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Posted Hide Post
And so Russia has attacked Georgia -- an unjust act of aggression, undertaken without U.N. approval and so "illegal," during the Olympic games (to call attention to themselves? -- hey, what was the hurry?).

Where are the organized marchers in Europe and around the world?

And guess which country has already devoted its resources to humanitarian aid?
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<HeartPrayer>
Posted
Forgetting the aggressor in Tbilisi...
-------------------------------------------

Phil, with all due respect, I agree that the Russian reaction is disproportionate and reprehensible.

However, you are totally ignoring the events of August 8th. At the orders of President Mikheiml Saakashvili, the Georgian military initiated an attack on South Ossetia, bombing the capital of Tskhinvali. This deserves far greater focus in Western news media.

Russia was not the initial aggressor in this round.
 
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Posted Hide Post
I agree with HeartPrayer that it is Georgia that initiated the aggressive attacks on the Ossetian peacekeepers. There are always two sides to a story. I keep informed with our news reports, and do check other sources. Pravda is one of these.

http://english.pravda.ru/topic/georgia_ossetia.-603/
 
Posts: 571 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 20 June 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<HeartPrayer>
Posted
Peacekeepers?
I know that�s what the Russians like to call the forces they sent to Sout Ossetia, but I hardly thinks that�s accurate. I have no illusions about their "benevolence". So I don�t know if your post is meant tongue-in-cheek. Wink

What Georgia did do, however was to send its military into Tskhinvali and bomb the city, which resulted in considerable civilian casualties. At present we don�t know exactly how many.

And let me correct the date I gave: it was the 7th of August, not the 8th.

Thank God Georgia was not a NATO member at the time, or this crisis might be even greater. The US government has wisely abstained from getting more heavily involved in Saakashvili�s exceedingly dangerous game.

Thanks for the link, Freebird. I�ve never see the Russian edition of Pravda. Having now done so, I have great trepidation about the rhetoric therein. It reminds me far too much of some of the diatribes in the National Review.
 
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Posted Hide Post
Here's an interesting piece from Charles Krauthammer of the National Review. Wink
- http://article.nationalreview....YWU0ZWUxMDA1NzVhZTE=

quote:
The real objective is the Finlandization of Georgia through the removal of President Mikheil Saakashvili and his replacement by a Russian puppet.

Which explains Putin stopping the Russian army (for now) short of Tbilisi. What everyone overlooks in the cease-fire terms is that all future steps � troop withdrawals, territorial arrangements, peacekeeping forces � will have to be negotiated between Russia and Georgia. But Russia says it will not talk to Saakashvili. Thus regime change becomes the first requirement for any movement on any front. This will be Putin�s refrain in the coming days. He is counting on Europe to pressure Saakashvili to resign and/or flee to �give peace a chance.�

The Finlandization of Georgia would give Russia control of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which is the only significant European-bound route for Caspian Sea oil and gas that does not go through Russia. Pipelines are the economic lifelines of such former Soviet republics as Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan that live off energy exports. Moscow would become master of the Caspian basin.
Even dovish types like Barack Obama recognize what's really going on:
quote:
For many months, I have warned that there needs to be active international engagement to peacefully address the disputes over South Ossetia and Abkhazia, including a high-level and neutral international mediator, and a genuine international peacekeeping force - not simply Russian troops.

No matter how this conflict started, Russia has escalated it well beyond the dispute over South Ossetia and invaded another country. Russia has escalated its military campaign through strategic bombing and the movement of its ground forces into the heart of Georgia. There is no possible justification for these attacks.
- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...onflic_n_118276.html


- re Pravda. I've just given it a quick look and find it to be mostly a propaganda instrument. Not much critical reflection going on, there.
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
Moscow now intimidates Poland:

quote:
Poland and the United States on Thursday signed a deal for Poland to accept a missile interceptor base as part of a system the United States says is aimed at blocking attacks by rogue nations. Moscow, however, feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force.

"Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike�100 percent," Nogovitsyn, the deputy chief of staff, was quoted as saying.
- http://www.breitbart.com/artic...R7IG1&show_article=1

I'm not following why a missile defense system in Poland bothers Russia so much, especially if they have no intention of attacking Poland. Why should this expose them to a strike -- 100%?
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<HeartPrayer>
Posted
Didn�t the USA actually "break" a well-established treaty with the Soviet Union / Russia, when it initiated its Star Wars defense system?

Why should this expose them to a strike?

Well, if my memory serves me right, the whole premise with that such a defense system makes it more possible for one side to launch a First Strike, while defending against the retaliatory strike.

And that upsets the balance. It shortens the time response, and -- some have argued -- actually raises the possibility of a nuclear war.

It is wise to examine the individual instances where missiles have almost been launched in the last 5 decades. It�s pretty frightening, indeed.
 
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Posted Hide Post
Of course, it's always the fault of the USA! Roll Eyes

Last time I read up on these matters, Poland was a member of NATO and they participate in NATO defense strategies, including, here, taking a stand against the threat of Iran firing missiles on Europe (a distinct possibility). Also, Russia still has plenty of armed nukes, and who knows when/if some nut will fire one off? Of course, if they to get paranoid and believe that NATO has designs for a first-strike nuclear attack against them, well what can one say? Paranoia is paranoia!

- - -

No comments on the Russian invasion of Georgia? Anyone? It's hardly possible to defend their behavior, at this point.
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<HeartPrayer>
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Phil:
Of course, it's always the fault of the USA! Roll Eyes
You�re not responding to my post.
There was a treaty in place, and there was a very good reason for that treaty.
 
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quote:
Didn�t the USA actually "break" a well-established treaty with the Soviet Union / Russia, when it initiated its Star Wars defense system?
No - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...istic_Missile_Treaty

quote:
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union in December 1991 the status of the treaty became unclear, debated by members of Congress and professors of law, Succession of the ABM Treaty,State Succession and the Legal Status of the ABM Treaty, and Miron-Feith Memorandum. In 1997, a memorandum of understanding[4] between the US and four of the former USSR states was signed and subject to ratification by each signatory, however it was not presented to the US Senate for advice and consent by Bill Clinton.

On December 13, 2001, George W. Bush gave Russia notice of the United States' withdrawal from the treaty, in accordance with the clause that requires six months notice before terminating the pact. This was the first time in recent history the United States has withdrawn from a major international arms treaty. This led to the eventual creation of the Missile Defense Agency
 
Posts: 417 | Registered: 17 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
No comments on the Russian invasion of Georgia
There has been a lot of stuff written on it so far in the media, web, etc. Though it is clearly a disproportionate use of force by the Russians, I agree with the point of view that suggests the US should rethink its position and commitments in this part of the world. We should not be dragged into a local geo conflict with Russia because we have a small non strategic ally fussing with them. This is in Russia's back yard, and they a long history of being paranoid (for good reason) about encroachment of their "borders." This has all the earmarks of something could get of control in a hurry. And though we were looking for support in Iraq, we should not get entangled in this type of commitment with Georgia. The US has never looked favorably on this type of thing in our hemisphere; what would we do if the Russians started to put missiles in Cuba and Venezuela, training their troops, supplying weapons on a larger scale, etc?

Frankly, the Europeans, including our lukewarm NATO allies, who are quick to criticize the US for just about everything, should handle this. They have more at stake, from energy security to military issues. At the end of the Cold War, there was talk in Europe of disbanding NATO, anyway. When the Russians started flying bomber patrols and flexing, all of sudden NATO looked pretty good again. We should look hard at all of the post-WWII organizations, most of which we were the main drivers of, and which have become institutionalized in there anti-US bias, and re evaluate all of our obligations.
 
Posts: 417 | Registered: 17 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
AMH, you noted: This is in Russia's back yard, and they a long history of being paranoid (for good reason) about encroachment of their "borders."

