i just got thru watching the film ( DVD) 'One Voice'.. has anyone seen it yet? what a wonderful film! it is a film about mysticism , mystics speaking from all the different world religions about love the interconnectedness of all people.. a truly inspirng film! greatly beautiful! a must see!

looking at and 'feeling' the beautiful radiant light in each who shared was.... lovely. i am deeply moved and humbled to have watched such a beautiful film!

love christine

Here is the website to the movie I think you're referring to Christine.

http://www.withonevoicedocumentary.org/index.htm

I've not seen it. The preview suggests there's a lot of poetry but it's rather low on logic and reason.

I took a few retreats/intensives with one of the gurus in this documentary, Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev. I will write up my experience of being initiated by him and concerns about his teachings, his denial of Christ, and the ethics of his "manipulating the energies of creation" as he put it.

Hi Christine,

I'm sure there's beauty and lots of truth in it, just been around the block with folks who blur important distinctions about my Faith, my Lord.

I've looked into the maker of this documentary. Matthew Flickstein seems like a genuine guy, had an enlightenment experience and got into Vipassana meditation. He founded Forest Way in VA, based on Theravada Buddhism.

http://www.forestway.org/index.htm

One of their teachers was mentored by Barbara Brodsky, who is from Ann Arbor's Deep Spring Center. Here's what Deep Spring Ceneter says about where from Barbara gets her spiritual guidance:
------------------------------------------
Part of the teaching we offer within “spiritual inquiry” comes from a discarnate energy which calls itself Aaron, channeled by Barbara. In many previous lifetimes, Aaron has been a practitioner of many religions, including lifetimes spent as a Buddhist monk and scholar. In his final lifetime he was a Vipassana meditation master in the Theravadin tradition. His present teaching draws from this background, but he also reminds us that, like all of us, he has lived in many bodies, had many shades of skin, and followed many spiritual paths. Aaron is a being of great love, compassion, wisdom and gentle humor. His work is toward the alleviation of suffering. Those who have worked with him find him to be a very wise, compassionate and skillful teacher.
-------------------

I like this part:

-----------------------
We realize the presence of a discarnate teacher may raise questions for some of you. We ask you only to approach Aaron’s teaching with an open mind and see if it speaks to your heart.
--------------------------

I think I'll pass...my experience with discarnate beings has been pretty dark!

Hi Christine,

You are such a lovely person!

I do appreciate your heart of wanting harmony and union with God for all of mankind. I think most everyone wants that, including, it appears, the movie-makers of this film. However, what Christ has to offer really is distinct from other paths.

It seems God has protected you from the darker side of k. activity/ teachings. Thank you, Lord Jesus! He's given you that pure heart and gift of knowledge and faith about focusing on your relationship with Jesus and love of neighbor.

And, contrary to the Oneness philosphy, it's not unloving to disagree with other's paths or understanding. It may be politically incorrect, but not unloving if your heart is in the right place while you seek for right knowledge and discernment.

From that preview of the film one can see Father Keating say that unless we enter this dimension of reality in which we realize our Oneness, we are pouring negative energy into the universe. Huh? If this is a PC enlightenment way of saying "loving your neighbor," OK, but if he means one needs to live in this enlightenment concsiousness, I just don't agree, but I'll have to look at that again more carefully. You don't need to reach this level of Oneness to maintain a loving heart toward mankind. Furthermore, enlightened people who discourage clear thinking and the discernment of spirits can be doing more damage to souls than good.

Thanks for saying more about yourself; it's a pleasure to get to know you.

The film-makers make the following points in the preview:

“All religions point to the same openness, total acceptance…

what if humankind could put aside their differences to begin search for enlightenment and peace…

the reason we practice a spiritual path is we are trying to get in touch with a state that is beyond the ordinary world…”

Clearly, they are proposing that enlightenment *is* the superior path, paradoxically negating their own claim to be open and accepting of all religions….

