Subscribe to "A Daily Spiritual Seed" eNewsletter.
ShalomPlace.com    Shalom Place Community    Shalom Place Discussion Groups  Hop To Forum Categories  Premium Groups  Hop To Forums  Growing in Christ    F. Conference One - Personal Christ (A)
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
F. Conference One - Personal Christ (A) Login/Join 
posted
See this link for the conference online.

Please use this thread to share your questions and comments about the conference.

-------

Questions for reflection and discussion

1. What part(s) of this conference can you relate to?

2. How would you describe your relationship with the personal, historical Jesus?

3. What questions or comments would you like to ask about this topic?
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of philokalia933
posted Hide Post
I said I wasn't going to post much, if anything, but oY! I didn't know how good this was going to be---shame on me, eh? AND some of us---ME---should read directions FIRST.
I hope I am posting to the right place now! Smiler


1. What part(s) of this conference can you relate to?

--I must keep this short for everyone's sake, but the part that I related to the most was the Ignatian method. I was imaging gospel sections LONG before I even heard of the Ignatian Method---and it is a method that I haven't done. [will be doing to a 3 day silent retreat on Ignatian method in June-----I know....3 days???!!!! well, there ya go. guess it will be to get one's toes wet and whet one's appetite.]

The powerful thing about imagining yourself in a gospel scene, interacting or even observing is how much that particular portion of scripture is ingrained in one's memory!
And since I NEVER had a good memory, it has helped me in remembering some very powerful wonderful gospel portions.

2. How would you describe your relationship with the personal,
historical Jesus?
---my relationship is one that continues to evolve but also at times, it sort of like taking 2 steps back and one forward. Have gone a similar route as the moderators.....yet, I have never had to wonder about protestants and their 'personal Lord and Savior' since I am a convert. Smiler
I am deeply grateful for the biblical foundation I received in the protestant churches. It is amazing how unaware many cradle catholics are of what's in scripture......but then they haven't had sunday school, bible study, etc......;0 But that is not easy because studying scripture can also be dangerous if one thinks they can interpret it on their own. I no longer am all that concerned about the 'interpretation' [I leave that to theologians and scholars] as I am about 'relating' to a scene via imaging.

3. What questions or comments would you like to ask about this topic?

At the end the moderator states: I don't always have that strong sense of
encountering him in the Gospels as I did then,

QUESTION: and I wonder: why not? I still am touched deeply when I come across a passage that I had 'imaged'......and sometimes I sit with it again. Powerful! Maybe I need to understand the moderator's viewpoint in deeper way.



The moderator shared how vital it was to finally come to see Jesus as human.....a friend...instead of the divine side. Well, I, as a convert, continue to struggle with seeing Jesus as Divine as I know He is.....I still see His humanity to a much greater degree than His Divinity. Something to work on...........
has anyone else had a similar problem?

peace
 
Posts: 26 | Location: GA | Registered: 24 February 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of AnnieK
posted Hide Post
1. What part(s) of this conference can you relate to?

I can really relate to this part:

I still felt drawn more to God and the Holy Spirit than to Jesus.

I have always felt this way. Even when I was very young I was comfortable and felt a closeness with God. But I was never comfortable with the idea of being close to Jesus. And as I got older I was probably even LESS comfortable with it. I really have trouble relating to Jesus.

2. How would you describe your relationship with the personal, historical Jesus?

I don't relate to him. I always approach things based on my relationship to God.

3. What questions or comments would you like to ask about this topic?

I wonder if my problem "relating" to Jesus has to do with my being an INFP?
 
Posts: 172 | Location: Missouri | Registered: 10 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
I found my personal relationship strengthen with Christ at first, when I helped others. I felt like, "He would be pleased."

Then, when I became a catechist with small children, I taught them about Jesus in acting out the Gospel stories we would read.

When I saw the deepening understanding they received, I began to also put myself in seeing the Gospel through the eyes of a child, relecting on how Jesus felt. Why his friends were all fisherman, how Mary and Joseph felt hiding from Herod, seeking the relation of the Gospel as life has evolved to now.

Last, but not least, as I learned to forgive, including forgiving myself, I felt the presence of Jesus as making this possible, in seeing Him as a "person" able to do this, than I also could try. In following Jesus, the motivation to forgive as He did motivates me.

Thanks for the Lenten Series.
 