Yes, historically that's true, but not in the last century, where they've been the ones who've not only encroached, but annexed, conquered, etc. That's probably more in Poland's memory than Napoleon's march on Moscow.

The US has never looked favorably on this type of thing in our hemisphere; what would we do if the Russians started to put missiles in Cuba and Venezuela, training their troops, supplying weapons on a larger scale, etc?

As you recall, they did all these things, and we took a stand. Nevertheless, they helped prop up Cuba until the end of the empire, and we allowed it. Not much to do about Venezuela, either.

Frankly, the Europeans, including our lukewarm NATO allies, who are quick to criticize the US for just about everything, should handle this. They have more at stake, from energy security to military issues.

I agree completely. Problem is, who among our European allies can help Poland develop a missile shield? Provide them with advanced weaponry?

I don't think NATO is worried about Russia attacking old or new Europe as I don't think the Russians could succeed in doing so, at any rate. The errant firing off of a nuke, however, isn't so far-fetched, and neither is a missile attack from Iran:
- see http://www.verbix.com/imag/map_indoeuropean.gif
and: http://www.iht.com/articles/20...3/15/news/shield.php
quote:
Obering said that Poland, a staunch ally of the United States, and the Czech Republic, had been chosen after an analysis of the possible missile trajectories from Iran to Europe and from Iran to the United States. Germany was considered, he said, but Poland and the Czech Republic provided the best interceptor and radar coverage of the trajectories.
Poland sits right between Iran and Norway. Seems the Norwegians should be happy to have Poland providing a missile shield. Wink

If Russia doesn't like the missile shield, then they can work with NATO to pressure Iran to cease-and-desist from developing WMD and long-range missiles. I don't see much sign of that, however.

Of course, much of the impetus for missile shields and the like could well be coming from the military-industrial process. Where's "Spoonboy" when you need him. Razzer
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
This is in Russia's back yard, and they a long history of being paranoid (for good reason) about encroachment of their "borders."
Phil stated,
quote:
Yes, historically that's true, but not in the last century, where they've been the ones who've not only encroached, but annexed, conquered, etc. That's probably more in Poland's memory than Napoleon's march on Moscow.
I agree that the Russians have been aggressive in the past, but let's not forget about WWII, where they lost 20MM soldiers and civilians fighting the Germans, who invaded the Soviet Union after signing off on a non-aggression pact. Stalin clearly was interested in a territorial buffer post WWII, in addition to whatever imperial goals he may have had.

quote:
As you recall, they did all these things, and we took a stand. Nevertheless, they helped prop up Cuba until the end of the empire, and we allowed it. Not much to do about Venezuela, either.
-Since the dissolution of the USSR, we have been partnering, mostly for good reasons, with most of the old Eastern bloc/Warsaw Pact members, even encouraging NATO membership. Imagine if this was the other way around, where Russia would be encouraging Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, El Salvador, etc, to formally ally themselves with Russia. What if Russia said to Mexico we�ll support you as you assert your �rightful� territorial claims and reclaim the American Southwest?

My point is this � what are we trying to do and what do we have to gain by provoking the Russians? I know that US policy has been a policy of containing Russia, just as they have tried to do to the US, but this seems to be over the top.

Latest headline - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407262,00.html

Russia sees this as a threat � it doesn�t matter if we think that they are irrational and have nothing to fear. If this keeps going, it will turn into a no turning back scenario.

If Spoonboy is following any of this, he is already digging his bunker somewhere in the Rocky Mountains! Wink
 
Posts: 417 | Registered: 17 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
Here's an article from AmCon that makes similar points:

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2008/aug/25/00013

quote:
After Georgia falls, Ukraine would become the next target for Russia�s belligerence. And before you know it, the new Russian petro-empire would be dominating Eurasia, recreating the old Soviet Union�with Russian nationalism and the Eastern Orthodox Church replacing Communism as ideological glue�and forcing Western Europe, dependent economically on Russia�s energy resources, to submit to Moscow�s dictates. Hence the need for America to draw the line at the border between Georgia and Russia.