Then follows Fr Keating’s remark:

“We have a certain obligation as a human being to awaken to this level because without it we simply pour negative energy into the human atmosphere because that’s all we’re capable of if we consider ourselves separate from God.”

By “this level” Father Keating is obviously talking about enlightenment, not merely the teaching of Christ to “love God and your neighbor.”

That Fr. Keating apparently consented to his comments being used this way is disturbing to me.

Christine and Shasha--Reading your exchanges this evening just made my day (and I was having a good day already).

Hi Christine,

I can relate to going into quiet mode and not wanting to think, write, talk, or relate. So feel free to come and go as you please.

You ask a lot of good questions, most of which have been discussed here over several years. For starters, I can reply to your first question in a general way. Eastern mysticism does consider enlightenment to be the culmination of the spiritual journey. They consider it to be the pinnacle, the end of the road, absolute union with God. They believe that until you get to enlightenment, you are bound to keep reincarnating in a kind of trap.

As far as the "great saints," do you mean the Christian Saints? Were they considered to be enlightened? Phil knows more about this, but as I read their writings, the little I've done, I'd say that many do describe experiences that suggest they are immersed in certain levels of the Eastern definition of enlightenment, which is a state of consciousness marked by having the direct experience of being totally at one with creation, the sense of I AM THAT, wherein subject and object are merged. A few of them have said they see and experience God in everything around them. However, I've not ever read anything in the Christian mystics that sounds like absolute enlightenment.

The Christian mystics, like St. John of the Cross describe union with God as the "spiritual marriage" or Beatific Vision, made possible through Grace alone to a surrender Christ-follower. The spiritual marriage of the Christian is very different experience from Eastern enlightenment.

One recent discussion on the difference is that enlightenment is a change in perception/consciousness, which can be brought about by certain methods of concentration/ meditation, drugs, brain changes, and most often by a complete kundalini ascension.

OTOH, the Christian spiritual marriage is the result of God's Grace producing an alteration in one's soul as it is touched by God Himself, towards not enlightenment but a New Creation. IMO, the spiritual marriage is the promise Jesus made in John 14 and 17.

The two "paths" are often confounded as the same thing, like in the movie One and the documentary you've brought to our attention here, With One Voice. This confounding is a serious problem. The authors mean well but they are not knowledgeable about Christ Jesus

Similarily, k. is taught by many as being the same as the Holy Spirit, as you can hear from the preview of With One Voice there is a spiritual leader saying sthg like, "There is only one power, one energy, blah, blah..."

Christine, you have first-hand experience of the differences, which should serve to protect you from some level of deception. K. is a *created* energy, like our hormones and nervous system. Like every created thing, k. is broken, damaged by the Fall.

The Holy Spirit is God, uncreated, the Third Person of Triune God. Big difference.

There are a number of threads discussing these topics, as you've noticed. For instance, see Eckart Tolle, B. Roberts, the Discreet Charm of Nonduality, and many others. You can spend a lot of time here getting educated...

Hope this helps...

Feel free to jump in anybody if I need correcting of what I've shared here.

Very clear summary, Shasha, of what I've understood from reading here and elsewhere, and from my own experience. I've known God's hand on my soul and there's a distinct "color" and feel to that which has remained recognizable over almost 2/3's of my life, and I experience a deep and rich inner silence much of the time, as well as a few possibly k.-type things which I chose to not pursue further because I found them distracting, though fascinating--my streak of narcissism is a bit too susceptible to stirring up.

Again, I thought that was a very clear and worthwhile summary that organizes thinking about some important distinctions without dismissing the good of k and different states of consciousness.

Trying to be clear myself, I want to say that I certainly don't think k itself necessarily tempts anyone into narcissism. I'm just talking about my own weaknesses towards that here.

