| Please support this ministry with a tax-deductible donation. |
Shalom Place Community
Shalom Place Discussion Groups
General Discussion Forums
Religion and Culture
What Makes People Vote Republican?|
Go
![]() |
New
![]() |
Find
![]() |
Notify
![]() |
Tools
![]() |
Reply
![]() |
|
See http://www.edge.org/documents/...e/edge256.html#haidt and scroll down a little.
The author has a strong liberal/Democrat bias, but he really does try to understand what makes Red-State America tick. In doing so, he comes to an appreciation of the kinds of moral values that are at the heart of conservatism and articulates one of the best definitions of morality that I've ever come across: That's an excellent definition of what Spiral Dynamics means by the Blue vMeme code. - - - Scroll down after reading to Michael Shermer's reflection on this piece, which is also excellent.
|
|||
|
LOL! You're trolling, right?
a. They're taught by other liberal professors. b. They've never worked in the "real world." c. If you hold conservative viewpoints, you're ostracized, your grants aren't funded, and you don't make tenure. How's that for a retort? |
||||
|
| <HeartPrayer>
|
Liberal" universities, the "real world", and the conservative view
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- a) This sounds like a "chicken and the egg" argument. It also implies that people (students, graduate students, etc) are unable to think for themselves. I, for one, have been taught by teachers/professors far more conservative than I am -- as well as by some that were far more liberal. That does not entail that I have "swallowed" their views on politics or any other aspect of life. I simply don�t buy the epidemiological view implied by the dismissive phrase "taught by other liberal professors". In fact, I find it more than a bit arrogant. For instance, my linguistics professor had had the honour of doing his graduate studies and post-graduate research with the great linguist Noam Chomsky. The focus was on syntactic structures, generative and transformational grammar. Not once did he ever talk about Chomsky�s political views! And no one asked. b) The real world... My impression is that a lot of academia is deeply rooted in, and has a profound dialogue with, what we may term "the real world". Sure, one can escape into obscure theory. However, the teachers and professors that I had the great pleasure of studying with had (almost invariably!) one trait in common: a profound desire to understand "the real world" in which we live. Based on conversations with many former students (currently politically conservative as well as liberal), I would say that my experience is more the rule than the exception. c) Well, I recall a particular Norwegian professor (Harald Trefall) who repeatedly used his position as a podium from which to loudly profess his views. One of the most xenophopic and racist public figures I�ve ever had the displeasure to read. His position at the University, however, was unassailable. In short, I don�t think much of the retort. I think you will have to come up with something better than an epidemiological/conspiratorial dismissal. |
||
|
I don't know, HP.
Try http://www.oregoncatalyst.com/...lmingly-Liberal.html or http://www.americanvision.org/...archive/04-06-05.asp By "real world," I meant the of experience working in it, not trying to understand it with their intellects. Many professors are lifetime students/researchers/teachers who've never mixed it up with blue collar folks. I know you're meaning to imply that they're smarter because they are liberal, but that would ignore the extraordinarly intelligent people who are also more on the conservative side of issues. Btw, what did you mean by "the Republican view" in "there is a noticeable correlation between higher education and the avoidance of the Republican view?" What the heck do you think "the Republican view" is, anyway? |
||||
|
HP says
Here's part of the answer: http://mises.org/story/2318 and Re: Chomsky - if you Google "Chomsky", how many references to linguistics do you find relative to left wing radical politics? |
||||
|
| <HeartPrayer>
|
You "know" that? That�s amazing, because that�s not what I said... nor is it what I am "meaning to imply". (If that�s what you thought, I understand your question about "trolling".) Read my post again. I spoke about "higher education", not intelligence, not "smart". Nowhere have I equated the two. Some of the smartest people I know attended the School of Life. By "Republican view" I mean the tendency to vote Republican, sharing the views of political candidates with the word "Republican" beside their name on the ballot. Ain�t nuthin� mystical about it. Was it not you who made a huge point that the said demographic votes overwhelmingly Democrat, and identifies themselves as Democrat in surveys? How is this relevant to the point I made above about my linguistic professor? As recently as yesterday, I was refreshing my memory of Noam Chomsky�s linguistic theories. Perhaps I used the "wrong" search words, but I did not see a single reference to "left wing radical politics" in either the links I got as top hits or the texts that I read. It seems that he�s not mixing the two -- and the people writing about (and even critiquing) his considerable contributions to Linguistics, are as capable as my own professor of focusing on just the one. |
||
|
I thought a point he made early on was insightful:
People's reasons for voting are primarily visceral, with the rationalization added afterwards. |
||||
|
| <HeartPrayer>
|
Excellent point! Which explains why issues have so little to do with the election.
|
||
|
That's the whole point of the article, really, is that people vote their values more than anything else. That "visceral" sense Derek alluded to is where values are rooted. That's the part Dems haven't been "getting," and that's what the author is pointing out. Blue-collar America isn't completely disinterested in issues, but they're more tuned in to the values they hear candidates projecting. After all, how a candidate works with issues will be influenced by his/her values more than anything.