But Americans who read a bit closer have to conclude that the conflict doesn�t involve core U.S. strategic and economic interests and that the moral and historical claims being raised by the warring sides are at best ambiguous. In fact, as seen from Moscow, it�s the U.S. that has reneged on commitments it made at the end of the Cold War. In the Kremlin�s view, America has been implementing an aggressive military strategy aimed at weakening Russia by extending NATO to its borders, installing U.S. antiballistic missiles in Poland and the Czech Republic, and obliterating a former ally in the Balkans while strengthening rising anti-Russian forces in Ukraine and the Caucasus, areas that were traditionally seen by Russia as part of its sphere of influence.

Wouldn�t Americans see Russian policy as hostile if Moscow invited Venezuela, Bolivia, and Ecuador to join the military pact of the Shanghai Treaty Organization? Or encouraged a Russian-government-backed version of the National Endowment for Democracy to assist anti-American political parties in activities against pro-American governments in Mexico, Panama, and Costa Rica? Or installed Russian antiballistic missiles in Cuba? Wouldn�t U.S. troops be landing in Panama if a pro-Russian government in Bogota, clamoring to join the STO, tried to regain control of Panama, which in a move backed by the U.S. seceded from Colombia in 1903 and became an American protectorate?

 
Posts: 417 | Registered: 17 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
AMH, I see your points about Russia's justified paranoia, but the issue with Poland pertains to a missile defense program. I'm not understanding why that's a provocation. Russia's response to this is to threaten Poland with an increased likelihood of nuclear attack.
- http://www.thenational.ae/arti...NG/219177610/-1/NEWS

Surely Russia must see how their behavior in Georgia doesn't exactly discourage the Poles from wanting more defenses.

Re. the example of Mexico, Panama, etc. going Russia's way had we lost the cold war . . . they likely wouldn't have been democracies as are Eastern European countries, but satellites of the USSR. Huge difference. Russia has to learn to get along with these new democratic governments and not threaten them with a nuclear attack because they plan to put up a missile defense shield which could be used to fend of a variety of foes.
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
VDH's take on where this is going:

http://www.jewishworldreview.c...08/hanson081408.php3

quote:
.... to the extent globalism worked, it followed from three unspoken assumptions:


First, the U.S. economy would keep importing goods from abroad to drive international economic growth.

Second, the U.S. military would keep the sea-lanes open, and trade and travel protected. After the past destruction of fascism and global communism, the Americans, as global sheriff, would continue to deal with the occasional menace like a Muammar al-Gaddafi, Slobodan Milosevic, Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong-il or the Taliban.

Third, America would ignore ankle-biting allies and remain engaged with the world � like a good, nurturing mom who at times must put up with the petulance of dependent teenagers.
and,
quote:
Meanwhile, the hypocrisy becomes harder to take. After all, it is easy for self-appointed global moralists to complain that terrorists don't enjoy Miranda rights at Guantanamo, but it would be hard to do much about the Russian military invading Georgia's democracy and bombing its cities.
and this, which is a "be careful what you wish for" warning to the Left and elite liberals:

quote:
So, what a richer but more critical world has forgotten is that in large part America was the model, not the villain � and that postwar globalization was always a form of engaged Americanization that enriched and protected billions

Yet globalization, in all its manifestations, will run out of steam the moment we tire of fueling it, as the world returns instead to the mindset of the 1930s � with protectionist tariffs; weak, disarmed democracies; an isolationist America; predatory dictatorships; and a demoralized gloom-and-doom Western elite.

If America adopts the protectionist trade policies of Japan or China, global profits plummet. If our armed forces follow the European lead of demilitarization and inaction, rogue states advance. If we were to treat the environment as do China and India, the world would become quickly a lost cause.

If we flee Iraq and call off the war on terror, Islamic jihadists will regroup, not disband. And when the Russians attack the next democracy, they won't listen to the United Nations, the European Union or Michael Moore.

Brace yourself � we may be on our way back to an old world, where the strong do as they will, and the weak suffer as they must.
 
