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posted
Howard Storm, former athiest, testifies that he went to hell following the death of his body. Here's the first of a 5-part utube interview of his story.

I don't think he's delusional or making this up. I do wonder how much abuse and sadism existed in his upbringing prior to these demonic encounters.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_GmifF8Fkc

Part 2 (he gets into the evil spirits that attacked him, calling out to God, which the spirits couldn't tolerate, calling out to Jesus, and being lifted up...very moving):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...6Z0M&feature=related

He woke up a very different man, was/is a pastor of Zion United Church of Christ in Ohio.

There's also a book, "23 Minutes in Hell" by Bill Wiese. The author was not near death at all, but the Lord told him he sent him there, wiped out his memory/knowledge of Christ so he could see the horror of what happens to those are are not saved. He shared that Jesus brought him out and told him to tell others.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shasha,
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here's the wiki description of Howard Storm, for those who prefer to read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Storm
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here's Bill Wiese' story of his descent to hell. He woke up screaming and rocking on the floor in a fetal position. Begged his wife to pray for him.

This man seems very genuine, meek, simple. His testimony has striking similarities to Storm's. This is a must see!

http://video.google.com/videop...=648563944666093503#

Go to 19 minutes into the video if you want to skip the intro.
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Shasha and everyone...


thank you for posting this!

these days so many people seriously believe there is no hell.. this is truly a trick of the devil in this modern age...this must grieve our Lord's heart so.. i know it does mine.

it is so vital to pray for those who do not yet know the love God! one soul lost is almost to much for me to bear.. i cannot even imagine what it does to Jesus...

Howard is a humble man.. there is no doubt in my heart and mind that his story is legitimate.

i have sent these links to many non believers....

may God have mercy on all souls who do not know Him or believe in Him.. esp. those who have most need of His mercy at this hour....
 
Posts: 281 | Registered: 19 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes, very interesting. I'd heard of Howard Storm's experience somewhere and was aware that not all NDEs are positive (though his turned out to be). James Monroe also encountered malevolent spirits in some of his out-of-body explorations. A number of Catholic Saints and mystics have had visions of hell as well. There's a lot of sobering info out there if anyone is interested.

Of course, the skeptic will come back and raise questions about what's really going on with NDEs. In Storm's case, it might be said that it was the way his brain was interpreting his illness, especially under the influence of drugs -- sort of a drug-induced nightmare. What's important, I believe, is that grace was able to work through the process, however one explains it.
 
Posts: 3570 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by faustina:

these days so many people seriously believe there is no hell.. this is truly a trick of the devil in this modern age.....


Right, did you see Bill Wiese's testimony? He says Jesus finally appeared to him to rescue him from the demons who were tormenting him (go to 39 minutes in to the clip). Bill fell to the ground and wept in His Holy presence. He shared that he asked Jesus "Why did you send me to this place [hell]?" and Jesus replied, "Because people do not believe this place exists...even some of my own people don't believe this place is real...I want you to go tell them, tell them this place is real." Bill thought immediately, who's going to believe me? They're going to think I'm crazy. And Jesus answered his thoughts, "It's not your job to convict their hearts; it's the Holy Spirit's. It's your job to just tell them; I'll convict their hearts...I don't want anybody to go to this place!"

Yes, Howard Storm's story is definitely genuine, and I think Bill's story is also.
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Phil:
... A number of Catholic Saints and mystics have had visions of hell as well. ....


Yes, here's a site that has about a dozen stories of the Saint's experiences of hell. I remembered reading that St. Catherine of Siena had some very explicit visions of hell.

http://christtotheworld.blogsp...-four-principal.html

What about you Phil, have you ever had such experiences or know people who have?
 
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OK, last post on this...I promise.

Did you know St. Faustina also had a vision of hell? Again, there's a lot of overlap in these details with both Howard Storm's and Bill Wiese's experiences.

---------------
Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence...the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell." (Diary 741)

"Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw:

The First Torture that constitutes hell is:

The loss of God.

The Second is:
Perpetual remorse of conscience.

The Third is
That one's condition will never change.

The Fourth is:
The fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God's anger.

The Fifth Torture is:
Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.

The Sixth Torture is:
The constant company of Satan.

The Seventh Torture is:
Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.

These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings.

Indescribable Sufferings
There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.

I would have died
There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me.

No One Can Say There is No Hell
Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like...how terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God's mercy upon them. O My Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin." (Diary 741)
----------------
from this excellent website: http://christtotheworld.blogsp...-vision-of-hell.html
 
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Thanks for the info, Shasha. Sounds like Hell! Wink

One thing to keep in mind in all this is that the souls in Hell do NOT really want to be with God, so it's not like they're being deprived of some reward they've earned or desired. What they come to is life with other like-minded selfish, narcissistic souls and spirits, who can really interact with and bring consequences to one another. The greatest mercy of God regarding such creatures would be to "unmake" them, and perhaps God will. I'm sure it gives God no pleasure that they suffer so.
 