The culture "wars" in the U.S. signal a values divide. Note, however, that's it's a peaceful war, and I'd maintain, a necessary one. |
||||
|
| <HeartPrayer>
|
I think you�re right about many aspects of that.
But I�m not sure I would equate "visceral" with "values". I see the first as (in many cases) much more primitive. |
||
|
HP: re: Chomsky...I misread your earlier reference; my bad...
----- Phil But it's getting uglier, IMO! |
||||
|
| <HeartPrayer>
|
In my opinion the "values war" has been particularly ugly during the last decade or so, as the group steering the country has taken it on an aggressive (and regrettable) turn to the right.
I really do think the world would have been a better place without two terms of Dick Cheney (and George W. Bush). |
||
|
Just can't give up bashing Bush/Cheney, can you, HP?
I don't know . . . the values war have been raging for years and has always had a rough side. It was pretty bad during Bush/Kerry, and always intensifies before major elections. Still, no vicious mobs, no burning buildings, not even a "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" squad out. Seems the usual posturing, spinning and demagoguing of issues by both sides. |
||||
|
| <HeartPrayer>
|
.
�Let's see, the Republican Party, or my eternal soul?" - Retiring Congressman Wayne Gilchrest on why he could not support his party�s candidate, Andy Harris |
||
|
I don't get it. He thought that voting for John McCain would cost him his salvation? That's supposed to be a credible critique?
|
||||
|
And I thought that voting for Obama would cost me my salvation.
(another one of Katy's Quips) |
||||
|
| <HeartPrayer>
|
Who said anything about McCain.
Wayne Gilchrest didn�t, and neither did I. He was pressured by the Republican Party and declined to cave in, not being able to back Mr Harris. |
||
|
OK, I missed that, but I still don't get it. After serving for over 16 years as a Republican and benefiting from Republican resources and support, he felt that supporting another Republican would cost him his soul? Is that supposed to be a commentary on the Party, Gilchrest, or Harris?
|
||||
|
| <HeartPrayer>
|
Typical Republican sentiments and fears? I certainly hope not.
This seems to be the wacko fringe; I hope there are few of Congressman Paul Broun�s (Republican, Georgia) ilk. Although judging from the outlandish hostility of Fox News readers� comment, there are more than one might expect. Ouch! |
||
|
| <HeartPrayer>
|
Well, there may be many good reasons to vote Republican.
But clearly there are some out-of-touch priests who feel that voting for Senator Obama was not only illegitimate, but an action that requires penance and is cause for denying them communion. Right... |
||
|
It's not a bad article at all, and the priest hardly seems a wacko. Calling Obama "pro-abortion" isn't fair, however -- he's not for people having abortions. He does, however, have the strongest record on abortion rights of anyone ever elected to the presidency, and has never voted to restrict such rights -- not even in the case of partial-birth abortions or situations where the baby survived a botched abortion.
The general principle for Catholics, as noted in other discussions, is that we ought not be one-issue voters, and that abortion has to be considered along with other human rights issues. If one finds the pro-choice candidate to be a stronger proponent of human rights and social justice "on the whole," then a vote for that candidate may be justified. That was hardly the case with McCain - Obama, however, as I noted here, especially considering the contrast between the two on the issue of abortion. Obama's proposals and plans hold no great ethical advantage over McCain's, and he is not in any way more qualified or prepared to be President than McCain. Therefore, the abortion issue should have been a "tie-breaker" for anyone who properly understands the moral gravity of this issue. That it wasn't so for many Catholics is quite telling, imo, and it wouldn't hurt to encourage a bit of reflection and penance for having contributed to the continuance unrestricted abortion rights in the U.S. (e.g., even excluding parental notification for minors, who aren't allowed to take an aspirin in school without a note from a parent). |
||||
|
| <HeartPrayer>
|
Meanwhile, in the Republican Party...
----------------------------------------- And here are the jolly folks who may soon be running the Republican Party. Enough said! |
||
|
Those satirical songs have been around awhile. As the article notes, the candidate is a friend of Paul Shanklin, the satirist. That hardly signals an official direction of the Republican party. Relax.
|
||||
|
| <HeartPrayer>
|
Signs of grave strategic errors from the RNC
-------------------------------------------------------- No, you�re right; it does not signal an official direction -- merely a lack of good judgement. I can see dozens of minority voters rushing to vote Republican in the next round. What is far more worrisome (for Republicans, mind you, and for the Nation) is that Karl Rove is once again being asked to play intrigue-maker, this time close to Congressional centre stage. Newt Gingrich is only one of many experienced Republicans expressing grave concern at this strategic error. In other words, I don�t think the Democrats need worry about the Republican Party reaching beyond its core base any time soon. |
||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
|
Shalom Place Community
Shalom Place Discussion Groups
General Discussion Forums
Religion and Culture
What Makes People Vote Republican?