Posts: 417 | Registered: 17 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
I'm not understanding why that's a provocation
I just think the Russians see this differently than we do. They may also be playing a dangerous game of "chicken" with us, thinking, "what are they going to do, go to a real shooting war over this?"
 
Posts: 417 | Registered: 17 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Russia has to learn to get along with these new democratic governments and not threaten them with a nuclear attack because they plan to put up a missile defense shield which could be used to fend of a variety of foes.
Wishful thinking - in fact, they don't. Is the US/NATO really going to go to war over Georgia, or if Russia invades Ukraine? WWII started when Britain and France went to war with Germany over Poland, and it ended being controlled by the Soviets.
 
Posts: 417 | Registered: 17 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
"Russia threatens new confrontation over Georgian provinces "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...rgian-provinces.html
 
Posts: 417 | Registered: 17 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
http://online.wsj.com/article/..._review_and_outlooks

quote:
Empty words." That's how Moscow glibly dismissed NATO's criticism yesterday of Russia's continued occupation of Georgia. The Russians may be bullies, but like all bullies they know weakness when they see it.

The most NATO ministers could muster at their meeting in Brussels was a statement that they "cannot continue with business as usual" with Russia. There was no move to fast-track Georgia's bid to join NATO, nor a pledge to help the battered democracy rebuild its defenses
 
Posts: 417 | Registered: 17 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<HeartPrayer>
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AMH v2.0:
quote:
Didn�t the USA actually "break" a well-established treaty with the Soviet Union / Russia, when it initiated its Star Wars defense system?
No - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...istic_Missile_Treaty

quote:
On December 13, 2001, George W. Bush gave Russia notice of the United States' withdrawal from the treaty, in accordance with the clause that requires six months notice before terminating the pact. This was the first time in recent history the United States has withdrawn from a major international arms treaty. This led to the eventual creation of the Missile Defense Agency
Which is exactly what I meant.
The rest is technicalities and polemics.

As you point out, the Russians are paranoid for good reason.
Neither the USA nor Norway, nor any other European country lost 20,000,000 in World War II.

We can hardly expect them to see these issues through our eyes.

And somehow I think the tune would be very different if the Russians were installing their own early missile warning system in, say, the Bahamas and Mexico -- even if it were to protect against supposed rogue states (Venezuela?).


NOTEI am not really criticising US behaviour here. What I am trying to do is cast light on events in Georgia, and the Russian perspective. Believe me, I hardly have any sympathy with the recent Russian military actions. Nor do I have any illusions about Russian "benevelonce" or about who is the bad guy here.

I will, however, repeat my initial point: Mikheil Saakashvili is a very dangerous man. His military adventure in Souther Ossetia was designed to provoke, and he was the first aggressor. Saakashvili is playing with fire -- and NATO should be very wary, indeed.

Fortunately so far, both NATO and the Bush Administration has shown the requisite wisdom, and abstained from playing Saakashvili�s game.

So if anything, I am commending the USA.
 
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Posted Hide Post
RE: treaty - I included the part about the dissolution of the Soviet Union specifically, because that was the real question regarding the treaty. Remember that this was right after 9/11, where all sorts of things were discussed, including missile defense against rogue states.

Also, during the 1990's, there was real hope for partnering with Russia in a number of areas, including the military.

I also think this type of saber rattling is unnecessary and a bit troubling. It doesn't take much to push these things too far, and a resurgent Russia doesn't feel the need to back down too quickly.
 
Posts: 417 | Registered: 17 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
Dick Morris's take on the Russia-Georgia conflict:
http://www.dickmorris.com/blog...rgia-the-real-story/

quote:
The corporatist leadership of Russia, entirely dependent on oil and gas revenues for its economic viability, has an essential stake in promoting global instability. A stable world encourages a drop in oil prices. It is no coincidence that Russia is at the core of the two major threats to world stability: Iran and the invasion of Georgia. Worried by a major drop in oil prices, creating severe economic problems for Russia, the Kremlin has a cosmic interest in promoting turbulence whenever and wherever it can.

