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Click here to access the web page with the presentation.

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Reflect and Discuss

1. What do you think about these eight practices in general? Don�t get too involved in discussing any in particular since we�ll be treating them individually in other threads.

2. Obviously, one could practice all these disciplines except prayer outside a religious context, and even on that point, there are non-religious meditation practices that could be used instead.. What (to you), then, is the religious value of these practices?

3. What happens to one�s religious commitment and growth in faith if these disciplines are not practiced? Personal sharing on this point is welcomed.
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Oh...I like all of these and look forward to exploring each one deeper in other threads!

The religious value would definitely be how they affect my ongoing relationship with God. He is the center of my world so these enhance that connection.

I think that probably our religious commitment and growth in faith becomes stagnant and ineffectual in our daily lives when we neglect the practices you list here. For myself, I have come to see that I absolutely need these things otherwise I drift. By drifting I mean that less important aspects of life start to affect my over all well being and relationship with not only my family, but the world around me in general.

On to the other threads! Big Grin

God bless,
Terri
 
Posts: 609 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 27 April 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by John Shearman:
[qb]2. Obviously, one could practice all these disciplines except prayer outside a religious context, and even on that point, there are non-religious meditation practices that could be used instead.. What (to you), then, is the religious value of these practices?[/qb]
Whoops! Didn't mean to post without my reply. I'll get the hang of the system yet.

To me "being religious" means that I actually do exercise my faith. That doesn't happen automatically, especially for those of us who are
"religious professionals." One may be theologically trained and liturgically attentive, but that can be done something like a surgeon operating on an infected toe. It is a learned skill rather than an exercise of one's own faith.
That has happened to me more times than I care to recall.

The religious value of contemplative prayer is that it does bring us to a greater consciousness of God in our lives and in the world around us.
This spiritual consciousness needs to develop beyond the specific practices so that everything in our lives becomes an expression of our faith. That is what I see when I try to imagine what Jesus was like from day to day in his earthly life. That too is what I think Paul meant when he spoke of "Christ in you."
the proposed practices themselves
 
Posts: 25 | Location: Oakville, ON Canada | Registered: 14 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm looking forward to going through all these topics on practices. Just looking down the list I can see how each one is necessary to maintain a contmeplative attitude.

I like the comments jk and John made. I agree with jk about 'drifting' without committment to these qualities.

I can definitely relate to John's observation that one can 'be religious', like a skill, without actually exercising faith. It is so easy to fall into that mode when you're tired or discouraged or too busy to be authentic. At that time it is easy to fall back on the 'jargon' and motions of living the faith. I have done it; and I have been 'ministered to' from someone doing it that way. I have experienced, though, times when I knew I was just 'going through the motions' and God in His infinite mercy still supported the action and used me as a channel to help someone. It brings me to a new sense of gratitude of His unbounded love, a sincere sorrow and desire to amend my ways. As with all failings in the spiritual life which are only temporary and come out of simple, weak humanness the lessons learned can be more powerful than when we feel 'successful'. The scripture from one of Paul's letters about 'in weakness I am strong' defines my journey, I think.

I read something from somewhere that said we will learn what we need to 'by law, or by grace'. By grace is easier, and I prefer to leave the space for God's grace to work these changes in me. Contmeplative practice creates that space. Those times when I fail, I learn by law.
 
Posts: 6 | Location: Wichita | Registered: 15 November 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I read something from somewhere that said we will learn what we need to 'by law, or by grace'. By grace is easier, and I prefer to leave the space for God's grace to work these changes in me. Contmeplative practice creates that space. Those times when I fail, I learn by law.
So EARLY on and I've ALREADY gotten my money's worth! Thanks, mka! Smiler

pax, amor et bonum,
jb
 
Posts: 2881 | Registered: 25 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I second that, johnboy! Very good sharing indeed!

John, I've deleted your wayward post. No problem. You should be able to go back and Edit your own posts as well--just a note for all of you to remember. It's one of the icons above a post you've made.

From John S. The religious value of contemplative prayer is that it does bring us to a greater consciousness of God in our lives and in the world around us.

I wish I had used that in advertising this forum! Wink
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't know where to begin....