Posts: 3570 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What I find so hard to understand is who in their right mind would choose to reject God, and go to "hell".. Not being in one's right mind, to me, would suggest that person is not subjectivly guilty.. but is sick.

Personally I believe we can experience hell right here in this life.. and it can continue into the next life ... into eternal life where it is still possible to be healed, to learn and to grow.

My two cents... Oh, I saw my post from 2007 has come up.. about me feeling I was in hell when I was in the hospital in 1976... timely huh! Maybe that post should be moved to this thread.


Katy
 
Posts: 535 | Location: Sarasota, Florida | Registered: 17 November 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Katy,

I totally agree with you: we can experience hell on earth. There are children who are tormented in the very ways which are described by these mystics who visited hell. And this abuse is by their own parents!

And I am also puzzled by this idea of "who in their right mind would choose to reject God?" It seems more of an illness than out of a rational free will. Why would God send sick people to hell to be punished for their sick choices? So something doesn't add up if He's a loving God, but I accept that He has the perfect combination of mercy and justice--beyond my calculations. Mt has also shared along these lines.

And where has you 2007 post come up?
 
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Shasha, here is the link:

http://shalomplace.org/eve/for...10765/m/78210765/p/5

Also I wonder what is the difference between justice and punishment?
 
Posts: 535 | Location: Sarasota, Florida | Registered: 17 November 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
And I am also puzzled by this idea of "who in their right mind would choose to reject God?" It seems more of an illness than out of a rational free will. Why would God send sick people to hell to be punished for their sick choices? So something doesn't add up if He's a loving God, but I accept that He has the perfect combination of mercy and justice--beyond my calculations. Mt has also shared along these lines.


Shasha and Katy, the possibility of Hell naturally follows from the affirmation of free-will. If we truly are free, then we are free to reject God. Hell implies a total rejection, however, and we wonder if/how people could do that. The answer of scripture seems to be a resounding "Yes," and it is a sickness -- sin sickness.

The way I think it usually works is not out of some explicit, conscious rejection of God and endorsement of the devil's agenda. Rather, it's more likely to be a consequence of slowly, gradually, going to sleep spiritually and morally . . . of having the conscience gradually numbed . . . of the heart losing its sensitivity . . . of reason being corrupted . . . of self-absorption becoming all-consuming. Addictions lead in this direction, and so do certain ideologies. Eventually, the soul has no room for God and isn't even interested in the joys of heaven. That seems to be what happened to Howard Storm and others.

As long as a soul has the slightest openness to God, I think the Spirit will do everything possible to move the person to surrender. There is another realm in opposition to God, however, and they work to discourage such souls from converting.
 
Posts: 3570 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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All,

Sometimes it seems to me that advancing in the spiritual life is akin to walking on a tightwire that spans the abyss over the world the flesh and the devil.

That walk requires tension in the tightwire – a tension created by the reality of God’s mercy on one end and God’s justice on the other. By hell and heaven. By sin and grace. By service to truth and service in love.

And one does a real disservice to the advancement of our growth and the continuance of our redemption / salvation when one denies the viability of any of these aspects of revealed reality.

When the wire goes limp because of the erroneous slighting of all or any of the necessary revealed realities we are unable to advance and fall into the abyss.

Pop-pop
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Phil:
... Eventually, the soul has no room for God and isn't even interested in the joys of heaven. That seems to be what happened to Howard Storm and others.

As long as a soul has the slightest openness to God, I think the Spirit will do everything possible to move the person to surrender. ....


Yes, it seems Storm was rescued from hell by first grabbing at a small voice inside that said "pray to God," which he said he didn't know how to do. But then discovered that just the word God repelled the demons. Then he took hold of a memory of singing a Jesus song as a little boy. This tiny thread was apparently enough to move him to surrender.
 
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Hi Katy,

Ah, yes, I do remember reading about your experience in the hospital. Very horrible, unforgettable isn't it? But you see God's hand of love too, don't you, in pushing you to become so proactive in self-care in all directions, physically, emotionally, spiritually. Glad you're here with us, Katy. I hope SP has been part of your recovery/healing journey, as it has mine.

I know this discussion of hell has increased my awareness too about what forms of hell I've endured and how I want to consciously choose heaven.
 
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Thanks Phil for your helpful comments on this topic..