Georgia represents the last pro-Western bridge to bring oil and gas from the central Asian former Soviet states to t he west. Three times as much oil flows over rail tracks on the bridge near Gori which Russian aircraft destroyed as through pipelines from Russia.

Bush�s response to the Georgia attack has been prompt and skillful. Introducing American troops into Georgia on a humanitarian mission makes it clear to Russia and to the Georgian people that the United States will not abandon its ally, but it does so in a way that deters further Russian moves.

 
Posts: 417 | Registered: 17 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
Good pieces by VDH and Morris, AMH. I had cited one above by Krauthammer which made similar points. Good to see that the Bush admin. is getting some degree of credit for initiating a significant, but restrained response.

HP noted: I will, however, repeat my initial point: Mikheil Saakashvili is a very dangerous man. His military adventure in Souther Ossetia was designed to provoke, and he was the first aggressor. Saakashvili is playing with fire -- and NATO should be very wary, indeed.

Why do you say he's a dangerous man? You said the same thing elsewhere about France's President Sarkozky, who's been instrumental in trying to negotiate a cease fire between Russia and Georgia. Saakashvili was elected President of Georgia and can presumably lose the next election of the Georgians don't want him. He's made efforts to get along with Russia, so it's not as though he's been "asking for it."

BTW, does anyone really know how this "latest" got started. Putin accused Georgia of conducting genocide operations against S. Ossetia (this has been refuted by a number of agencies) while the world was watching the Olympics, and used this as a pretext for sending in the troops. However:

quote:
Writing for Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Brian Whitmore said: "Before the guns of August, there were the manoeuvres of July.

"Less than one month before Russia's armed forces entered Georgia on Aug 8, they held massive military training exercises in the North Caucasus involving 8,000 servicemen and 700 pieces of military hardware.

"At centre stage in those manoeuvres - which took place in the second half of July, not far from Georgia's border - was Russia's 58th Army, the very unit that would later play a key role in the incursion.

"Those exercises are just one link in a chain of incidents suggesting that Russia's military action in Georgia was planned months in advance, awaiting only an appropriate pretext to act."
- http://www.thenational.ae/arti...NG/219177610/-1/NEWS

This "pretext" to act. . . who instigated it? What role did Russia play in S. Ossetia to agitate the Georgians? And whatever the initial situation, why would Russia move beyond the area of conflict deep into Georgia? I think the articles posted by AMH above provide good insight into this.
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<HeartPrayer>
Posted
Why Saakashvili is a dangerous man
---------------------------------------------

quote:
Originally posted by Phil:
HP noted: I will, however, repeat my initial point: Mikheil Saakashvili is a very dangerous man. His military adventure in Souther Ossetia was designed to provoke, and he was the first aggressor. Saakashvili is playing with fire -- and NATO should be very wary, indeed.

Why do you say he's a dangerous man?

quote:
Writing for Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Brian Whitmore said:
"...suggesting that Russia's military action in Georgia was planned months in advance, awaiting only an appropriate pretext to act."
I have no doubt that a contingent plan of Russian intervention in Southern Ossetia, with advances into Georgia, was drawn up months in advance. (I am sure that there are contingent plans for Western action against Iran as well. That is the job of military planners! And, NO, I am not equating the two.)

Let there be no illusions about Russian benevolence. I certainly have none. It�s obvious they were waiting for an excuse!

Mikheil Saakashvili is a dangerous man because he gambled and gave them precisely the excuse they. needed. There would have been no Russian incursion if Saakashvili had not ordered Georgian military into the capital of this autonomous province, killing Russians and Southern Ossetians in the process.

Moreover, form a Western perspective as well as a Russian one, Saakashvili should be considered a dangerous man because he tried to draw NATO, and the USA in particular, into the conflict -- thus risking a very dangerous escalation.

The Bush Administration and NATO have wisely desisted from from becoming entangled in this game, as I mentioned above.
 
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