni) of them. I wonder what was actually being tested.
Distant Healing - False
That's just plain wrong. I've been in on several situations where this is happened.
Stem Cell Research - 245
That's surprising. I wonder why?
Nuclear Fission Theory - 455
Good call -- after we've exploded quite a few a-bombs, it would seem the theory has been well-verified.
(Just fooling around, here, MM, but I don't see the point in some of these calibarations.)
23 August 2005, 01:26 PM
spoonboyJesus performed healing from a distance, so, I wonder about that one too. Here's another list:
Marginal Spiritual/Religious Belief Systems (Ideology)
Atheist Movement (Ideology) 190
Christian Identity Movement (Ideology) 110
Aum Shenriko Cult 85
Aztec Religion 85
Channeling 195
Crop Circles Extraterrestrial? No
Cults 50-160
Divination 185
DNA Code Theology (Ideology) 160
Easter Island Statues 70
Extraterrestrials Real? No
Fortune Telling 185
Full-Moon Gatherings (New Age) 180
Goddess Movement 190
Heaven's Gate Cult 160
Incan Religion 85
Incoming Fifth World (Ideology) 130
"Left Behind" Apocalyptic Ideology 190
Mayan Religion 95
New Ageism 185
Solar Temple (Ideology) 155
Plasma Energy Orbs (Ideology) 160
Polygamous Sects 135
Raeliens (Ideology) 130
Right-Wing Fundamentalist Christian (Ideology) 95
Secularism 165
Shroud of Turin Real? No
Star Children (Ideology) 160
Star People (Ideology) 160
Starseed Family 145
Tantra (Modern) 95
UFUs Real? No
Urantia Book (Ideology) 150
Wicca (Ideology) 160
23 August 2005, 02:49 PM
spoonboyThe Social Impact of Famous Persons
Astronauts 460
Baker, Josephine 445
Balanchine, George 430
Bell, Alexander Graham 450
Booth, John Wilkes 135
Bryant, William Jennings 450
Carnegie, Andrew 490
Carnegie, Dale 420
Carsen, Rachel 485
Carver, George Washington 435
Chisolm, Shirley 400
Churchill, Winston 510
Columbus Christopher 375
Comstock, Anthony 250
Darrow, Clarence 455
de Mille, Agnes 425
DiMaggio, Joe 480
Duncan, Isadora 460
Earhart, Emilia 395
Eisenhower, Dwight D. 480
F.D.R. Fireside Chats 500
Franklin, Benjamin 480
Geronimo 445
Gorbachev, Mikhail 500
Graham, Martha 420
Henry, Patrick 445
Hoover, J. Edgar 255
Jones, Bobby 485
Keller, Helen 520
Kubler-Ross, Elizabeth 485
LaGuardia, Fiorello 460
Lee, Bruce 480
Lewis and Clark 440
Lindberg, Charles 395
Mandela, Nelson 505
Markova, Alecia 475
Marrick, Joseph, the Elephant Man 590
Najinski 530
Nation, Carrie 235
Nightingale, Florence 465
Oswald, Lee Harvey 180
Peale, Norman Vincent 435
Reagan, Ronald (President) 500
Ruth, Babe 440
Rockne, Knute 455
Rogers, Fred ("Mister Rogers") 500
Roosevelt, Eleanor 495
Ruby, Jack 180
Shriver, Sergeant 460
Sitting Bull 420
Tubman, Harriet 350
Washington, Booker T. 460
Washington, George 455
Wright Brothers 455
Zanuck Daryl 425
23 August 2005, 02:56 PM
spoonboyScience-Clinical
Acupuncture 405
America's Best Hospitals 450
Clinical Kinesiology 600
Clinical Psychology 380
Consciousness Levels Calibration 605
DBT Psychology 385
Energy Medicine 460
Homeopathy 200
Internal Medicine 440
Medicine, General 440
Medicine Holistic 440
Oriental Medicine 395
Pharmacology 450
Psychiatry 440
Psychoanalysis (Freud) 460
Psychoanalysis (Jung) 460
Surgery 440
23 August 2005, 07:33 PM
BradMM, I take it that these listing are free game for commentary/critiquing/curmudgeoning.
The Social Impact of Famous Persons
Astronauts 460Is "social impact" defined as real social impact or as a popularity opinion poll? How, exactly, do astronauts make such a significant social impact? Surely the scientists behind space flight technology do.
Gorbachev, Mikhail 500]
My father was a Gorby fan. I never quite could convince him that he was just a failed Communist who accidentally stumbled into fame by being an even worse economic reforming. The only way to reform Communism is to dump in on the scrap heap of history, something Boris Yeltsin definitely had a hand in.
Hoover, J. Edgar 255Certainly Hoover has fallen out of favor in recent years. But one could quite easily argue that his impact, while often heavy-handed, was very, very positive in terms of defending us all from some truly bad guys. I�d add another couple hundred points to his score and pull my head out of my PC attitudes.
Washington, George 455That�s WAY too low. My goodness, why is Eleanor Roosevelt higher at 495? That�s truly a joke.
Rogers, Fred ("Mister Rogers") 500Well, at least he didn�t screw this one up, even thought that would have been tough to do in this case.
24 August 2005, 03:59 AM
michaelHere is an excellent critique of Hawkins work.
http://tinyurl.com/94vs2 I posted this on a Hawkins Yahoo group forum hoping to get a meaningful discussion going. I believe the points raised by this article are indicative of a pattern of criticism regarding Hawkins work and it was worth throwing around some issues raised.
