quote:

Originally posted by samson:
severe periods of trauma at times.

Samson, I was looking in Yvonne Kason's book to see if there was anything there that might help you. Her basic advice is no meditation, no reading, and brief prayers only. She also advises manual work and a diet rich in proteins, especially meat.

How does that advice sit with you?

Yes, Derek, absolutely, that's the way of it during the difficult times, a basic living if at all possible - or does she mean this as a general practise outside of these times as a way of diminishing them?

I find I automatically enter deep meditative states when things are going well, even when I sit down outside or in a coffee shop or say a simple prayer.


Phil,

Can the variety of mystical experiences and teaching highlighted by each tradition transcend the foundational belief structure of each and blur distinctions at that level? I'm thinking too of people who have spontaneous mystical experiences, frequently after trauma, some relational, some unitive, without a faith or belief underpinning them.

quote:

...
As some will know, I went to an energy healer as a young, naive kid, kundalini newly activated, and have been struggling with the consequences ever since. An attachment was made, who's roots appear to be karmic and deeply hidden in my psyche, and despite a number of exercises and visualisations, and lots of prayer, the link just hasn't been severed, causing severe periods of trauma at times....

I think that to a certain extent the "reason" for a current pattern of difficulty is not terribly important in itself. If X happened ten or twenty years ago, it happened. But now, what is happening is this: "I am a person to which X happened ten years ago." - in other words, we can end up constructing an ongoing identity around a past event (of any kind, good or bad) that creates a hindrance to dealing with what's going on now.

What's going on now might be "I have panic attacks when I drive" or "I don't trust people" or "I have fear when I meditate." What's more helpful is to focus on sorting out those issues in the present. Part of that sorting out may include realizing that any given past experience is not what defines who you really are, but just one of many experiences which make up the whole of who you are.

quote:

Phil,

Can the variety of mystical experiences and teaching highlighted by each tradition transcend the foundational belief structure of each and blur distinctions at that level? I'm thinking too of people who have spontaneous mystical experiences, frequently after trauma, some relational, some unitive, without a faith or belief underpinning them.

Just to add a thought to this - I think that various mystical experiences are natural to human beings, and thus are incorporated into various religious traditions, each of which frames them in their own context. That the experiences may be similar, or that various other elements of them (religions) may be shared in common (ie general ethical principles) does not make the religious traditions the same.

quote:

I think that to a certain extent the "reason" for a current pattern of difficulty is not terribly important in itself. If X happened ten or twenty years ago, it happened. But now, what is happening is this: "I am a person to which X happened ten years ago." - in other words, we can end up constructing an ongoing identity around a past event (of any kind, good or bad) that creates a hindrance to dealing with what's going on now.

What's going on now might be "I have panic attacks when I drive" or "I don't trust people" or "I have fear when I meditate." What's more helpful is to focus on sorting out those issues in the present. Part of that sorting out may include realizing that any given past experience is not what defines who you really are, but just one of many experiences which make up the whole of who you are.

I agree, Ona. I don't think mistakes define us, or should bother us at all in terms of identity. Let's deal with whatever issue is at hand.

I do think however, that owning our history and trying to understand the deeper reasons for our decisions gives life purpose and direction. Plus, knowing that a current experience is the consequence of a previous action might be necessary if we're to deal with that experience at root level.

In any case, a little background history on the dangers of energy work at this level is no bad thing.

quote:

Phil,

Can the variety of mystical experiences and teaching highlighted by each tradition transcend the foundational belief structure of each and blur distinctions at that level?

That all depends on God, not us. But there is no question in my mind that one's beliefs shape one's manner of opening to the divine. If I am repeating a mantra 100,000 times and come to a trans-egoic experience, is this the same as the trans-egoic experience of Christian contemplation? Are all trans-egoic experiences the same? I sincerely doubt it.

The mystical literature from the world religions indicates similarities, but also clear differences as well. Some would like to chalk this up to cultural expression, but I don't think that explains it. Of course, one will also find significant variation within a world religion as well, so that needs to be accounted for.

Writers like Merton, Henri LaSaux (Abishiktananda), Bede Griffiths and William Johnston entered deeply into the mystical traditions of both Christianity and Buddhism or Hinduism, and none of them say "it's all the same thing." Of these four, I knew William Johnston and had extensive conversations and correspondence with him about this topic, and he recognized significant differences between the Zen he practiced and Christian spiritual experience. Johnston knew Bede Griffiths (who knew LaSaux) and had corresponded with Merton, and they all concurred. It was not even clear that these various mysticisms were "complementary." LaSaux found that advaita pulled him in a different direction than Christian spirituality, and he struggled to understand and integrate this.
- http://www.aimintl.org/index.p...ntent&id=567&lang=en

I do not understand this rush these days to say that at the mystical level everything is all the same. That seems to gloss over the distinctive messages of the world religions. If all mysticisms are the same, then, of course, it doesn't really matter what religion one belongs to, just so it finally leads you to mystical consciousness. The world religions provide different kinds of formation for human receptivity to the divine, however, and my sense is that this is very important. As a Christian, especially, I want to be sure that I am being open the kind of connection with God that Christ makes available. That necessarily means considering what the Church says about how this connection is developed.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
I do not understand this rush these days to say that at the mystical level everything is all the same.

It's probably due to a lack of knowledge. You were fortunate to come across men who had in-depth experience of more than one tradition and who could speak authoritatively about the differences. Most people never come across that rare kind of evidence.

quote:

Originally posted by samson:
does she mean this as a general practise outside of these times as a way of diminishing them?

I don't have the book with me. I'll have to look later on.

Derek
I'd be happy to give you feedback on your experience of awakening if you are interested. I just can't find an account of it other than in your book.
If you could post a summary I could have a look.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil
Writers like Merton, Henri LaSaux (Abishiktananda), Bede Griffiths and William Johnston entered deeply into the mystical traditions of both Christianity and Buddhism or Hinduism, and none of them say "it's all the same thing." cut...

It was not even clear that these various mysticisms were "complementary." cut

I do not understand this rush these days to say that at the mystical level everything is all the same.

I totally agree Phil. This is the area where my conversations with friends of other belief systems stagnate.

quote:

Originally posted by samson:
does she mean this as a general practise outside of these times as a way of diminishing them?

I've looked at that chapter in the book again, and it's not clear if she means these to be a general practice or only while symptoms persist.

quote:

Originally posted by KundaliniTherapist:
If you could post a summary I could have a look.

Thanks, but I don't have the urge to re-tell the story.

Derek,

I've ordered the book. From what I gather she means these as grounding during difficult symptoms, which is sound advice. Periods of extended meditation open up as the energy does and the difficulties subside. Interestingly though, the part about reading and concentration seems to apply generally. I can't read or concentrate my thought deeply for too long these days. Although that doesn't apply to non-reflective, concentrated awareness.

quote:

Originally posted by samson:
Although that doesn't apply to non-reflective, concentrated awareness.

You mean you can concentrate if you have a fixed, predetermined task to concentrate on, with no scope for reflection?

Yes, but more that non-reflective emptiness, or fullness rather, which Phil talks about, which can be there for extended periods when I turn to it and which is quite radiant and increasing in depth (and I suppose isn't so much concentrated as just present). This is what gets snatched away during periods of contraction, when it's impossible to meditate. Even during the full periods I'm sometimes aware of the subtle negative attachment however, like living in a beautiful, sunlit house, but knowing something nasty lives in the attic. I can do visualisation exercises to protect myself or block it, which sometimes work and at times there are protective force, angelic or otherwise.

Reading and any kind of philosophical thought are limited whatever state I seem to be in.