Letting go of Reason and moving into Love, according to Hawkins, are frightening to the ego, which clings to one of it's last defenses, which is the rational
intellectual level. This is Jedi training, and only
one out of twenty five reach this level. Only 0.4% of us reach the level of unconditional love. I have to put this in the lounge to minimize the ego's resistance to the subject. I think it's time for this and pray that I am right. Breathe!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_R._Hawkins

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi.../0971500746?v=glance

Michael, I'm still not understanding how or why love must go beyond reason. Unless Hawkins means something drastically different from Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, and Catholic philosophy by "reason," it's just incomprehensible to understand how the will could be directed to love without rational direction.

Phil,

The levels build upon one another, so yes, one would
travel through the rational intellectual level on the way toward the level of love, where love directs
the intellect, rather than intellect directing love.

Aristotle, Aquinas, and much of Catholic philosophy are at the level of love in Hawkins' worldview, so it's interesting that you would mention them. We can spend years looking at levels
above us, like when waiting for an advancement or promotion.We know something about the boss's job.

It is a difficult barrier to cross over however, with only one out of twenty-five reaching it, and only one out of two-hundred fifty reaching the level of unconditional love. We call these individuals, saints, gurus, yogis and Bodhisattvas.

As the fireman exceeds his job decription by risking live and limb to save a cat in a burning building, these individuals may devote themselves to heroic acts of service and devotion. Mother Teresa just figured she was loving God by caring for the dying in Calcutta. To her, it was not heroic. It was the obvious thing to do. It was loving God Himself. She would not call herself a saint. Saints do not think this way. They just love. Love directs the intellect.

Love directs the intellect.

Hopefully . . .

Maybe he means something along the lines of Lonergan's "being in love," which provides a sound foundation for mystical theology. E.g.,

quote:

It is one thing to be in love and another to discover that what has happened to you is that you have fallen in love. Being oneself is prior to knowing oneself. St Ignatius said that love shows itself more in deeds than in words; but being in love is neither deeds nor words; it is the prior conscious reality that words and, more securely, deeds reveal.

So one's awareness, intellect and will are infused by love, but are nontheless required to continue in consent, openness and discernment.

Bottom line: "being in love" explains the life of one like Mother Theresa, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee good theology from her.

I have a question on the subject of levels of consciousness. Buddhists speak of the nine consciousnesses, or nine levels of consciousness, the 9th being Spirit or pure consciousness which is cosmic and eternal, without beginning or end. I have read that this consciousness is comparable to what Christians refer to as Christ Consciousness. However, I also read in one of Ken Wilber�s books that Catholicism views the human person as a trichotomy of mind, body, and soul, but not mind, body, and Spirit in the sense that the Christ within us could be considered a level of consciousness which is pure and eternal Spirit. Can anybody enlighten me on this subject?

Welcome Roger, you put an important question. It is true that we human beings occupy different levels of consciousness. Perhaps Ken Wilber's evolution of consciousness is correct. But I have difficulty to see Christ as level of consciousness. Many equate Wilber's causal consciousness with Christ consciousness. For this people this level is equivalent to the state of Enlightenment. The level of Christ consciousness as it used by Wilberian tends to limit the scope of Christ. I prefer to use the human consciousness of Christ rather than Christ consciousness because it is we who have different consciousness not Christ. Christ is Alpha and Omega and he encompasses everything. In my mind he has no particular consciousness. Since Christ occupy all levels of human consciousness it is better to say Christ-centeredness rather than Christ-consciousness. A person doesn't need to attain higher level of Consciousness to identify with Christ. The main characteristic of Christ is love and he can easily adjust himself to every level in order to enter into human consciousness. We need only to tune in his realm. Then we grow in him and he grows in us by means of grace not by our effort. This is just my spontaneous reflection. Like you, Roger, I look forward to learn from others.

Good response, Grace. To which I would add that there really isn't an official Catholic teaching on levels of consciousness except that one must affirm that human consciousness is not the same as the divine's nor of the lower animals.

