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| <AMH>
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This implies that they had tangible assistance from the West, but I am not sure that is true. I think it was part espionage and part assistance from China. Unless you mean that since the US/West developed nuclear weapons first, then it follows that the West helped everyone who currently has nuclear weapons. http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/...stan/nuke/index.html The million dollar question!!! (Or the 723,510 EUR or 5,682,400 NOK question). Maybe we should ask Kristin Halvorsen! � Norwegian Left Courts Pakistani Vote� http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/143 |
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| <HeartPrayer>
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Well, I saw a very thorough and convincing report (I believe it was on "60 Minutes") abut the role the West played in Pakistan becoming a nuclear power. It detailed companies involved, and the non-intervention of the Western intelligence community when warned of what was taking place.
Norway has a significant Pakistani minority, and as the article mentions, especially in Oslo. Yesterday, the party of Kristin Halvorsen, Norway�s current Finance Minister, suffered a significant setback in the municipal and county elections. Her predecessor in this cabinet job, by the way, was an openly gay representative from the Conservative party. Both of them highly respected. And even the business community believes Halvorsen, a Socialist, has done an excellent job. So much for digression. * * * Back to Pakistan. What are your thoughts? I am not quite able to read between the lines... ...except I concur that you deserve NOK 5,682,400 if you come up with a particularly brilliant answer. |
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| <HeartPrayer>
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By the way, The Brussels Journal seems to have a very strange tone in some of its other articles. And the adverts are even worse. I happened to click on one of them (for The American Spectator) and was shocked by some of the crackpot stuff I read.
Anyways, back to Pakistan... |
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| <AMH>
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Before I give you my obviously valuable conservopinion:
"Former Pakistani PM Sharif Appeals Expulsion to Saudi Arabia " http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296385,00.html
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| <AMH>
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Off thread but -
The Brussels Journal is one of the few Euro blogs that is actually conservative and generally pro-American. I read it from time to time, and though I don't agree with everything they say, I find it "refreshing". I also think that it is a reaction to what is cited in this article by Bret Stephens: http://www.opinionjournal.com/wsj/?id=110008853
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| <AMH>
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Back to Pakistan - major issues, with no easy answers. FrontPage Mag had a good symposium on this a while back -
http://frontpagemagazine.com/A...4-AA2E-E879D9EEBFF0} |
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"The Second Coup-Pakistan is on the verge of destabilization"
http://www.weeklystandard.com/...000/014/315gqklr.asp
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A short note by VDHanson on the mess in Pakistan:
http://corner.nationalreview.c...MWZiZWM0YTY5YzYzYjU= |
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This is a very serious situation! If Pakistan goes the way of militant Islam, that would be awful!
Bush urges elections: - http://www.reuters.com/article...Crisis/idUSN05316345 |
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| <HeartPrayer>
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Very serious.
And the USA/West seems to be in a double bind here. On the one hand Musharraf may seem the best bet for preventing an Islamic government. On the other, by supporting Musharraf and being so strongly associated with him, the USA/West will reap more ill will from the people, not just in Pakistan, but throughout the region. Many would argue that if the USA/West is indeed serious about democracy in the Middle East, they would actively oppose Musharraf. We don�t of course, quite the contrary. Hence there is a serious risk of the West being seen as hypocritical -- we�ll support democracy, as long as a majority of the people don�t insist on electing a government reflecting Islamic values. This is not an easy one. Personally I am far more worried about Pakistan than Iran, and have been for some time. I think the whole "Iranian threat" is incredibly over-hyped. |
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HP, the main problems with Iran have less to do with nukes (right now) than their support of Hezbollah, Hamas, and insurgents in Iraq. Their influence in the region is huge.
But you're right about democracy. It is a two-edged sword in that a majority can elect an "unsavory" government that can then change all the rules and perpetuate its own existence (e.g., what Chavez is doing in Venezuela). The larger question here (deserving another thread) is why militant Islam has become such a strong force in the Middle East? Their gaining control of the government and military in Pakistan would give them access to nuclear weapons. Bad! Very very bad! |
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From todays NY Times - Benazir Bhutto makes some very pertinent points in her piece:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11...=opinion&oref=slogin
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Comparison's to Iran in 1979:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...ml?hpid=opinionsbox1
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Good articles pointing out relevant parallels.