On a different note: Flickstein, Brodsky, Cohen, Levine---I've wondered for a while why I see so many Jewish names involved in this stuff. A reaction to feeling abandoned by God during the Holocaust, leading Jews to leave the practice of Judaism? Sorry, just wondering aloud...And "Aaron"???, famous for leading people into idolatry...I can't help but wonder what's up with this apparent pattern.

Ariel,

It's a paradox I've seen in myself too: that narcissism, the neurotic striving to be special, really does interfere with our true beauty in Christ...

It's been nice to get you to know better these days.

Hi all. I've finally had a chance to review the video preview and click around the site a bit. The message certainly seems to be a positive one, only I'd agree with Shasha that they seem to blur the distinction between the consciousness of the human spirit and that of the divine, at times. Also, at some point, one has to ask why, if all these different pathways attest to the same kind of experience, they have, traditionally, maintained themselves as distinct from one another? Why don't they all collapse into some kind of mystical synthesis? The New Age movement attempted to do just such, but it doesn't hold together very well, the main reason being that there are different kinds of experiences of God and the deep self being attested to by the world religions and metaphysical traditions. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion, but it does leave one inquiring if, among these various pathways, there is one favored by the divine? Yes, to inquire such pushes up against the inclusive spirit of the video and, indeed, of postmodern thinking, but it is an important question nonetheless.

E.g., who knows me best and is best qualified to write a biography of me? My siblings? My children? Coworkers? Friends? My wife?
- They've all experienced the common and open aspects of my life, some moreso than others. In my case, at least, only my wife would know me most fully and so would be best qualified to write my biography.

I am one man known similarly and differently by a number of people. That's true of everyone. Why should this not apply to God as well? What is this tendency to level the playing field to make it seem as though every religion is saying the same thing, only using different language? Why not respect both the testimony AND differences among them? Yes, Christianity does make claims that the others do not, but the appropriate response to this is to consider those claims and to see where one comes out with regard to them.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
...in my opinion, but it does leave one inquiring if, among these various pathways, there is one favored by the divine? ... What is this tendency to level the playing field to make it seem as though every religion is saying the same thing, only using different language? ....

About being favored by the divine, well, that taps into a huge brokenness in us creatures! We all have to contend with primitive rivaly/ jealousy impulses and competitiveness. Jesus had to deal with this in His disciples too as he spoke about their competitiveness both directly and in so many of his parables.

I know I used to hate the teaching that "Jesus is the only Son of God" in the context of my male-dominated, male-favored family/ enthnicity. In my family, boys were favored and esteemed while girls were devalued. It wasn't until I got healing of this emotional abuse that I could even begin to hear that teaching without cringing and revolution. This fact largely determined my attraction to the New Age semantic leveling of all religions. Owing to my unfortunate early experiences, I couldn't stand the thought of God favoring one religion over another.

Shasha, I understand what you're saying. I had a spiritual directee sometime back who couldn't even acknowledge the fact of Jesus' historical existence because: a.) he was a male, and b.) if what Christianity says about him is true, then Christianity has the most privileged revelation of God. Needless to say, these kinds of objections bias one's search for truth.

I think one response is that Jesus' "male-ness" is not really an essential aspect of the revelation of God and the reconciliation with humanity that came through him. To become human, God had only two gender options, and the female one wouldn't have been accepted very well in those cultures. So God became human as a male, and males are no more nor less human than females. Maybe Plato would argue this point, but in Christ Jesus there is "no male or female, no slave or free, no Greek or Jew. (Gal. 8:28)

The "privileged revelation" point is a more difficult one to uphold in this emerging postmodern culture, which tends to eschew all things hierarchical. The theologian, Hans Kung, made a good contribution to addressing this point in a book he wrote on world religions years ago, wherein he noted that the founders of other religions and their saints and ours as well present us with significant revelations of God. So does the creation itself. But in Jesus Christ we encounter the decisive revelation of God. Only he has risen from the dead and only he has the authority to bless us with the Holy Spirit. This is unique among the world religions.