Posts: 1 | Location: FL | Registered: 26 February 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
I was in a lot better space when I read the conference this morning than I am this evening. I received a piece of adaptive equipment back from being serviced, and something that worked before isn't working now, and I'm fighting the temptation to assum the worst possible scenario, having to send the equipment back in; and I'm trying to learn to be detached about the whole thing. So here I am, in my efforts to do something besides obssess about frustrating situations. Smiler

The thing that struck me about the conference was the idea of imagining myself in gospel scenes. I had a friend years ago whose spiritual director recommended that she picture herself meeting Jesus at the well where he met the woman, and to imagine what he'd say to her and what she'd say to him. That sounded fascinating to me, but I found (and still find) this hard to do, because I feel like I'm putting words into Jesus' mouth, or attributing actions to him that he might or might not do. In other words, I don't want to attribute things to him that are really just me. But I like the idea of the gospel scenes still being in his memory of things he experienced while here in the flesh. I might try imagining myself with him as he does what he does, rather than as a character in the stories. Then I wouldn't feel so much like I was changing the story to suit my wants and needs, and could talk to him about what I see him doing or not doing in his interactions with the people in the story. Lots to think about, if I can get myself calm enough to do that. Smiler
 
Posts: 46 | Location: Sacramento, CA | Registered: 14 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
Hi all,
I'm a 47 year-old African American woman born and raised in the Deep South. I'm currently a chaplain in a major trauma center of the Dallas-Fort Worth area. My early childhood years were pretty traumatic, so I was taught early on to take all of my cares and concerns to Jesus in prayer and to expect a response. Part of our earliest religious education revolved around my mother's (and others whom we knew) experience of Jesus as human enough to care about our very human needs. I was taught that nothing was beyond Jesus..that he accepted everything I sincerely brought and that best of all he accepted me! I now realize that I was very blessed to have such a faith-filled mom.

I think I resonated most, Phil, with your statement regarding the "bond of love growing with the Person of Jesus". I feel that Jesus is my one TRUE friend and I enjoy His company a lot. (I know this might sound a bit far-fetched to some, but I'm just being honest about my feelings!) What has really got me to a place of reflection, though, has been the statement regarding "how" I experience Jesus' Presence in the Gospels, i.e. connecting with Jesus through his memories while He was here. That statement gives me time to pause and think about our interrelationship with each other as human beings...do you know what I mean? Smiler
 
Posts: 7 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: 15 April 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
Freda, yes, I do know what you mean. That idea of shared memories being a way we're connected with others does apply to more than just our relationship with Jesus; it applies to everyone. Notice how when we take time to remember things with others, we grow in a sense of our connection with them. It's the same with Jesus in the Gospels. And no problem, here, with your exerience of Jesus as a friend. I understand what you mean by that.

----

Anne, I very much relate to how you describe your sense of God. As you noted, the conference describes my own past experience in similar terms. I hope this series will help to develop the Christological dimension of your relationship with God.

---

Peggy, I'd love to see how you manage to interact on a computer. It's very gratifying to have you part of this series. I hope your support equipment works out OK; that must be frustrating when it's not.

I do know what you mean about wondering if our imaginative interactions with Jesus are just our doing, or if they're graced exeriences. I think to know for sure we have to see what the effects are: is there a sense of closeness/relationship that develops . . . a shift in oneself toward a greater capacity to love, forgive, etc. Self-delusion is always a possibility, which is why we ultimately evaluate things according to the fruits of the Spirit.

-----

alyse, what a delightful idea: looking at the Gospels as through the eyes of a child! That's one way to avoid what Frank Sheed once called a "pious coma," the idea being that we've heard the teachings and stories so many times that we don't really listen. I do recall how answering children's questions about Jesus helps to bring a sense of him; ours are mostly grown up now, so it's been awhile.

Anne, as a teacher of young children, can you relate to what alyse is sharing here?

---

Mary Teresa, you are very much in the right place, and do not feel constrained in your sharing.

Yes, yes: three steps forward and two backward. Please do share more about how you experienced Jesus from your years in a Protestant tradition and how you do so now. It will be interesting to hear what similarities and differences there are.

---

Thank you all for your sharing thus far. Let's please continue with reflection on the questions, and any related issues as well.

It might help you to know that Conference Two will address some practical "how to" methods for developing a relationship with the personal, historical Jesus.

Phil
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
The part I really relate to is Phil's eight day private retreat at Grand Coteau, La. Mine was in 1978 and my first practical introduction to the Ignatian method of sharing the memories of the historical Jesus by interracting in the gospels. My most fun time was getting in the water while Jesus was being baptized, feeling the divine life-giving flow, and even daring to splash my new Friend. To this day, since I don't have a jacuzzi, it is every bit as reviving. In later years I learned the word anamnesis, which is remembering something to make it present (big ex. the Catholic Mass). I'm not sure how to describe my relationship with the personal historical Jesus, since it varies from time to time, but at present, and usually foremost, He is my Friend.
May we all continue to grow in Christ,
Nettie
 