Unfortunately, I don't think there's much the U.S. can do at this point that will make much difference. One can only hope that moderate influences will prevail. |
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| <HeartPrayer>
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Differences more striking than the parallels
---------------------------------------------------- There is also a key difference that is overlooked... The strength and speed of the uprising against Shah Reza Pahlavi in Iran came as a surprise to Western pundits. Why? Ayatollah Khomenei caught even the sophisticated American intelligence community unaware -- by essentially passing under their radar. How? By going low-tech. According to what I have read, the Ayatollah recorded audio cassettes in his home in exile in France. These were smuggled into Iran by those faithful to him, duplicated, and played in the mosques. The CIA, not having agents in that arena, hadn�t a clue to what was really going on. All the sudden there were a million people in the streets!! For the record, Shah Reza Pahlavi�s great regret is not calling on the armed forces to confront them! After the ouster of the Shah, of course, Ayatollah Khomenei consolidated his power -- at the expense of the moderates. PS. As far as Bhutto and her husband go, I think the most accurate description is corrupt opportunists. For some bizarre reason, the West tends to de-emphasise such pertinent details. Here there truly is a parallel to Iran -- to Rafsanjani and his family. Mistakenly emphasised as a moderate by Western politicians and Western news media (rather than as a thoroughly corrupt politician), he lost to Ahmadinejad. The latter can be accused of many things, but corruption is not one of them. |
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Pakistani police placed opposition leader Benazir Bhutto under house arrest Friday, uncoiling barbed wire in front of her Islamabad home and reportedly rounding up 5,000 of her supporters to block a mass protest against emergency rule.
Bhutto tried twice to leave by car but was blocked by police after a scuffle with her supporters who tried to remove a barricade. The former prime minister had planned to address a rally in nearby Rawalpindi, defying a ban on public gatherings. http://apnews.myway.com/articl...71109/D8SQ50I83.html |
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ISLAMABAD, Pakistan � Pakistan opposition leader Benazir Bhutto, who was placed under house arrest Friday after a tense standoff with police, was free to leave, government officials told FOX News.
Pakistan's police earlier had uncoiled barbed wire in front of her Islamabad villa and reportedly rounded up thousands of her supporters to block a mass protest against President Gen. Pervez Musharraf's emergency rule. � FOX News Exclusive: Greta Van Susteren Speaks With Bhutto Bhutto twice tried to leave in her car, telling police: "Do not raise hands on women. You are Muslims. This is un-Islamic." They responded by blocking her way with an armored vehicle. |
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Here's a pretty good analysis by Mark Steyn regarding the current leadership situation in Pakistan. :
http://www.nysun.com/article/66295
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| <HeartPrayer>
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This is, indeed, problematic. But in the Middle East the primary loyalty is often to the Tribe, and not the Nation-State. We see it in Pakistan, in Afghanistan, and in other countries. As far as I am aware, no Pakistani head-of-state has really tried to exercise sovereignty in the so-called Tribal Areas (Waziristan et al) or try to disarm the "local authorities". They don�t dare. No comparison, of course, but I just had a thought -- I wonder what would happen in the USA if the federal government tried to disarm the militias and fringe groups... |
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This is usually what happens: http://www.answers.com/topic/david-koresh ------------ |
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| <HeartPrayer>
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Was Pakistan really behind it?
------------------------------------ I woke up with a shock today. The main story on the website of Dagbladet.no is that Pakistani intelligence was behind the attack on Hotel Serena. For those who may not remember, this was an assassination attempt on Afghani Hamid Karzai on 27 April, during a military parade. Collateral damage was eight lives, including Dagbladet�s journalisth Carsten Thomassen and an American. At a press conference yesterday, Sayeed Ansari, the spokesman of the Afghani intelligence agency (ISI), claimed that they had proof of a direct link between the assassin and Pakistan�s intelligence service. Proof supposedly includes the assassin�s mobile phone records. Pakistan has yet to respond! Before dismissing the accusation altogether, please remember that ISI were the people who helped bring us Taleban. |
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Very sobering, HP. It will be interesting to see how that unfolds.
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