The Kundalini Process: A Christian Understanding
by Philip St. Romain
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Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality
- by Philip St. Romain
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I think the point I've heard Bliss making on this thread and others is that demons seem especially intent on derailing people who are making spiritual progress, and that K process can be a force in the service of such progress. I can surely go along with that while affirming the dangers of seeking shaktipat from gurus who call on Hindu deities for assistance. There is a possible danger, though it's difficult to know for sure without looking into the consequences of their work. Where we see the fruits of the Holy Spirit, we can be sure that the Holy Spirit has been at work.

Tuck, that's quite a bit of experience you've had through the years -- certainly gives you a perspective on things.
 
Posts: 3516 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by BlissInTheHeart:
Shasha,

quote:
I'm really trying to understand and benefit from your experience.


Really ?

Unfortunately, reading all you old postigs here on this forum, i have rather the impression that you play here the role of a strict attorney against "false gods", and i feel myself here pushed into the unguilty corner of the "attorney diaboly" where i definately do not want to be. I simply want help, thats all !
...


So, maybe a few weeks later, i will answer to your posting here.

May the Christ bless you



Yes, really, "I'm really trying to understand and benefit from you experience."

Bliss, I've been very much at-peace with what you've shared with us at SP. I wouldn't be asking you for your reflections if I didn't think you had something valuable to offer.

I began a thread on false gods at SP because I think there's a real danger in people falling prey to them.

And there's the First Commandment from God that we guard against worshipping false gods. False gods and goddesses not benign myths. And when I hear people throw around the names of Hindu gods/goddesses in conjunction with their spiritual path and kundalini ascension, it creeps me out.

I feel protective of God's covenant with His Church. And maybe I'm out of line in my reactions but I'd rather not let satan, as the angel of light, lead Christians astray while I'm standing around!

Take your time in getting back to this, if you ever want to. I'm OK either way.
 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 05 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Phil:
I think the point I've heard Bliss making on this thread and others is that demons seem especially intent on derailing people who are making spiritual progress, and that K process can be a force in the service of such progress. I can surely go along with that while affirming the dangers of seeking shaktipat from gurus who call on Hindu deities for assistance. There is a possible danger, though it's difficult to know for sure without looking into the consequences of their work. Where we see the fruits of the Holy Spirit, we can be sure that the Holy Spirit has been at work.
...
Phil, I think there's more going on than that, isn't there? Is it by virtue of *making spiritual progress* that incites demons or is it because through kundalini energy, one is just generally more open to the demonic? That's what I thought Bliss was getting at in his responses above, but I dunno.
 
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Thank you Phil, it has been a long rugged journey, some of which you have shared with me on this message board. It is hard being in two worlds, at the same time, that are in conflict with each other. A Kriya Yoga guru once posted that I was like the demon that was loved by Brahman because of this demon's persistence. What is funny is that Shiva and I are very close good friends and he is not actually a god. He is a very advanced yogi that has been around for several thousand or more years and still lives on this planet in physical form. Another thing that is funny is that he has taught me all the drawbacks to India's approach to the union with God goal and he has taught me why Jesus is the "key" to union with God. The only "key". Shiva wants Jesus brought to India because of his love for the Indian people. The problem with that is the "mightiness of tradition" and in the middle of that mightiness of tradition is Satan at play Smiler ! The whole thing is a mess and it is going to take Divine intervention to get things straightened out. Along with that is the mess that this world of things is also in. I am looking forward to the day that Satan truly knows that his days are numbered and really gets upset Smiler ! In the meantime all we can do is weather the storm and try to keep our heads down, which by the way Phil, really thwarts my creativity. But then Phil you know me Smiler and I suspect that you are not surprised about this.

Anyway thank you Phil, you are loved!
tuck
 
Posts: 324 | Location: USA | Registered: 04 April 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Phil, I think there's more going on than that, isn't there? Is it by virtue of *making spiritual progress* that incites demons or is it because through kundalini energy, one is just generally more open to the demonic? That's what I thought Bliss was getting at in his responses above, but I dunno.


Shasha, I really don't know the answer to this. I've heard all kinds of things through the years about this or that kind of practice opening one to demons. As you know, I've shared a number of times that I'm a lot more concerned about "regular Joes and Janes" who don't have any spiritual practice or religious involvement and are caught up in popular culture. To my understanding, the devil has a greater affinity with the false self system and can more easily manipulate people caught up in such than with people who are sincerely trying to grow closer to God in this or that religion. It would seem to me to be a metaphysically unjust universe if the devil could slip into the consciousness of someone seeking God because they use the wrong name for God. God does know the heart of such people, and I'm sure provides the needed protections. People seeking spiritual power or some other sideshow are more vulnerable, imo, and if that's what they're after in their relations with a guru or even Christian charismatic leader, then that's a different matter.

