Something caught my eye here, so . . . .

Jesus was transfigured and appeared along with Moses and Elijah in a similar manner to the disciples. Because they were as real as Jesus' own physical presence, the disciples saw a need to accomodate them with dwellings. To call this merely a vision or hologram is to raise a question about Jesus' transfiguration that can't be answered in such ways.

quote:

To call this merely a vision.....

Jesus is the One who called it a vision: "Tell the vision to no man..."

Wopik, you really do get lost in semantics, straining at a nat and swallowing a camel.

It was a vision to the disciples, not to Jesus; it was a physical transformation of the body of Christ into the light of the Father, a prelude to His resurrection. The disciples saw Jesus, his physical being, revealed for its deeper nature, along with the appearance of the souls of the prophets, who can only appear to mortal human sight as a vision. Anybody seeing an aspect of heaven sees a vision of heaven, not yet able to enter it while physically alive. Hence, vision . . . as in revelation. If it were a purely ephemeral occurence as you describe, Jesus would have been as unaffected physically as the disciples were.

Of all the people who post at Shalom, you seem most scared of God. Do you really think you're going to figure all this stuff out? Mystery is meant for engaging relationship, for being known by the Other, not for dissecting until there's nothing left to know but disassembled parts. You treat the Bible like my auto-mechanic treats my car.

Yes, w.c.

There's so much mystery and wonder in Christ's transfiguration and in the appearance of the prophets - a vision of His true spiritual nature, the light of the world shining upon the astonished disciples. One is led into Paul's account of the body of glory at the end of Corinthians and our own true nature revealed as Sons of God. Truly wonderful!

Well, I'm back from the big island, and read most of the replies on this topic I had copied. I can't possibly check out all the scriptures, facts and figures, etc. I do wonder though, how time and space "fit" into all this. I read several statements referring to heaven as "up". Also, yes, the spiritual realm is more real than the physical.
Just a couple of my thoughts so far.

Katy

Katy,

I think there are parallels between the physical world and the spiritual, in that the notions of up and down have spiritual counterparts. This goes beyond mere metaphor, while not exactly representing literal space. So then, when Christ ascended, He went up and disappeared in a cloud. I don't think He travelled up, up, up through space to a heaven located beyond the edge of the universe, but that the physical idea of rising has a metaphysical connectedness to spiritual ascension, travelling up in a spiritual sense and crossing over into the spiritual world while physically rising. Similarly, the idea of going down to hell, expresses, a kind of spiritual downward path, a sinking. In this sense the dimensions of the two worlds, spiritual and physical, are interconnected. Again, it goes beyond metaphor, as if heaven really is above our heads, but in a different dimension, and hell is below our feet, again in a different dimension.

I hope this is clear. It can be kind of difficult to explain, and really, it's only a theory.

Stephen,

Thanks very much. Yes that helps. Can you say any more about it, as I am very interested in the topic of time, space, ascension, dimensions and the like.

Anyone else?

Katy

Here is an interesting Link about incorruptible saints, about Enoch, and about "Light" bodies.

http://www.snowlionpub.com/pages/N59_9.php

Katy

Katy:

I've followed this with some interest, having read about it years ago when I was a practicing Tibetan Buddhist.

Some things to point out, from a Christian perspective, about this phenomenon:

Jesus' transfiguration, and the partial rematerialization of Moses and Elijah with him before Peter, James and John, are not equated with Jesus' resurrection, which was a bodily transformation, and not a light body, as is the case with the Tibetan tradition of the "Rainbow Body." There are no records, to my knowledge, of Tibetan masters dying, and then being resurrected, or fully returned, to the former vitality of their bodily life.

But this is not the main point to make from a Christian perspective. Whereas the Rainbow Body claims to be the energetic transformation of a creature, the resurrection claims Jesus as the second person of the Trinity, the uncreated experiencing actual death, with any light body being perhaps his ascension, not the days he spent bodily with the disciples prior to it.

See http://members.aol.com/ccmail/incorruptbodies.html for a good review of a few Catholic Saints with incorruptible bodies. It's an interesting and mysterious phenomenon, about which the Catholic Church makes no theological or spiritual affirmations.

Good reply above, w.c. Even if it could be conclusively demonstrated that a great mystic from any tradition assumed/transformed their physical body into spirit, this does not equate to the same thing as Christ's resurrection. Indeed, it may well be that the first humans (spiritual soul) were destined to "pass over" into the next world, physical body and all. Christ's resurrection signifies a further development--a conquering of death itself and a new foundation for human nature. Henceforth, the spiritual soul finds its "home" in the life-giving energy of Christ's risen body.