Understanding what the Buddhists are describing and how we might relate this to human nature and the divine is an ongoing topic of investigation in interreligious dialogue. Some of Jim Arraj's fine reflections on Christian and Buddhist experience might be helpful, here.
- http://www.innerexplorations.com/ewtext/east-wes.htm

Many thanks both Grace and Phil. I too have a difficulty perceiving Christ as a 'level' of consciousness and what you wrote Grace really resonated with me and made good sense. I am not all that into the Buddhist/Christian dialogue since I am not involved in any form of eastern meditation techniques or eastern spirituality. What intrigues me about Paul's teaching re the mystery which he refers to as 'Christ in you' and the notion that the body is the temple of the Spirit is that spirit is consciousness. That's what spirit is. Hence, the question is, Is it accurate to say that there is a domain, or sphere, of consciousness within us which is divine, rather than human? Maybe I am just coming at the same question from another direction and you have both already answered it.However, it seems to me that this question inevitably follows from Paul's teachings re the mystery of Christ and the presence within us of the Holy Spirit. And, quite frankly, it intrigues me. Thanks so much for your patience.

Shift of paradigm.

"Level 500 indicates that the subjective condition called Love has now become not only significant but dominant, not just as a feeling or emotion, but as the guiding princple. While the energy of Love may be focused as a consequence of interest or motive,
it represents a breaking away from restriction and limitation of self-interest. Love serves, whereas ego seeks to be served in it's pursuit of gain. To Love, this long term satisfaction and pleasure of givingness replace the evanescent, short term ego satisfaction of gain.

The energy of love has a unique, timeless quality
that gratifies potentialities that are subtle and difficult to logically describe. As Love becomes progressively spiritualized, it emerges as an alignment with Divinity, which is the ultimate source and province of Love. It thereby becomes viewed as holy, sacred and the substance of devotion, religious faith, and mystical awareness." - Trancending the Levels of Consciousness, page 240

Although Zen and Taoism would not attempt to define it, this seems to be the goal of all religion. I want it more than oxygen, and pant after it as King David did. It's a great boon to mankind!

"Love is all you need." -Beatles

Hence, the question is, Is it accurate to say that there is a domain, or sphere, of consciousness within us which is divine, rather than human?

I think it is accurate to say that there is a sphere of divine consciousness within us. Above all we are created in the image of God. John of the Cross has a good wisdom in this area. According to him the stricture of humanbeing is divided in three different parts, namely the outer, the inner and the center. He called the outer part "el sentido" or the senses. This part is consisted of physical body, emotion, suffering or passion (joy, hope, sorrow and fear). Everything on this structure is depended upon the knowledge stemmed from the senses.

The second structure is the inner. This structure is called spirit. This is the place where love and will seats. Mind belongs to this structure as long as it is independent of the senses. The knowledge gained by this mind called spiritual wisdom, intuitive or higher knowledge.

The third structure is called the center of the soul. This is the place where human beings image of God seats. Here is the place where the Trinity lives no matter we live in sin or not.

Lonergan's approach to spirituality and consciousness takes a slightly different approach from that described by Grace above.
- see http://shalomplace.com/images/...enciesOfBecoming.jpg

The "image of God" that we are is our spiritual nature, which is distinguished from our psychological nature in that we can be freely and intelligently conscious of our consciousness. The "apex" or "center of the soul" (not shown in this depection) is not God, but is the interface between the spiiritual soul and God -- the place where existence is received from God. Hence, the interiority of the soul is natural human energies and potentialities, with the divine life on the "other side" of the apex, as it were. Through baptism and faith (including implicit faith, here), the divine comes to dwell within and "upgrades" our natural human energies in such a manner that we become images of Christ, whose human interiority was thoroughly divinized throughout his life.

I like Lonergan's approach very much and have been increasingly using it in classes I hold on this topic. The God and Creation thread on this board also reflects on the mystery of our human nature and its relation to the divine.

