Hello Friends,

I am new, this is my first posting, and I feel so grateful to have found this place. I am a single, celibate woman. For 15 years or so, I have felt called to a deeper intimacy with God through silence, solitude, and centering prayer. There is so much I would like to talk about with those of you who share this journey --so much I feel I can learn from you.

In this first post, however, I am raising an issue that is a primary and on-going struggle in my life -- how to support myself financially in a simple lifestyle, consistent with the semi-eremetic life I feel led to live at this time. I would like to hear how others who are self-supporting (without assistance from any other sources) support themselves financially. What occupations, jobs do you do? Is it more than one? Part-time, full-time? I have not been able to find work that pays enough for me to afford even a very small, modest efficiency apartment. I live with my mother, our lifestyles are very different, and at 54, I would prefer to have my own apartment. I am college graduate with a BA in Theology. If anyone would like to contribute to this discussion I am eager to hear from you.

Blessings to all!

Welcome, listeningheart. Great topic, and especially relevant to contemplative types.

I'll be sharing more about this as we go along, but am pressed for time, at the moment. Looking forward to hearing what you and others share.

Welcome, listeningheart!

Good to have some new voices (and listening hearts).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_and_Grow_Rich

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/W._Clement_Stone

http://www.americanrhetoric.co...lacresofdiamonds.htm


Do these principles spark any ideas?

caritas, mm <*))))><

quote:

Originally posted by mysticalmichael9:
[qb] Welcome, listeningheart!

Good to have some new voices (and listening hearts).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_and_Grow_Ri

Do these principles spark any ideas?

caritas, mm <*))))>< [/qb]

Thank you for your kind welcome and for the links you suggested. I have one question -- for anyone who wishes to respond. One of the books mysticalmichael9 recommends is "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill. If anyone has an opinion about this book and Hill's philosophy I would like to hear what you have to say. I believe he offers much sound advice, especially on overcoming fears. He also puts heavy emphasis on WILL-POWER in his book, and some reviewers have said, on "Prosperity Consciousness". I'm just wondering if this book is one that would benefit me -- and most importanly, is it one that is consistent with growth in Christ, His values and teachings?

Peace to all.

. . . how to support myself financially in a simple lifestyle, consistent with the semi-eremetic life I feel led to live at this time. . .

I guess the place to start is to inquire how much money is needed to support this lifestyle? If the answer is $6,000 a year (possible in certain rural areas), that's not nearly so hard to come by as, say, $24,000 a year, which almost certainly entails at least part-time work. The simpler the better, in any case, but doing so in New York City will cost a whole lot more than in Plaucheville, La.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
[qb] . . . how to support myself financially in a simple lifestyle, consistent with the semi-eremetic life I feel led to live at this time. . .

... say, $24,000 a year, which almost certainly entails at least part-time work. The simpler the better, in any case, but doing so in New York City will cost a whole lot more than in Plaucheville, La. [/qb]

Excellent question, and I appreciate your comment "the simpler the better, in any case". That's truly what I seek. I live in a very large city. I have many times counted up and budgeted the cost of living. In this city it takes at least $23,000-24,000 to subsist in a simple, modest lifestyle -- living frugally, meeting needs, managing the necessities, but nothing beyond that.

quote:

Originally posted by listeningheart:
[qb] a primary and on-going struggle in my life -- how to support myself financially in a simple lifestyle, consistent with the semi-eremetic life I feel led to live at this time. I would like to hear how others who are self-supporting (without assistance from any other sources) support themselves financially. [/qb]

Humm, I've mulled over this question of yours for well on to ten minutes now and I'm stumped. Maybe it is too big. Could you ask a more specific question?

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan:
[qb] Could you ask a more specific question? [/qb]

Okay -- What is your occupation or job? How do you pay the bills?

quote:

Originally posted by listeningheart:
QUOTE]Okay -- What is your occupation or job? How do you pay the bills? [/QB]

Now that is a specific question I can answer!

My wife is a tenured professor working full time, I bake bread part time. She pays the bills, I bring in some extra money.

Three years ago I bought an investment property using a home equity loan. A three bed room semi-detached townhouse a block from our home in a moderately low income urban neighborhood. I bought on auction for $33,000 at 5.5% interest and rented it at a low cost ($550 m. not including utilities) to a family of four that kept the place neat -a break even proposition that paid the mortgage and expenses. Last month I sold the place for 61,500 to the low bidder (the high bidder was a realtor who offered 69,000. I thought the low bidder had more to offer the neighborhood as he was going to live there and he was a friend of the woman who had the adjoining house). With the combined equity and capitol gains of 40,000 (I had paid it down early using bakery earnings) we paid off the mortgage on your brick detached cottage that we had paid $60,000 for in '99.