Ha !! what an idiot I am thinking this was a good idea!
The moderator; God Bless him, he is a nice guy, was not to keen on it and closed the discussion down.
I just feel it�s good to see what others think both good and bad�.
I don�t get reactive either way. I just use it to dig deeper and learn more.
Life is not all green lights!
Michael
PS.- some of the more recent reviews on Truth vs Falsehood on amazon.com have gone down a different road to the initial ones
http://tinyurl.com/djmpr PSS I was surprised non-voters are at 90 yet anarchists are at 100!!
24 August 2005, 06:17 PM
PhilFrom the article critiquing Hawkins' approach:
quote:
Truth is central to Hawkins' motivation for developing his system. In his world view, he sees humankind's inability to distinguish between truth and falsehood as its basic defect � a defect that he believes muscle testing will compensate for. He believes that by returning to a "Newtonian" framework of absolute objectivity, which is in essence what he has done, he can get rid of the modern relativism and postmodernism that many of us in modern societies have to reluctantly face. . .
Hawkins wants to unite humankind in an absolute framework of truth. He wants to convince the world that HIS truth is THE objective truth, and he does this by presenting simple muscle-testing as the arbiter of all things. This actually makes him, by definition, a fundamentalist, and is driven by that same fundamentalist drive to convince all people of his reality � a one dimensional calibration of truth from 1 to 1000.
Touche' And that was a superb article, MM. Thank you so much for bringing it to our attention. Maybe you should add it to the end of that other Hawkins thread sometime. Those were the kinds of points I was trying to make, only this author has gone to great lengths to spell them out.
There is a value in all those calibrations, however. As I noted above, they tell us the unconscious perspective Hawkins and co. have on things. Turns out he's a pretty conservative guy who thinks rather highly of his own work.
Edit: tell us more about that forum, MM. What's the URL? Why can't they even discuss an article like this? Do you think they're Hawkins groupies?
24 August 2005, 07:36 PM
Bradquote:
The first clue to the shortcomings of Hawkins' calibration theory is his intellectualism: Force vs Power is a very dry read. Whenever something relatively simple is presented in an intellectual and scientific manner way beyond what is necessary or justifiable, you know that you may well be staring at a nude emperor.
I think that�s a great observation.
quote:
If you strip down Hawkins' work to its bare essentials, you have a man that is basically dowsing for God. He is taking the whisperings of the subconscious as absolute measure of all things, even something as abstract as "truth". But surely, to understand whether this is justified, we need to understand what the subconscious is and what truth is. Without examining these terms, we end up making meaningless assertions, such as "a cat's purr calibrates at 500".
Yep.
MM said:
The moderator; God Bless him, he is a nice guy, was not to keen on it and closed the discussion down.Are you saying that the Hawkins Yahoo group basically will not put up with criticism? Sounds very cultish to me. If so, I�m not surprised. The nature of Hawkins� work always sounded fundamentally flawed and more than a bit odd.
24 August 2005, 07:58 PM
Brad There is a value in all those calibrations, however. As I noted above, they tell us the unconscious perspective Hawkins and co. have on things. Turns out he's a pretty conservative guy who thinks rather highly of his own work.LOL. Touch� to you as well! I would think that any tool that could help uncover the unconscious would be useful. Perhaps someone has taken that technique and instead of looking for absolutes (which is surely a waste of time using that technique) looks for hidden thoughts and desire. One would think marketers would pay big money for a technique that could show what people really are thinking and what they really desire.
25 August 2005, 03:16 AM
michael �One would think marketers would pay big money for a technique that could show what people really are thinking and what they really desire.� You could in a sense but kinesiology has an inherent built in safety factor.
You always ask first before you test �is this question in my highest good and for all concerned�
If you get a �no� then you leave it. That�s it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel one of the main reasons Hawkins draws criticism is he talks in absolutes, as that article states.
Absolutes are a big No No in a society which has its intellectual and academic structures well entrenched in pluralistic relativism; or the GREEN meme for those familiar with Spiral Dynamics.
Ken Wilber outlines this dilemma well
When pluralistic relativism takes over, it claims that all truth is culturally situated (except its own truth, which is true for all cultures);
it claims that there are no transcendental truths (except its own pronouncements, which transcend specific contexts);
it claims that all hierarchies or value rankings are oppressive and marginalizing (except its own value ranking, which is superior to the alternatives);
it claims that there are no universal truths (except its own pluralism, which is universally true for all people).
Hawkins stance from this point of view looks like a decent back down to the Blue Meme �
Life has meaning, direction, and purpose, with outcomes determined by an all-powerful Other or Order. This righteous Order enforces a code of conduct based on absolutist and unvarying principles of "right" and "wrong." Violating the code or rules has severe, perhaps everlasting repercussions.
Hawkins being the age he is has been brought up is a Blue meme world and that is the way he expresses himself.
His language is not couched in �New age� niceties.
These facts alone are enough to push buttons.
The beauty of systems like Spiral Dynamics it gives you a clue what value filters are being used.
I have been a member on some Hawkins yahoo groups for a couple of years now.
By and large they are a decent bunch. Cultish �.not really
However they are well ensconced in the Green meme �new age� world view. Hence a ill-defined politically and spiritually correct mine field must be tread to deal with these Hawkins devotees.
Or �BOOM!!!!!
Michael