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Originally posted by Derek:
Okay, I've had another look at the fifth mansion. What St. Teresa describes as the prayer of union is a change in reality: the soul becomes joined to God, at least temporarily. The descriptions of kensho that I can find are more about a change in perception, with reality remaining the same. So going back to your original post, "how it is different from the apophatic mysticisms we find in Buddhism, Taoism, etc." I would point to that as a difference. The Christian mystic undergoes a change in reality, while the Eastern mystic experiences only a change in perception. Clearly, "the diagram" will have to be revised -- but not for now, as I've spent way too much time fiddling around with it!

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Originally posted by Tucker:

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Originally posted by Phil:
Traditionally, Christian contemplation has been considered an example of apophatic mysticism. Why? Because it gives testimony to an encounter with God that is not mediated through active engagement with word, symbol, etc., though it is often experienced during or after such activities. Rather, contemplation is the experience of God communicating with us "spirit-to-spirit," as it were, in a depth of our being beyond the activities of the faculties. It is pure grace because we cannot reach God in this manner through the exercise of our will or intellect; it is God who reaches to us. We might or might not experience activity in our faculties -- even distractions -- but these are no impediments to contemplation unless we close ourselves off at the level of the will to God's self-communication. Contemplation does leave us free to do so; it is not a matter of become possessed by God over-and-against our permission.

The problem with the mystic world is that it generally comes into conflict with tradition, and we also end up having the question, "Who is getting the real experience and who is not?"

And some times God tells Jonah to go talk to some folks and Jonah says no. I love Jesus and I love Christianity. As far as I am concerned there is absolutely no better option in the world. None.

just love,

tuck

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Originally posted by Jaan:
I agree that eastern mystics tend to talk about their union in terms of in personal force and the goal they have is more about perception then the change of reality. Part of this may be in the language used in describing the experience.
In the East God or the supreme being tends to be described as a force that binds nature giving birth to the many Gods or ways of life. In the West mysticism tends to more personal an experience with a deity or in the case of Christianity Christ. There are some marked differences in are approach but in many cases the experiences themselves are similar.
If we could move beyond the language I think we would find much that both spiritualities can learn from each other. Benedictine's have long had relationships with Buddhists the most famous being Thomas Merton.
I would say the faiths and world views are incompatible but not the techniques, experiences and spiritualities.