Shasha, the thing is at the time that happened I was really "into" the charismatic prayer meetings, etc. and had chosen God long ago.. and of course had been baptized as infant and raised and educated in a catholic environment and schools.. but I know, it was part of my journey, and yes, it sure did turn me in the other direction as far as taking care of myself in every way I could.. even a whole website .. many years later, all about holistic health..

Thanks so much for your understanding and kind words..

Hey Pop pop.. thank you too.. and have you looked at my web site holystic.com I'm afraid you may not approve of a lot of it though.. but on the other hand you might learn something new :-))

Katy
 
Posts: 535 | Location: Sarasota, Florida | Registered: 17 November 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A friend just sent me this. It's another testimony about a 'near' death experience of an athiest. Very much like Storm's account. This simple, Romanian man reminds me quite a bit of my dad. He describes being taken initially by the devil into hell, praying to God for the first time in his life, Jesus coming to rescue him, and angels taking him into a piece of Heaven.

After viewing a couple of these accounts, I notice how many similarities there are across these very different personalities with very different histories. Their tears really move me. While details vary across these accounts, there is the same torment of hell, the same desperate cry for release, the same all powerful Jesus who rescues them, and the same sense of being undeserving of such love...

Judith MacNutt once said she believes Jesus does meet everybody at the point of death.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Be1IEtCwQg
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Shasha:
OK, last post on this...I promise.

Did you know St. Faustina also had a vision of hell? Again, there's a lot of overlap in these details with both Howard Storm's and Bill Wiese's experiences.

---------------
Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence...the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell." (Diary 741)

"Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw:

The First Torture that constitutes hell is:

The loss of God.

The Second is:
Perpetual remorse of conscience.

The Third is
That one's condition will never change.

The Fourth is:
The fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God's anger.

The Fifth Torture is:
Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.

The Sixth Torture is:
The constant company of Satan.

The Seventh Torture is:
Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.

These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings.

Indescribable Sufferings
There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.

I would have died
There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me.

No One Can Say There is No Hell
Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like...how terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God's mercy upon them. O My Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin." (Diary 741)
----------------
from this excellent website: http://christtotheworld.blogsp...-vision-of-hell.html


One thing that has always struck me as quite interesting is how the torments of hell are almost perfect inverses of the joys of heaven. If you take each step, as ordered above, and, show them in the opposite light, as one being immersed in the presence of God, it seems to flow very much the same.

1) the gain of God (upon being sanctified...or going to heaven)
2) perpetual joy of gain
3) that one's condition will never change
4) The light of God that will illuminate the spirit, soul and body without destroying it. An amazing, ecstatic, joyous pleasure since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God's love.
5) Continual light and a terrific intoxicating smell, and because of the light, the angels and the souls of the saved see each other and all the goodness, both of others and their own.
6) the constant company of Christ, the holy spirit and God the father.
7) ultimate fulfillment, love of God, life-giving words, blessings and praises.

I remember the myth of Er (Plato - the Republic) where all souls travel to the same place to be judged. (I am kind of forming my thoughts as I write...so, bear with me please.) In the same way, all will go before God and be judged. The light mentioned in the myth parallels the glory of the new Jerusalem. I have an intuition that the same presence, God's spirit, is what brings joy to the believer and agony to the damned. As fire burns one, it warms another. It would seem how our souls and spirits stand in the presence of God, whether with love and appreciation, or, with hatred and revilement, so too will our experience of being in his presence. Much of the progression of those steps listed above sounds like a soul drawing closer to the King. I would liken it, in my imagination, to one being drawn closer and closer to something that either repels (of attracts) one. Very much like magnetism. For one, it would be a horrific agony, suffering on every plane possible. For the other, the precise opposite reaction...this too, on every level. When we stand before God, the dross being burned off will feel freeing, if we are willing to let go of our mortal coils in exchange for his glory. Yet, if we hold onto our temporal vessels, as the damned feel compelled to do, believing in those shells lie greater things, the pain would be unbearable. In this torment they would be God to send them away, thereby causing their own judgement and rejection from the things of God. I know this is off the reservation, so to speak, but, it really seems like we are our own witnesses, and, through our own choices reject God after life as we do in it. Accept him now and you will be free to be with him later. Just some thoughts...

Whoops, meant to add (in reply to the original thread): there is as much evidence for heaven as for hell. Both require supernatural revelation, of whatever kind, to understand, know, and, experientially grasp the reality of such things. Science can never accept proof of heaven as the very essence of science, as is practiced at large today, is antithetical to the concept of the knowable unknown. Additionally, with concepts such as repeatability at the core of science, the mystical experiences used to share such revelations are beyond the power of man to control. As a result man rejects its validity to persist in the vain denial of science's limits as if such things never were, are, or, will be. Sadly, a blind eye is turned to truly amazing aspects of creation, the bridges between time and timelessness, heaven and earth, his kingdom and our realm.
 