I'm not too concerned about people with K awakenings being harassed by the devil. If their awakening has happened in the context of a deepening relationship with God, then any prunings or testings the devil is allowed to work on them will be more than compensated for with the grace to resist and grow. After all, Jesus said Satan was given permission to test Peter; and Satan tested Jesus, too, of course. Why not the rest of us? We do have a choice about whether or not we will consent with Satan's testings, and we do need God's grace to resist.

There's much mystery about all this, no? Smiler

- - -

Tuck, I've got to think some about your post above. I'll be back in touch soon. A few very busy days ahead.
 
Posts: 3516 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Shasha:

Phil, I think there's more going on than that, isn't there? Is it by virtue of *making spiritual progress* that incites demons or is it because through kundalini energy, one is just generally more open to the demonic? That's what I thought Bliss was getting at in his responses above, but I dunno.


While I believe Satan certainly can overtly attack someone and I'm sure it does happen, I think this idea that those who are intent on making spiritual progress are big targets for demonic attacks is in a lot of cases, more about the ego of the person making said spiritual progress, than anything else. That said, the irony is that the real spiritual attack is more likely in the weird self-important feeling of pride one might feel in thinking he is a target of THE DEVIL, rather than what is believed, on the surface, to be an attack. One of course combats this kind of evil, as we combat every evil, with virtue. Specifically, the virtue of humility is employed, which lets us see ourselves as we truly are, God as He truly is, and the reality of any other spirits as they truly are as well.

I can't speak to Hinduism specifically, but I'm familiar with people who have gone after one form or another of "self-evolution" apart from the Logos, and what I typically see is spiritual retardation because of this same self-important, delusional attitude. I suppose what makes these people dangerous is that they can be charismatic (because doing certain exercises, regardless of spiritual growth, simply increases charisma) and lead other people into the same dreamworld where they too end up thinking they're extra special and so on. When looked at clearly from the outside, the state resembles a form of madness more than anything, which is sad. I tend to agree with Phil, in that this type of niche insanity is much less of a problem than the normal brand of crazy which populates the world, i.e. people who ignore the spiritual all together in favor of the current culture.

That said, the people affected by it often start out seeking *something* genuine, even if they don't know what it is. The common denominator seems to be some kind of emotional instability, a hole that is filled by the spiritual feeling of importance that is gained by the presumption of being special and evolved. As Christians we know it's Christ who moves us and drives us and perfects us, and if we don't lose sight of that fact then we tend not to take too much credit for any progress we make, which goes a long way toward making sure we're not using our spirituality as an emotional crutch.

It seems that it's when we begin to believe that WE are the source of our specialness, and not Christ, that we in fact reject and blaspheme the Holy Spirit, and remove ourselves from the state of grace which is offered to us freely by God.

Paul
 
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This is how I judged the various entities that I have encountered during my years of exploration:

1John 4:1, 2, and 3:

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist of which you have heard that is coming, and now is already in the world."

For me the wisdom of this scripture has always worked. Satan and his folk always attempt to lead you away from Jesus and God. About evil demons and that kind of folk, God has always protected me. I have met a lot of them in my travels but they never wanted to mess with God and Jesus and God and Jesus were always there. I do not know what people do that do not have God and Jesus.
 
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One time when I was raising the male kundalini to find out what that was about, I zigged when I should have zagged and found myself floating outside of and above my body and I had no idea how to get back into my body. "God!" I said, "How do I get back into my body?" God put me back into my body. From there I zagged instead of zigging and all went well. I really love God and Jesus, They have always been there for me.
 
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Originally posted by BlissInTheHeart:
Shasha,

It is not like you write here !
Look back on site 1 of this thread, look at my first answer to Aviela. With no word i mentioned here Hinduisme ! It was you then who concluded .. concluded... concluded .... and finally you were at your favorite issue "false gods" again


Ah, yes, you are right. I misplaced my post as I was referring to the other kundalini thread discussion that was roughly overlapping with this one recently. And to clarify, my point in sharing the story about the exorcism isn't about false gods as much as the seemingly inextricable tie between kundalini and Hindu gods/goddesses. It seems they are often referred to as one and the same (in most of my kundalini-related yoga training). It seems you've found a healthy grounding in Christ as an advanced yogi too, and that does make you uniquely qualified to speak to 'kundalini Christians.'

In any case, I am truly sorry that I have offended you, Bliss. I think my insensitivity has struck again, unfortunately, as I see that I am coming across as overbearing and perhaps superficial/sarcastic. I appreciate your candor and hope we work toward creating an atmosphere of mutual respect and safety.
 