I agree with your post above, Phil. What I'm saying is we are created in the image of God but because of Original sin we are not conscious of it. Therfore it is necessary to have baptism and faith. Through the interface of Christ we become conscious of our original nature. This means through the interface of Christ there is a possibilty that our soul can be united with God while we are on Earth.

"The transition is one of changing focus of importance from the descriptive qualities of the observed to the subtle qualities of the observer. This subjectivity recontextualizes the observed in terms of pleasure, satisfaction, significance, and prioritized worth. The shift profoundly influences
decision and choice, as well as long term goals that influence relationships, career choices, and innumerable decisions in life." -page 240

Begins to pick up where Lonergan leaves off...

Thanks very much Phil and Grace. I was interested in learning more about what the Catholic church teaches about the divine within the human because my own personal spirituality revolves around what I tend to think of in terms of living my life in Christ, a way of life which I have found to be profoundly transforming and liberating. When I think about the promise of the gospel in this context, from the perspective of transformation and freedom, that is, I think of the first miracle in the gospel of John in which Jesus transformed water into wine, a miracle which took place at a wedding feast nonetheless. This miracle and the setting in which it took place reflects my own experience of living my life in Christ, a miracle in which the human nature in me was transformed by the divine nature in me, like ordinary water that was transformed into an exquisite wine. The old self, who I wasn�t very fond of, died away and my true Self, which is inherently in Christ, rose to a new life, a life which is characterized by a new awareness of, and an unhindered responsiveness to, the divine Presence within me. The newness of this life, which is what is so exquisite about the wine compared to the water, is about a day to day mental/sensory experience which is profoundly transformed because it is informed, so to speak, from within, rather than from without. It is Christ-centered, rather than self-centered. For my vote, then, the life in Christ is what the state of grace is all about. Moreover, I really think that this state of graceis the Christian church's best kept secret

Roger, it sounds like you've come to a living, experiential awareness of grace. I like the way you put things, and agree that the "in-Christ" perspective is the most significant shift in one's perspective. That is surely a work of grace . . . nothing we can create with our minds or acts of will. To be in touch with this experientially rather than just conceptually is what I believe it means to have discovered the "pearl of great price."

Your blessed, Roger, as only by means of the Holy Spirit can the Pearl of Great Price come to us.

Hawkins is aware of this level:

"From consciousness level 500 and up, the attraction
of beauty, peace, and inner quietude, become increasingly important. The spiritual principles of the great teachers become incorporated into one's lifestyle and eventually become dominant.
Conflicts arise, not about whether to be forgiving, loving or compassionate, but about how they can best be instituted and fulfilled. Thus, the linear specificity and content of actions become dominated by the power of the overall field of context. Eventually the Divinity of life itself becomes the self revealing, and all of life becomes valued."

quote:

The spiritual principles of the great teachers become incorporated into one's lifestyle and eventually become dominant.

I like the way Hawkins worded this, Michael. I love words! Maybe because Christ is the Word! And the notion of incorporating His wisdom and His teachings into one�s day to day living experience, especially into one�s personal relationships, for my vote, is the ultimate end of a truly Christian discipleship. The verb incorporate comes from the Latin word incorporare, which means to make into a body which, in turn, sounds very much like what Paul taught the first Christians when he said that we are the body of Christ.

There is no question in my mind that solitude and quiet time, the goal of which is self-transcendence and oneness with the divine within us, are vital and essential to the inner spiritual life. However, oneness and union is just as much a point of embarkation as it is a goal, the ultimate goal being about incarnational living.

I don�t mean by this that any of us will ever become God in the sense that we think of Jesus as the incarnation of God. Nor do I mean that the human in us will ever become divine. Rather, when the Self-in-Christ becomes one�s primary context what we have arrived at brings us back to the beginning, to our roots and our original nature, to what we were when we came into being, to what we always have been and always will be in our innermost being. Hence, the task that we take upon ourselves in our solitude and quiet time has a lot to do with self-surrender and being willing to let go of our egoic delusions and compulsions so that the Holy Spirit in us can clean house, or cleanse the temple, so to speak. The work of the Spirit, from this perspective, then, is to free us up to be in the world, to incarnate in the world around us, what we most truly are within ourselves � a Self-in-Christ.