Posts: 20 | Location: United States | Registered: 30 January 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi wlsteele,

Thanks for your reflections here.

I like the "inverse" list you came up with! Indeed, the mystical revelations of heaven provided by the Saints are consistent with your list. But I'm guessing that though hell and heaven are quite opposite, they are more different than even those superlative descriptors can capture.

About evidence, yes I regard the revelations of Saints as sufficient 'evidence' for me.
 
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I think what I was trying to say, but, never got it out is: I have an intuition that both the saved and the damned go through the same exact events. That is to say, the same stages, the same steps, in the same order. What differs is the experience for those souls. As one who is saves steps forward to his king, one who is damned steps forward to his enemy. As one who feels the joy of His presence, the other writhes in agony. It's literally as if the same external events happens, but, the internal events are completely different depending on the soul to which they are occurring. Lord, help me to say things more clearly. Smiler
 
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Here's a powerful quote from St. John of Rusybroeck on the means to divine union and how the impeding of this is hell. Lots to chew on in this one.
quote:
Now all holiness and all blessedness lie in this: that the spirit is led upwards, through likeness and by means of grace or glory, to rest in the essential unity. For the grace of God is the way by which we must always go, if we would enter into the naked essence in which God gives Himself with all His riches without means. And this is why the sinners and the damned spirits dwell in darkness; for they lack the grace of God, which should enlighten them, and lead them, and show them the way to the fruitive unity. Yet the essential being of the spirit is so noble, that even the damned cannot will their own annihilation. But sin builds up a barrier, and gives rise to such darkness and such unlikeness between the powers and the essence in which God lives, that the spirit cannot be united with its proper essence; which would be its own and its eternal rest, did sin not impede it. For whosoever lives without sin, he lives in likeness unto God, and in grace, and God is his own. And so we have need of grace, which casts out sin, and prepares the way, and makes our whole life fruitful. And this is why Christ always comes into us through means, that is, through grace and multifarious gifts; and we too go out towards Him through means, that is, through virtues and diverse practices. And the more inward gifts He gives and the more deeply He stirs us, the more inward and delightful are the workings of our spirit, as you have already heard in all the ways which have been shown forth before. And here there is a perpetual renewal; for God ever gives new gifts, and our spirit ever turns inward in such wise as it is invited and as is bestowed on it by God, and in that meeting it always receives a higher renewal. And thus one grows continually into a higher life. And this active meeting is altogether through means; for the gifts of God and our virtues and the activity of our spirit are the means. And these means are necessary for all men and all spirits: for, without the mediation of God’s grace and a loving turning to Him in freedom, no creature shall ever be saved.

- Chapter 60: Showing how we have need of grace of God, which makes us like unto God and leads us to God without means.
 
Posts: 3570 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Interestingly, those few saintly mystics who were given visions of hell, did not report that the place was largely empty after all; except for Ananias and Sapphira, the rich man from the Lazarus parable, a couple of women who might have been (hard to see clearly through the smoke and flames) Herodias and her dancer daughter -- and of course Judas, though paperwork was being filled out to effect his pardon and release since he had merely betrayed Christ to fulfill scripture (what a guy!).

But who will believe private revelation when they won’t believe public revelation concerning hell?

Hey, did you happen to catch the Barbara Walters show this weekend on Heaven and hell? Evidently some scientists have discovered the God gene in the DNA of believers! LOL, how’s that for proof of predestination? Aiyee.
 
Posts: 465 | Registered: 20 October 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by pop-pop:
Hey, did you happen to catch the Barbara Walters show this weekend on Heaven and hell? Evidently some scientists have discovered the God gene in the DNA of believers!


Didn't see that. But I have been reading all over the place last week that evidence has been sighted for the existence of the "God particle."
 
Posts: 927 | Location: Canada | Registered: 03 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Derek,

Yeah, that's probably why Judas is being let go. DNA evidence has cleared him. He didn't have the God gene/particle.

God will make all things work for good. Judas will be given a crown perhaps.

Surprising that Christ didn't know about the God gene. Guess God isn't as smart as us after all.

Good thing so many of us are being deified these days. We can give Him an update. In His wondrous humility Christ will accept our enlightened knowledge graciously, I'm sure.

Pop-pop

Maybe Pluto will become a planet again someday, too. It had been relegated to our simple solar system, but all things work for good, eh? Science rocks! Or Pluto may become a character in a Disney movie. Lot of stars in Hollywood.
 
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