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Psychologist, Poet and Mystic

Picture of John Rowan
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I am looking for people studying and/or practising trinitarian mysticism. I have read some stuff on this topic, such as Jurgen Moltmann and George Maloney, and had some trinitarian experiences in my daily meditation, and organised one workshop at a conference. I am in the UK, which might be a problem for some people. But I would love to find anyone anywhere to talk to about this, because I have not succeeded up to now.
 
Posts: 5 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: 08 November 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John, welcome to Shalom Place. Some time ago I read a book you wrote on subpersonalities.

I associate the expression "Indwelling Trinity" with the Carmelite Sr. Elizabeth of the Trinity. I suppose all Christian contemplatives could be referred to as "trinitarian mystics" in a general sense, but I suspect that's not what you mean -- or is it?
 
Posts: 1020 | Location: Canada | Registered: 03 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Greetings, John.

Sometime back we had a discussion on the doctrine of the Trinity, and I can track it down if you're interested. That's not quite the same as trinitarian mysticism, I know.

I'm wondering, too, what you would mean by Trinitarian mysticism. As Derek noted, all Christians believe that God is Trinity and so to relate to God is to relate to the Trinity. It's also common for people to relate to God the Father in one manner, or at certain times, and same for the Son and Spirit. I know that's the case in my own prayer life: that there are times when I'm drawn to the Father, Son or Spirit.

On another discussion, I shared the quote below, which might be of relevance to this topic as well. It does give evidence of a profoundly deep and mystical sense of the Persons of the Trinity.
quote:
The Adornment of the Spiritual Marriage
by St. John of Rusybroeck (1293-1381)

The enlightened person shall also mark and behold the attributes of the Father in the Godhead: how He is omnipotent Power and Might, Creator, Mover, Preserver, Beginning and End, the Origin and Being of all creatures. This the rill of grace shows to the enlightened reason in its radiance. It also shows the attributes of the Eternal Word: abysmal Wisdom and Truth, Pattern of all creatures and all life, Eternal and unchanging Rule, Seeing all things and Seeing Through all things, none of which is hidden from Him; Transillumination and Enlightenment of all saints in heaven and on earth, according to the merits of each. And even as this rill of radiance shows the distinctions between many things, so it also shows to the enlightened reason the attributes of the Holy Ghost: incomprehensible Love and Generosity, Compassion and Mercy, infinite Faithfulness and Benevolence, inconceivable Greatness, outpouring Richness, a limitless Goodness drenching through all heavenly spirits with delight, a Flame of fire which burns all things together in the Unity, a flowing Fountain, rich in all savours, according to the desire of each; the Preparation of all saints for their eternal bliss and their entrance therein, an Embrace and Penetration of the Father, the Son, and all saints in fruitive Unity. All this is observed and beheld without differentiation or division in the simple Nature of the Godhead. And according to our perception these attributes abide as Persons do, in manifold distinctions. For between might and goodness, between generosity and truth, there are, according to our perception great differences. Nevertheless all these are found in oneness and undifferentiation in the most high Nature of the Godhead. But the relations which make the personal attributes remain in eternal distinction. For the Father begets distinction. For the Father incessantly begets his Son, and Himself is unbegotten; and the Son is begotten, and cannot beget; and thus throughout eternity the Father has a Son, and the Son a Father. And these are the relations of the Father to the Son, and of the Son to the Father. And the Father and the Son breathe forth one Spirit, Who is Their common Will or Love. And this Spirit begets not, nor is He begotten; but must eternally pour forth, being breathed forth from both the Father and the Son. And these three Persons are one God and one Spirit. And all the attributes with the works which flow forth from them are common to all the Persons, for They work by virtue of Their Onefold Nature.

- Chapter 37: The second rill enlightens understanding.
 
Posts: 3954 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Psychologist, Poet and Mystic

Picture of John Rowan
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Yes, that last quote is just the sort of thing I want to go into. I have had just this kind of experience or insight, and would like to meet others who have too. I want current people, not people from the past, who I can only meet in a library!
 
Posts: 5 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: 08 November 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
and had some trinitarian experiences in my daily meditation,



Hello John,

Glad you found your way here from FB. I attended two of your workshops at the Orangerie some years ago 'Listening at the causal level!'I was the sole Spiritual Director!!