We are celebrating the elimination of our last loan. We have paid our school debts and we always buy our used cars with cash. We have only one car and I commute to work on bike or bus. We are 44 and childless.

I've worked in various ministry-related jobs since 1985 and have "made a living" at it. My wife is a school social worker. We've done OK, as we both like our work well enough and it's fairly congruent with our spirituality. We have three grown children now; putting them through college and weddings for the two girls has made it difficult to save much for retirement. Maybe one day . . . but for me that wouldn't be living eremetically. Just maybe part-time work and and more free time.

------

Listeningheart, if you need 24,000 a year to make expenses, it seems you'll pretty much need a good part-time job - - hopefully something that gives you flex time. Could you move to a more rural area? That would help with the expenses, and it seems the eremetic lifestyle flourishes if one is closer to nature.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan:
[qb] [/qb]

Now that is a specific question I can answer!

My wife is a tenured professor working full time, I bake bread part time. She pays the bills, I bring in some extra money. . . . We are 44 and childless. [/QUOTE]
_________________________________________________

Sincerest thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I can tell you did so with great care and consideration, and I appreciate that. I also admire the skills and good judjment evident in the house purchase/resell which you seemed to handle like an expert. I have no experience in home purchasing, so I stand in awe!

It was very helpful to get specific details about your occupation, your wife's, etc. It's slightly different from my situation & financial needs, but still VERY helpful. I learn so much by hearing the "how I do it" stories of other's, as I try to remain open to any hint of the Spirit speaking to me through other people. Even though our life circumstances/financial needs may be different in some ways, there are similarities -- our spirituality. And your story sparks new ideas in me -- job possibilities I might consider. As I think over what you've said, an initial question comes to mind re: what your weekly work schedule looks like. Is it a regular, set shift (same days/times,Mon-Fri)? Do you ever have to work evenings or weekends?
Must close for now ... Many thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by listeningheart:
[qb] what your weekly work schedule looks like. Is it a regular, set shift (same days/times,Mon-Fri)? Do you ever have to work evenings or weekends?
[/qb]

Talking about finances is a usually taboo outside of some close relationships, so breaking out and telling can be liberating. I'm glad what I shared was helpful. I appreciate your sharing your situation too.

Currently, I'm working 9-5 Th, Fri, Sun and recently, when my boss said they may need someone to work seasonally, that is, during the farmers' market season only, I expressed interest. The trick is to work when the full timers are either overworked (in our case, the farmers' markets make for extra demand on weekends) or don't want to work (Sundays and Holidays).

One consideration that comes to mind is savings. One of my motivators is saving for something like a retreat. I'm curious, am I correct that you are currently living within your mean with your only income being from tshirts? Have you thought about taking a second job, even a very low paying job and saving all the money (minus the expenses of having the job) and then taking a retreat (perhaps in an austere, low cost situation, one where you could maybe even work in exchange for some of your room and board), a retreat from living with your mother?

Listeningheart,

There is a great little book called "Ordinary People As Monks And Mystics", by Marsha Sinetar. She tells stories about people who live a very simple lifestyle, how they survive financially, etc. An excellent read.

Katy

Another practical resource is "What Color is Your Parachute?" Not necessarily a spiritual book, but very pragmatic.

- see http://tinyurl.com/ycyvk7

edited by Phil to shrink URL size.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan:
Currently, I'm working 9-5 Th, Fri, Sun and recently, when my boss said they may need someone to work seasonally, that is, during the farmers' market season only, I expressed interest. The trick is to work when the full timers are either overworked (in our case, the farmers' markets make for extra demand on weekends) or don't want to work (Sundays and Holidays).

What tasks do you perform at the bakery?

quote:

Originally posted by listeningheart:
[qb]

What tasks do you perform at the bakery? [/qb][/QUOTE]

In my current assignment, shape bread mostly... some mixing, some baking, relate to coworkers, negotiate radio use with the people washing dishes who like rap (and who earn $8 an hour, which is not bad given that is where I started in this bakery. I now earn $10), transport 50 lb bags and measure for mixing

I found the job because I like good bread, I talked to the owner when he was selling at the farmer's market, one thing let to another. One of the lead bakers is a woman about your age, maybe older.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
[qb] I've worked in various ministry-related jobs since 1985 and have "made a living" at it...if you need 24,000 a year to make expenses, it seems you'll pretty much need a good part-time job - - hopefully something that gives you flex time. Could you move to a more rural area? That would help with the expenses, and it seems the eremetic lifestyle flourishes if one is closer to nature. [/qb]