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Originally posted by myfutureself:

While I believe Satan certainly can overtly attack someone and I'm sure it does happen, I think this idea that those who are intent on making spiritual progress are big targets for demonic attacks is in a lot of cases, more about the ego of the person making said spiritual progress, than anything else. That said, the irony is that the real spiritual attack is more likely in the weird self-important feeling of pride one might feel in thinking he is a target of THE DEVIL, rather than what is believed, on the surface, to be an attack. One of course combats this kind of evil, as we combat every evil, with virtue. Specifically, the virtue of humility is employed, which lets us see ourselves as we truly are, God as He truly is, and the reality of any other spirits as they truly are as well.

I can't speak to Hinduism specifically, but I'm familiar with people who have gone after one form or another of "self-evolution" apart from the Logos, and what I typically see is spiritual retardation because of this same self-important, delusional attitude. I suppose what makes these people dangerous is that they can be charismatic (because doing certain exercises, regardless of spiritual growth, simply increases charisma) and lead other people into the same dreamworld where they too end up thinking they're extra special and so on. When looked at clearly from the outside, the state resembles a form of madness more than anything, which is sad. I tend to agree with Phil, in that this type of niche insanity is much less of a problem than the normal brand of crazy which populates the world, i.e. people who ignore the spiritual all together in favor of the current culture.

That said, the people affected by it often start out seeking *something* genuine, even if they don't know what it is. The common denominator seems to be some kind of emotional instability, a hole that is filled by the spiritual feeling of importance that is gained by the presumption of being special and evolved. As Christians we know it's Christ who moves us and drives us and perfects us, and if we don't lose sight of that fact then we tend not to take too much credit for any progress we make, which goes a long way toward making sure we're not using our spirituality as an emotional crutch.

It seems that it's when we begin to believe that WE are the source of our specialness, and not Christ, that we in fact reject and blaspheme the Holy Spirit, and remove ourselves from the state of grace which is offered to us freely by God.

Paul
That all sounds very insightful and wise to me, Paul. About the last sentence in believing ourselves to be the source of our specialness. We are neither the source of our ordinary creaturely uniqueness nor the source of our specialness as the New Creations underway through Christ. Having supernatural experiences and / or mystical graces places even greater demands for our gratitude and right understanding of God's role in our transformation.

Having supernatural/mystical experiences does make us statistically more 'special' as in unusual, relative to most of the world. The more unusual your experiences, the more rare and 'special' you will be, as a matter of fact. So we do have to cope with being different and have to contend with how to deal with that and relate to others in honest ways concerning our 'specialness' without losing sight of God's action. Sometimes one is so afraid of being the target of envy that they go out of their way to conceal, distort, or deny their experiences, which is a different kind of neurotic problem. Maybe that's called 'false humility' in fact. And often, I've seen myself go through this, swing between the two poles of claiming specialness (pride) and denying it (false humility). Ha ha! Glad to see that dying down in my old age. Anyway, that's a total sidebar discussion, but I want to say that I appreciate your sharing Paul! Smiler
 
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One of the major gifts of Christians to other Christians and to the world are testimonials. Jesus Christ "truly" working in one's life should be shared with others no matter what one's motivation is. And to Jesus Christ all Christians are special no matter what state of ignorance they are in.
 
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In any case, I am truly sorry that I have offended you, Bliss. I think my insensitivity has struck again, unfortunately, as I see that I am coming across as overbearing and perhaps superficial/sarcastic. I appreciate your candor and hope we work toward creating an atmosphere of mutual respect and safety.


Ah, dear Shasha, posts like this do help to create an atmosphere of openness and honesty. You have been a blessing to me many times, and helpful to many on the forum through the years. It's not easy communicating about these kinds of topics in a written medium, but I think you are very good at it.
 
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Smiler
 
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What is funny is that Shiva and I are very close good friends and he is not actually a god. He is a very advanced yogi that has been around for several thousand or more years and still lives on this planet in physical form.

Tucker . . . c'mon, man! Wink
 
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It seems like our unconscious has the power to create and manifest and exteriorize what then appear to us as spirits, ghosts, entities, etc.

From all that I have been reading here & elsewhere and through my own experiences where I am being made aware of my own imbalances, etc.
I tend to believe that Kundalini can manifest itself and exteriorize itself so that it may at times appear as a hallucination, but may in fact simply be a part of one's psyche...like the figures in dreams....some are positive and some are manifestations of imbalance and so are "negative".
But at the same time there actually may be spirits that are outside entities... they maybe genuine and trustworthy, or they may be playing around...how could one know for sure??
 
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