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Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Christian Morality and Theology Faith and Doubt Today, Redux - the phenomenon of modern disbeliefPage 1 2
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| Faith and Doubt Today, Redux - the phenomenon of modern disbelief
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More Polkinghorne |
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One of my favorite philosophers is Mortimer Adler. This was written before his death:
Mortimer Adler: Great Thinker and What He Thought About God Continuing with Dr. Daryl McCarthy : Now, this comes from a philsopher who had his qualms about Aquinas and classical proofs for God's existence, although one can clearly see, above, the causal and teleological arguments. I don't view Adler's arguments as any more logically coercive than those of Aquinas and Anselm although I do view them as those auxiliary hypotheses constellated around a reasonable ontological core commitment. The point I wish to make here, is that there is an experiential difference between believing in a personal God, such as philosophically deduced by Adler, and a personal God with whom a creature could relate. So, if we accept that, due to intelligence at work in Creation, there must be a personal God, we haven't philosophically demonstrated the goodness of God-His benevolent love for those He created, a Divine Person who hears and answers prayers and forgives our sins. We haven't demomstrated any divine relational attribute or intentionality attribute as might be directed toward inter-relations between Creator and creatures. My point is that, even if a great mind like Adler could philosophically come to terms with God's existence through very compelling metaphysical inferences, still, there will remain a leap of faith to take one from the deistic to the Abrahamic monotheistic conception. Adler made this leap, eventually, and one can read about it here . It is at this point that we come to the end of the metaphysical aspect of my reflection, for we can go no further, merely philosophically -- not to say it hasn't been a grand journey of human reason, looking for God. Dr. Daryl McCarthy And this is the point Phil has stuck to, tenaciously, and for good reason. Again: Our challenge today is to consider the evidences surrounding us which affirm the existence of the great, infinite (unlimited), personal God-the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He has been such a good friend and an inspiration over thirty years (1973-2003) that I felt responsible for marrying our perspectives together in this thread without making him labor in his noisy house to accomplish the same thing. I will close with this link: EVIDENCE FOR THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST: A Challenge for Skeptics by Peter Kreeft/Fr. Ronald Tacelli, SJ And I will further suggest that Pascal's Wager is nothing to be ashamed of. It seems clearly smarter than wagering in the opposite direction when placing such important philosophic bets, with such outcomes of great existential import and great moment for us all. See Pascal's Wager Redux and have a great Valentine's Day, speaking of which, remember, God is a seductress but if you don't at least try to engage Her in conversation and you cannot quite come to terms with the notion that She wants to have Her way with YOU, then you'll forever sit in your front yard in a philosophical lawn chair, sipping the insipient brewskis of a Buberlesque I-It beverage while waiting for the Empress to parade nude down your otherwise booberless metaphysical street, while all the while She already awaits you inside in the jaccuzi in your innermost chambers. In short, you have to dive in! You have to get wet! You have to at least pray: Dear God (if there is a God), save my soul (if I have a soul) and have mercy on me, a sinner. pax, amor et bonum, jb |
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Absolutely marvelous marshalling of resources, JB!
 I encourage anyone who's only skimmed to print out these pages at some time and read over what you've provided.I'm not really sure, quite frankly, what I was driving at as I was having a hard time concentrating during parts of those exchanges last night. You've surely touched on my concerns in the posts above. Mostly, I was trying to understand what "I can't go there" means . . . what's the "there" and "why can't one go?" There certainly does seem to be an explicit rejection of explicit faith, even after the dialogical engagement with wise souls like you has demonstrated that Christianity is capable of affirming all that reason can affirm, and yet invites "more." I was wondering why, given such agreements, the possibility of the resurrection and the enormous implications it holds for understanding meaning and truth, could be so facilely dismissed by some. I know there are as many reasons as there are individuals, and that such a rejection does not imply a rejection of implicit faith. I was trying to understand some of the more common reasons, and, I suppose, questioning if any of them could be addressed somehow. Your posts have touched on all this. It was good to see Mortimer Adler's work mentioned along the way. I have great respect for him and his wife; their writings were a real help to me during a time in my life when I was having deep intellectual struggles. And wow! Yes, almost 30 years of friendship! Here's to 30 more (at least!). |
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I suspect such souls are legion, w.c., based on the premise that, even if they didn't suffer deformative influences, institutionally, be it in church or family or elsewhere, at the same time (and I'm sure this happens) neither did they experience much good formation beyond the most rudimentary catechesis or moral upbringing. Not thus nurtured but still seeking growth, they might have found community in the literature, whether in the hagiographical and biographical, in fiction or nonfiction, poetry or prose, or other arts and humanities, sacred or secular --- they thus connected and perhaps now live a rather eremitic existence, grown use to the solitude and fond of the silence, praying earnestly and passionately for humankind, living a prophetic witness to the unitive life in a desert of one's choosing. The Church recognizes, as a legitimate vocation, a hermit's abandonment of the world, austerity of life, and external solitude. See the Guidebook to the Eremitic Life and also Raven's Bread , run by my old friend, Paul Fredette.
See, also, if you will: The Postmodern Desert: Solitude and Community in Cyberspace by Elisha Emery Obl.OSB Cam Phil, perhaps you wish to move these last two posts to the new thread you started? Or somehow have them coexist in both threads. At any rate, I have a feeling that it will be a very rich thread. pax, jb |
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Respectfully said, JB.
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Yes indeed! And as you noted, JB, I did start a thread to reflect on how one connects to the Church. This can include a variety of non-conventional ways which are very legitimate and much to be preferred, imo, over a wholesale rejection of Christianity because belonging to a Church congregation doesn't seem to work for an individual. |
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ShalomPlace.com Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Christian Morality and Theology Faith and Doubt Today, Redux - the phenomenon of modern disbelief
Shalom Place Community Shalom Place Discussion Groups General Discussion Forums Christian Morality and Theology Faith and Doubt Today, Redux - the phenomenon of modern disbelief