I really liked the part Phil said about the manner you go about satisfying your needs results in a state of selfish/seperate/fragmented/fear versus loving/united/whole/fearless state. In my mind,I hear God is Love. Love is God. Love and God are One. Any barriers, or seperateness that exists within me, keeps me fragmented and I long for wholeness. The 8 skills point out how to live a life of wholeness that break down divisions between yourself, others and God. It also enfleshes out the two great commandments of Love of God and Love of Neighbor as yourself.
I have practiced parts of all of these, but i know it is a continual process. You can always go back and do it at a higher level. It's great to know that you willnever stop learning and growing.
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: 22 April 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John, I've deleted your wayward post. No problem. You should be able to go back and Edit your own posts as well--just a note for all of you to remember. It's one of the icons above a post you've made.

From John S. The religious value of contemplative prayer is that it does bring us to a greater consciousness of God in our lives and in the world around us.

I wish I had used that in advertising this forum! Wink [/QB][/QUOTE]

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Thanks for the tip, Phil. As you see on another thread I did it again! I think I know now how to edit my message after hitting the button below.

Be my guest in using that quote in any future notice. It just sprang from the Spirit as I worked at my response.
 
Posts: 25 | Location: Oakville, ON Canada | Registered: 14 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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- transferred from the Introductions thread -

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Originally posted by PG
I am grateful that I too have been called to this life of contemplation even as I am giving shots(!) or talking to patients and basically living a pretty active life.

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Response by John
PG, I would be interested to know how you can contemplate while giving shots and talking to people. Those don't seem to be very contemplative
exercises. In order to meditate creatively, i find that I have to be alone and away from interaction with other people. How do you manage both?

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Response by Anne

John, perhaps we all need to read Phil's topic "D" so we're on the same wavelength as to what is meant by "contemplative practice." It does seem to get kind of confusing. It is my understanding that "living contemplatively" isn't the same as "meditating creatively."

Here is a quote from the reflection found in Phil's topic "D"

"Given this understanding, you can be involved in contemplative practice all the time. It doesn�t really matter where you are or what kind of activity you�re doing, you can always be here now in love to some extent."

Wouldn't that include giving shots?

Anne
 
Posts: 7539 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Contemplative practice, in my own experience, has had less to do with solitude, meditative disciplines or spiritual technologies ...

Okay, I'm going to start over ...

Contemplative practice, in my own experience, has dealt not only with solitude, meditative disciplines or spiritual technologies ... but also a mindful doing of little things with great love and the continuous practice of the presence of God (even if that presence has sometimes been moreso of an abiding absence).

I have thus relied heavily on Brother Lawrence of the Resurrection's Conversations and Letters compiled in The Practice of the Presence of God and also on the life and writings of Therese of Lisieux:
The Autobiography of Saint Therese of Lisieux

Therese's Counsels and Reminiscences

Prayers of Saint Therese

This is not to say that the big Carmelites, Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross, have not also figured prominently in other aspects of my spirituality. I am so grateful that I don't have to choose (as I think, too, of Ignatius, Francis, Thomas Aquinas et al)!

But, directly to the point of contemplative practice, most of my waking hours are not spent in meditation or formal prayer but are indeed, when I am so blessed, spent in mindful wonder, never quite getting over the fact of existence and how extraordinary it is that this flower is or that we are or that we are about any activity whatsoever. This experience is very joy-engendering but also can be fear-instilling, such as can only be overcome by love, a love that is filled with passion, a passion that can be poignantly painful, too. This is very real and difficult to describe.

More concretely, whether in a corporate board meeting or in attendance at a basketball game, I may often move into silent glossolalia even as my discursive mind remains active. Then, when I am afforded the gift of solitude, this same gift of tongues can help move me into nondiscursive worshipful attention.

pax, amor et bonum,
johnboy
 
Posts: 2881 | Registered: 25 August 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was introduced to some of the practices of contemplation through a mindfulness-based chronic pain management course. The most challenging to pain patients was what is here called "honesty", and what we called "acceptance" -- acknowledging reality, including the reality of unbearable pain, and accepting it as our experience instead of fighting, denouncing, and railing against it. Obviously, this was a non-religious introduction to meditation. Of the practices of faith listed here, examen is the one that has revolutionized my life. It is in these brief times that I find my focus if I've lost it, healing for my pain, encouragement in hardship and knowledge that much went well and was filled with God. The other is breath prayer. When I struggle, I seek God for a short Scripture that can undo my struggle, and I breathe that, releasing to Him and receiving from Him.
 
Posts: 10 | Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario | Registered: 15 April 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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