Roger, are you familiar with the traditional Christian teaching on theosis. Do a google search on this term and you'll find a number of sites that describe it. It sounds like you're very much attuned to this.

Thanks Phil. Actually, I had never heard the term before, but it certainly speaks volumes to me. I should tell you that for many years I practiced a form of prayer and meditation which I have only recently realized is called Lectio Divina. I would rise in the wee hours of the morning to pray, read the scriptures, and meditate on what I had read, being open to whatever insights the Spirit would convey to me. As odd as this may seem, my bible was the only book I owned until just recently, within the last year or so. I used to buy and read books on Christian theology and the bible, as well as on Buddhism and Hinduism, but the language and the terms that were being bantered about in those books were more confusing to me than anything else. The problem, no doubt, was that I never finished high school and, truth be told, I work in a gas station. So, as you can imagine, heavy reading isn't exactly up my alley. One God, one book, one soul in need. That was the plan.

Roger,
John Wesley said, "I am a man of one Book," so you're in good company.
Revkah

quote:

Originally posted by Roger:
[qb] The problem, no doubt, was that I never finished high school and, truth be told, I work in a gas station. So, as you can imagine, heavy reading isn't exactly up my alley. [/qb]

Humm. That is a well-crafted sentence.

Roger, echoing the affirmation from revkah and Ryan. It seems the Spirit led you to discover on your own this ancient practice of rising early and feeding your spirit with the Scriptures. And I can relate to your point that it is important to decide which among the different spiritual pathways and religions one will choose to travel. One God, one book, one soul in need. That was the plan. Good plan indeed!

Now what about the Christian Church? That, too, is a mode of Christ's presence, and a support for your growth. This forum is a kind of "Church" in the sense of "two or more gathered in His name," and you can see the richness that comes from the sharing. So, too, when people gather to worship, pray, study, etc. How are you with this aspect of the Christian life?

Phil,

The question you have just asked is an important one to me because I don�t belong to a church and there is a part of me which I think is moving in that direction, though a little slowly and with some serious reservations. My father, sister, and a close friend are very devout Catholics. I was brought up Catholic and was a pipe organist and played at a Catholic basilica on the east coast. However, over a period of some years that part of me, and that part of my life, fell prey to some pretty bad habits which became the ruin of me. Eventually, I not only lost everything, including my wife and children, I ended up homeless and living on the streets of Toronto. I am not going into a lot of detail here because this is a post and not the story of my life. The point, though, is that I came to a point in my life when I knew that I had to make some pretty serious changes, so I went back to the church. However, I tried everything and nothing worked. I also joined and walked away from four different churches, each a different denomination, over a period of about six years. I did everything that was suggested and expected of me. I even looked into Buddhism and Hinduism quite seriously for awhile. Then one day I opened my bible and started reading and you know the rest.

Joining Shalom Place has been a huge step for me, my first foray into dialoguing with other like minded believers about the spiritual life. I am keenly interested in hearing about other people�s experiences and, of course, sharing my own. As peculiar as this may seem to you, I have had zero contact in the last eight years with other people who have committed themselves to the path I have been on and it has only been in the last year or so that I have started buying books and exploring other people�s thinking on this subject. So, I guess you could say I am hoping that for now Shalom Place will be my Christian community on the net.

Hi Roger!
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. It is nice to hear that you returned back home to our lord. We have trustful God. Once we belong to Christ he never leave us alone although we pass through many hardships in life.

Hello Philip:

To your knowledge, has there been any interreligious dialogue between
Christianity and Native American
spirituality.

Thanks
*********
Phil
Understanding what the Buddhists are describing and how we might relate this to human nature and the divine is an ongoing topic of investigation in interreligious dialogue. Some of Jim Arraj's fine reflections on Christian and Buddhist experience might be helpful, here.
- http://www.innerexplorations.com/ewtext/east-wes.htm