Phil, thank you for sharing some details about how you meet your financial obligations in a way consistent with a simple, contemplative life. Your suggestion about moving to a rural area is not possible for me at this time. I have a few relationships here that are dear to me -- number one, with my Goddaughter who is only 8 -- and I feel a call to be present to her, especially during these early years. You are right that the eremetic life can flourish in a rural setting. For 8 years I was a member of a religious order whose ministry is retreats. It was lifegiving to me in many ways, but hard to separate work & home, since we lived and worked in the same place, on the retreat center grounds. I was "on call" 24/7. After a long, difficult discernment I chose to leave the Order before professing final vows. Since then I have not been able to find any work in direct ministry, even in a clerical or receptionist position at a retreat center. But there aren't many, and in this city being bilingual (spanish) is a requirement in many places now, and I'm not. I have a BA in Theology, but perhaps jobs in ministry require advanced degrees. Currently I am looking for just about any kind of part-time job I can find, in anything I'm qualified for -- definitely not limiting myself to looking only for ministry jobs. (For 2 years I worked full-time in a retail grocery store.) Your comments, experiences, suggestions are always welcome and appreciated. Blessings!

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan:
[qb] ... am I correct that you are currently living within your means with your only income being from tshirts? Have you thought about taking a second job, even a very low paying job. . .[/qb]

I am barely able to meet my financial responsibilities at present. T-shirts are not my main income -- in fact they have brought in very little so far. I have a p/t clerical job (1 day per wk) and child caregiving 3-6 hrs per wk. And yes, not only have I thought about taking another job, I have been actively looking for months.

Thanks for all you've shared, it's very helpful.

listeningheart, with a B.A. in theology and your retreat center experience, there are a number of ministry-related jobs you could do on a part-time, contractual basis:
- adult ed classes
- parish retreats
- spiritual direction
- occasional retreat at a retreat center

Why not make up a brochure of the kinds of services you're willing and able to provide, and send it out to the places that might hire you?

I live in semi-hermitage already by living way below my means. I dont make alot at $600 or so a week but my rent is $285 and my banged up car is payed for. I have no credit cards or loans. I dont have a tv either. I want to get rid of the internet but I love all the Catholic stuff here. But I dont have a phone.

I want the hermitage thing too but in the woods so I will need much less money than you and I am saving hard for it.

I have $108 from a military disability check coming every month. So all I really need to do is buy something free and clear from payments and where I can manage the taxes. I am planning on cashing out my 401k in two years to buy a secluded cabin in northern Michigan.

I already eat less that $50 a month and could live on less that $20 easily. Personal hygiene is also pretty cheap if I stop shaving. I am glad you started this thread because I never did a financial plan on what exactly I would need in hermitage. I guess I will have to get to it.

Welcome back, Darin. Good to hear from you again.

Cutting expenses as you have done seems the first place to look for ways to live more simply.

Tell us a little more about your diet. $50 a month isn't much to live on. Do you have a garden or other resources? I make my own wine, bread, and have a big garden. It helps a lot, but I don't know that I could get by on $50 a month.

quote:

Originally posted by Darin:
[qb] I am planning on cashing out my 401k in two years to buy a secluded cabin in northern Michigan. [/qb]

Thanks for sharing Darin. I could see myself doing something like that if I were single. But I would go south to warmer weather. Have you considered the south? What is the lure of the north, for you, as compared with other options?

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
[qb] Welcome back, Darin. Good to hear from you again.

Cutting expenses as you have done seems the first place to look for ways to live more simply.

Tell us a little more about your diet. $50 a month isn't much to live on. Do you have a garden or other resources? I make my own wine, bread, and have a big garden. It helps a lot, but I don't know that I could get by on $50 a month. [/qb]

Bulk beans of every type and canned meats on occasion with a can of tuna on Fridays. I have a very bland diet that I use as a mortification. My big price item is cheese. My diet is balanced in vitamins and minerals even though it might not seem so and the cheese isn't needed vitamin or calcium wise. I just like cheese.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan:
[qb]

quote:

Originally posted by Darin:
[qb] I am planning on cashing out my 401k in two years to buy a secluded cabin in northern Michigan. [/qb]

Thanks for sharing Darin. I could see myself doing something like that if I were single. But I would go south to warmer weather. Have you considered the south? What is the lure of the north, for you, as compared with other options? [/qb]

I like Northern Michigan and I like to hunt. Its where I grew up so there is no real reason aside from that.

quote:

Originally posted by Darin:
[qb] I dont make alot at $600 or so a week ... I have $108 from a military disability check coming every month ... [/qb]

Welcome to the discussion, Darin, so glad you joined in. You say you don't make a lot, but I would be very grateful to make what you do, and I'm looking for ways to increase my income. At this point I cannot meet my minimal expenses. Maybe I can learn from you and your experience. May I ask what your occupation is? Many thanks.