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quote:
Originally posted by Phil:
It's also a matter of conscience, which is different from preferences, temperament and false self attitudes.


A quick search returned the following from the Compendium of Catechism of the Catholic Church <http://bit.ly/10wHxJ>.

372. What is the moral conscience?

Moral conscience, present in the heart of the person, is a
judgment of reason which at the appropriate moment enjoins
him to do good and to avoid evil. Thanks to moral conscience,
the human person perceives the moral quality of an act to be
done or which has already been done, permitting him to assume
responsibility for the act. When attentive to moral conscience,
the prudent person can hear the voice of God who speaks to
him or her.

I believe I see your point. I would have a very difficult time reconciling this with Bourgeault's False Self in Action model of human morality, if I may call it that.

But you said, "it's also a matter of conscience." Have you reconciled these two radically different approaches to morality?

Thank you.

Kind regards.
 
Posts: 13 | Location: Pottstown, PA | Registered: 19 December 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of Phil
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Kevin, I think the false self model presented by Fr. Keating and elaborated on by CB is a good way to understand our human brokenness and innate tendencies to attach to the agendae of the lower energy centers. It's primarily a psychological model, however, which is both its strength and its limitation. There are deeper spiritual levels of awareness in play at all times, and conscience has more to do with the moral dimension of spiritual intuition than with our cultural conditioning. Of course, the latter can and does influence conscience, but it doesn't totally determine its operations.

A couple of pertinent quotes:
quote:
On his part, man perceives and acknowledges the imperatives of the divine law through the mediation of conscience. In all his activity a man is bound to follow his conscience in order that he may come to God, the end and purpose of life. It follows that he is not to be forced to act in manner contrary to his conscience. Nor, on the other hand, is he to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience, especially in matters religious. . . . In the formation of their consciences, the Christian faithful ought carefully to attend to the sacred and certain doctrine of the Church.(35) For the Church is, by the will of Christ, the teacher of the truth. It is her duty to give utterance to, and authoritatively to teach, that truth which is Christ Himself, and also to declare and confirm by her authority those principles of the moral order which have their origins in human nature itself.

- from Vatican ii document on religious freedom.

Although conscience is primarily ordered to discern moral action, the intuition through which it operates is also sensitive to other faith-related issues. That's more what I was referring to in the quote you posted above. So when I read something on spirituality and theology, I'm not only attentive to what the author is saying, but to how it affects my conscience and sense of the faith. I notice what resonates, strengthens, challenges, and disturbs. The latter deserves special attention, and I try to dig deeper to discern what disturbs me, and why. That's some of what I've shared about CB's book in this discussion. It doesn't mean I'm right, of course; what disturbs me might be a summons to grow. It also might indicate a teaching that is incongruent with Church teaching, however, and that's a serious matter, imo.
 
Posts: 3542 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Phil:
I notice what resonates, strengthens, challenges, and disturbs. The latter deserves special attention, and I try to dig deeper to discern what disturbs me, and why. That's some of what I've shared about CB's book in this discussion. It doesn't mean I'm right, of course; what disturbs me might be a summons to grow. It also might indicate a teaching that is incongruent with Church teaching, however, and that's a serious matter, imo.


I hear you. And I respect your stand on faith, religion and the Church. Our respect for and approach to these things is clearly different. But I hope we can agree to disagree and will remain willing to engage one another again sometime soon.

Thank you Phil, for your thoughtful responses, challenging questions and, most of all, your respectful and congenial approach to our conversation. I learned more than a few things.

Thank you.
 
Posts: 13 | Location: Pottstown, PA | Registered: 19 December 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Looks like you're signing off, Kevin. I've enjoyed the exchanges as well, and hope you'll share with us sometime in the future what parts of this book spoke to you.

Peace, Phil
 
Posts: 3542 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello Phil, No not signing off. Just giving this thread a rest.

I couldn't help google your name. Have you ever been to the Malvern Retreat House <www.malvernretreat.com>? I've taken many a retreat there. I'm sure you'd be a welcome member of their retreat leader staff.

Another thing we have in common is a fondness for May, Nouwen, St. John of the Cross and 12-Step spirituality. I worked the program - and it worked me - for 6 years in the late 80s.
 
Posts: 13 | Location: Pottstown, PA | Registered: 19 December 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sounds like we have a lot of common interests, Kevin.

I've never been to Malvern Retreat House, but it looks like a really great ministry. I'd welcome an opportunity to visit there sometime.
 
Posts: 3542 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Phil, Let me know when you're in the area. I would love to join you on a visit to Malvern <http://g.co/maps/srg4b>.
 
Posts: 13 | Location: Pottstown, PA | Registered: 19 December 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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