Posts: 10 | Location: Gramercy, Louisiana | Registered: 23 February 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Picture of brjaan
posted Hide Post
Growing up a fundamentalist and then my involvement with Pentecostalism, post Jesus movement and charismatic movements the personal relationship with Jesus idea was not a problem. What I did not have a lot of is the idea of the divine side of God. I also was suffering from a hidden addiction at the time. What bothers me most of born again language or knowing Jesus Personally is each group would define it differently and if you did not follow they're particular slant, doctrine or formula or use the religious language they use at best your relationship with Jesus was not what it could be or at worst suspect. So admittedly when I hear language like you need a personal with Jesus I cringe!! My relationship with Jesus as for me been a journey 1st through the misconceptions of intense church experiences, dysfunctional family issues and addictive behavior clouding any real meaningful knowing or being with Christ. In the end I used the more radical christian rock culture and my addiction to numb my depression and pain. I guess despite the rhetoric and the altar calls ( Fundamentalist Churches use this after sermon or emotional appeal for salvation. The pastor then makes an invitation to anyone who feels they need to make a commitment to Christ or recomitt. This can be a very emotional part of the service) I learned more to hate myself than to know Christ. Living Communally in a Christian Rock Music Commune called Jesus People USA in Chicago helped me begin to think outside my depressed world and form real relationships. I am more of an introvert that coupled with the addiction I struggled with kept me from connecting with Jesus the way I saw people do around me. From community until today my life descended into the mire of addiction and my Wife's battle with mental illness. All cliques know Jesus Personally for me became meaningless. On a whim I attended a Episcopal Church and discovered liturgical Christianity. Here was quiteness, meditation, silent prayer, order (my life was a wreck) and no emotional appeals. I had never been in a place like that. This the ministry of John Micheal Talbot, and visiting local Franciscan, & Jesuit monasteries would lead me into the Catholic Church but I was still acting out my addiction what I did find was place to cry, sacred ground the holy peace in the midst of my own confusion. Through the help of a Priest I found SA a wonderful 12 step program saving my marriage and beginning my Journey into Recovery. I guess for me I could not know God until I accepted and loved myself.
 
Posts: 205 | Location: McHenry Illinois | Registered: 01 July 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
Hi, I don't know if I will send this or not... but I have been reading the intros and comments of others. When I received the first conference I quickly read through it and had no clue how I would answer any of the questions. They haunted me, especially # 2. How would I describe my relationship with Christ, historically and personally? After rereading it many times and deciding the only way through this was to write something down, I am attempting to verbalize my feelings.

My relationship with Christ has been troublesome. It has always left me wanting more. I resonate with the struggles that Phil and others were experiencing. I also have connected to God more easily than Christ. I too envied those people that seemed to have a personal relationship with him. I have read all types of books, went on retreats, talk to spiritual directors, attended different churches...always seeking him but never really being satisfied. I wonder still what it would be like to have a personal relationship( ie: lovable and more "real") with him. I suppose this is hard to hear but it's the truth. I desire it but maybe what I desire isn't possible?
I tried reading scripture as was suggested ( putting myself emotionally into the story) and I have not had much luck. Perhaps I try too hard or am reading the wrong scripture? Surely there are some that lend themselves to seeing/feeling Christ through this method more readily than others? Lately my prayer life seems dull and unfulfilling. Lately I wonder if I know Christ at all. There is so many different versions out there and so few that have any true depth. I attend a peace church yet the world does not want to hear Jesus' version of peace. I saw the Passion the other night(I am still wondering what I hoped to find in it). The Christ that was portrayed was a standardize white American version. There was little reference to why Christ was singled out, why his beliefs were so provocative, and what we are called to do if we believe Christ and not just believe in Him. At this point I realize that I am way off course with this whole thing. I apologize.
Some how there must be a way to connect with Christ. Somehow there must be a way to ask him to come into my life and be in charge. How I live my life determines the relationship I have with him.

So I guess if I had to ask one question from the group it would be how does one develop a relationship with Christ and are you satisfied with the depth of your current relationship with him? ~ elizabeth

PS; Thank you for this series. I am finding it very thought provoking. Recevied the 2nd conference and already I see that my questions are being answered. Peace be with you.
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: 23 February 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
Dear Brjaan,
I really resonated with a lot of your experiences because I, too, was raised in a very fundamentalist tradition. I am finding, like you have found, that it is absolutely imperative for me to love and care for and accept myself. I believe that we are a lot harder on ourselves and less merciful than God is. I am learning to be kind to myself especially in self-talk and self-expectation...to be gentle with myself as well. This might not apply to you, but it has certainly been helpful for me. Since I work as a chaplain, I have found that compassion for others begins in Christ and certainly includes compassion for myself! Wink
 
Posts: 7 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: 15 April 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posted Hide Post
From Elizabeth:
So I guess if I had to ask one question from the group it would be how does one develop a relationship with Christ and are you satisfied with the depth of your current relationship with him? ~ elizabeth

PS; Thank you for this series. I am finding it very thought provoking. Recevied the 2nd conference and already I see that my questions are being answered. Peace be with you.


-----

Yes, Elizabeth, I think the second conference addressed some of your questions. Maybe you could post something on the thread for that conference sometime to let us know if the suggestions were helpful to you.
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

ShalomPlace.com    Shalom Place Community    Shalom Place Discussion Groups  Hop To Forum Categories  Premium Groups  Hop To Forums  Growing in Christ    F. Conference One - Personal Christ (A)