I would dearly love to hear of your own trinitarian experiences in your meditation.

Blessings,
 
Posts: 65 | Location: Ireland | Registered: 18 March 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think Rusybroeck's amazing description posted above gives us a clue as to what to pay attention to in our experiences of God. Part of my "problem" is that my theological training has impressed upon me most strongly what we call the "ad-extra rule" -- that whatever any of the Persons do, God does. So although we can see the action of the Father, Son, and Spirit in salvation history (the "economic Trinity") and speak of their relations in the Godhead (the "metaphysical Trinity"), it is difficult to isolate their actions in our lived out spirituality.

In general, I do relate to the Persons differently: to the Father as the unmanifest transcendent One; to the Son as the manifest One who is with me and is the source of all form; to the Spirit as the unmanifest immanent, creative One who empowers me to love: God beyond me, God with me, God within me. So the Trinity speaks to me of how God totally encompasses and embraces me. It also seems that the Persons, in Their relating to one another, also keep me from focusing too much on any of these modes of presence -- e.g., that God is mostly out there and beyond, or mostly interior. This brings a balance to spiritual living.
 
Posts: 3954 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Psychologist, Poet and Mystic

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My own experiences are of the dance. One time I was the Son, dancing to the Father, then interrupted by the Spirit, round and round, back to the Father. Then becoming the Father, embracing the Son, dancing round to the Spirit, changing over, in and out, round and round, then being the Spirit, feeling feminine, dancing more wildly, in and out, round and round, all in the name of love, all love, all round, in and out, love all the time!
 
Posts: 5 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: 08 November 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John, that's an amazingly graced perspective you share. Sounds like a "love-go-round," which reminds me of an old song by Anne Murray (Cotton Jenny).

My understanding is that we stand in the Trinity with Christ as members of his mystical Body, which makes it somewhat difficult to focus on him per se without the movement of the Spirit to give witness to him. Christ, in turn, blesses us with his Spirit and moves us to give praise to the Father. My prayer does move in these directions at times, though I have little experience in seeing things from the Father's perspective. There are times when I look out upon the creation and marvel at how wonderful and good it is, and perhaps this is a sharing in the Father's attitude, though I'm sure Christ and the Spirit feel this way as well.
 
Posts: 3954 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Psychologist, Poet and Mystic

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That sounds as if you are keeping them separate, whereas the doctrine of the perichoresis says that they are continually changing places and changing partners in a kind of perpetual dance. I also like the word interinanimation, although I can't find it in the dictionary.
 
Posts: 5 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: 08 November 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John, the Persons are distinct even as they mutually indwell one another. It seems quite common for Christians to be drawn to one or another of the Persons in their distinctness and roles in salvation history. Understanding or even experiencing their indwellingness is a whole other matter, and the metaphor of a perpetual dance would be a good way to put it.

Wikipedia has a good article on Perichoresis.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perichoresis
 
Posts: 3954 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 27 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John,

How beautiful. Reminds me of Rumi. Thank you for sharing this.

Hmmm. beautiful...
 
Posts: 65 | Location: Ireland | Registered: 18 March 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Psychologist, Poet and Mystic

Picture of John Rowan
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Yes what I am interested in is the Trinity considered as a Trinity. I like George Maloney, who says "We human beings are being drawn constantly into the very heart of God in order to be divinized and to share the triune life. In God's transcendence and immanence, the dynamism of His energies is an interaction with us human beings, all in order to lead us to a transfiguration whereby we will be truly made sharers in the very life and love of the Holy Trinity."
 
Posts: 5 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: 08 November 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John, thank you so much for posting your comments & experiences. It is like a door has been opened. Interesting what you wrote Clare
about Rumi. Cause when I read this whole thread since the "spiritual wedding" I've
wanted to dance. Smiler

quote:
Originally posted by John Rowan:
Yes what I am interested in is the Trinity considered as a Trinity. I like George Maloney, who says "We human beings are being drawn constantly into the very heart of God in order to be divinized and to share the triune life. In God's transcendence and immanence, the dynamism of His energies is an interaction with us human beings, all in order to lead us to a transfiguration whereby we will be truly made sharers in the very life and love of the Holy Trinity."
 
Posts: 400 | Registered: 01 April 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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